Hi all:
Extremely beginner gardener here. USDA Zone 5a (Southeastern South Dakota, USA). Planning to start small and gradually expand my vegetable gardens. I could use a little advice on converting the two spaces to vegetable gardens. My main questions are:
1) Do these two spaces look like good ones to convert to vegetable gardens? I believe they get plenty of sun.
2) Would you put raised beds in these spaces or use them as is?
3) How would you summarize what I need to do next to get them ready for planting? I have a garden claw---would I basically remove what is still remaining then till it up with the garden claw?
Thanks so much everyone!!
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MellowBigBoy
- Newly Registered
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:32 am
- Location: USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 5a
First off, welcome to the group. I see you are way farther north than this bayou dweller in S.E. Louisiana so your garden growing season will be much different than mine. Not knowing for certain when your weather starts to get nasty as far a freezing temperatures, snow, etc. I'd think your chances of getting things going before they hit is getting short.
If it is too late to plant now, plan on getting things ready for a spring planting by planning your choice of plants to put in. If it were my space, I'd probably use the oval portion for an herb bed with Sweet Basil being the centerpiece since it gets to be a tall, bushy plant and surround that with things like parsley, thyme, oregano, sage since they tend to be shorter plants that spread out near the ground. If you like mint, I'd advise you to plant that in a pot since it will take over an area rather fast.
The long area is where I'd plant things like tomatoes, bell peppers, some bush beans, Swiss Chard, lettuces, maybe some squash. Tomato plants should be staked and I also like to stake my pepper plants too, but the rest can grow on their own.
What you put in there really depends on what you like to eat. Just be aware that big plants need more space to grow.
In the meantime you can clean out the area, turn the soil to see how it is as far as clay, sandy, loamy and go from there.
If you have an area near a fence or want to put up a trellis for things to climb on, cucumbers and pole beans are a great option for that. Cucumbers can grow on the ground, but are space hogs and the fruit can often get damaged sitting directly on the ground. They stay a lot cleaner, less prone to pests and rot if grown on a trellis or fence line.
OK, that's enough to think about for now.
If it is too late to plant now, plan on getting things ready for a spring planting by planning your choice of plants to put in. If it were my space, I'd probably use the oval portion for an herb bed with Sweet Basil being the centerpiece since it gets to be a tall, bushy plant and surround that with things like parsley, thyme, oregano, sage since they tend to be shorter plants that spread out near the ground. If you like mint, I'd advise you to plant that in a pot since it will take over an area rather fast.
The long area is where I'd plant things like tomatoes, bell peppers, some bush beans, Swiss Chard, lettuces, maybe some squash. Tomato plants should be staked and I also like to stake my pepper plants too, but the rest can grow on their own.
What you put in there really depends on what you like to eat. Just be aware that big plants need more space to grow.
In the meantime you can clean out the area, turn the soil to see how it is as far as clay, sandy, loamy and go from there.
If you have an area near a fence or want to put up a trellis for things to climb on, cucumbers and pole beans are a great option for that. Cucumbers can grow on the ground, but are space hogs and the fruit can often get damaged sitting directly on the ground. They stay a lot cleaner, less prone to pests and rot if grown on a trellis or fence line.
OK, that's enough to think about for now.
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rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 25279
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
Very good thoughts from gumbo. I agree, it looks like you have about two months until first frost. Since you haven't even started yet, I would use those two months to get your soil ready. The foundation of a good garden is good soil and you can't fake that.
The small one is raised enough. Personally, I would raise the long bed, just another 6-8 inches or so, just to give you some room to add good soil. My process for that task would be to turn the ground over with a shovel and then chop it up with fork and hoe. Then layer on GOOD topsoil (lots of what is sold as topsoil is terrible), bags of composted manure, finished compost, worm castings etc. Then turn all that under.
Then cover the whole thing with several (ideally six or so) inches of mulch. Not bark mulch, but whatever you have around, shredded paper, sheets of newsprint, cardboard, fall leaves, grass clippings, straw, etc. Water the soil before you lay the mulch down and then water the mulch. That will help start things breaking down. If you have a leaf pile or somewhere where earthworms tend to be and you can throw some earthworms in with your mulch, that would be terrific.
Then all that will just sit there over the fall and winter and by the time your ground unfreezes in the spring time, you can turn it all under and you will have a good start on good rich, fluffy soil.
And start a compost pile! Best thing you can do for your garden. If you aren't familiar with composting, we have a whole Compost section here. It won't help you now, but if you keep composting everything organic that comes your way (doesn't matter if the compost pile freezes in winter, just keep throwing stuff on top of it) in the spring you will have wonderful home made compost to add to your gardens.
The small one is raised enough. Personally, I would raise the long bed, just another 6-8 inches or so, just to give you some room to add good soil. My process for that task would be to turn the ground over with a shovel and then chop it up with fork and hoe. Then layer on GOOD topsoil (lots of what is sold as topsoil is terrible), bags of composted manure, finished compost, worm castings etc. Then turn all that under.
Then cover the whole thing with several (ideally six or so) inches of mulch. Not bark mulch, but whatever you have around, shredded paper, sheets of newsprint, cardboard, fall leaves, grass clippings, straw, etc. Water the soil before you lay the mulch down and then water the mulch. That will help start things breaking down. If you have a leaf pile or somewhere where earthworms tend to be and you can throw some earthworms in with your mulch, that would be terrific.
Then all that will just sit there over the fall and winter and by the time your ground unfreezes in the spring time, you can turn it all under and you will have a good start on good rich, fluffy soil.
And start a compost pile! Best thing you can do for your garden. If you aren't familiar with composting, we have a whole Compost section here. It won't help you now, but if you keep composting everything organic that comes your way (doesn't matter if the compost pile freezes in winter, just keep throwing stuff on top of it) in the spring you will have wonderful home made compost to add to your gardens.
I agree, it is not a time to try to plant anything now. For me it is just too hot, but it is a good time to plan for the next season. The small bed, would be good for herbs, but they can also be put in pots.
I would prefer to have larger beds myself 4 ft wide and 10 ft long in full sun. 2 beds with a narrow 2-3 ft path between them would be better. I would either use the fence or have a trellis on the north end of the bed for vining plants like cucumber, tomatoes, poles beans, peas, and some of the squash.
Instead of a garden claw. I would go with a shovel and double dig the area after you remove all the top growth and weeds.
Work in 4-6 inches of compost and manure. If double digging is too much work, consider renting a tiller and a strong guy to till the area and till in the amendments. While it is nice to have a border, it is optional, you can create a raised bed just by mounding up the soil 6-8 inches. After everything is tilled in, cover it up with a thick layer of straw to keep weeds from growing. I would actually use weed block or cardboard under the straw. In about a month get a soil test from your local extention service and follow the fertilizer recommendations. If you are using organic amendments and fertilizer it will take a while to release anyway. You may be able to plant a winter cover crop and wait until next year to plant your main crop.
Right now is a good time to start your own compost pile.
I would prefer to have larger beds myself 4 ft wide and 10 ft long in full sun. 2 beds with a narrow 2-3 ft path between them would be better. I would either use the fence or have a trellis on the north end of the bed for vining plants like cucumber, tomatoes, poles beans, peas, and some of the squash.
Instead of a garden claw. I would go with a shovel and double dig the area after you remove all the top growth and weeds.
Work in 4-6 inches of compost and manure. If double digging is too much work, consider renting a tiller and a strong guy to till the area and till in the amendments. While it is nice to have a border, it is optional, you can create a raised bed just by mounding up the soil 6-8 inches. After everything is tilled in, cover it up with a thick layer of straw to keep weeds from growing. I would actually use weed block or cardboard under the straw. In about a month get a soil test from your local extention service and follow the fertilizer recommendations. If you are using organic amendments and fertilizer it will take a while to release anyway. You may be able to plant a winter cover crop and wait until next year to plant your main crop.
Right now is a good time to start your own compost pile.
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ID jit
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:00 am
- Location: SE New England: zone twilight or 5b... hard for me to tell some days.
Welcome.
1) start or plan out a compost pile(s) or bin(s).
2) Scrape off the dead stuff on top and stash it for compost "browns".
3) Put down a 2" - 4" layer of what ever aged organic matter you can come up with.
4) Get in there with a fork and and turn it over and break the stuff up.
5) Water it and keep it watered to get as many residual seeds to sprout as possible.
6) Repeat 3, 4 and 5 until you have no more sprouting.
7) Cover with 'worm food' mulch like grass clipping and keep it damp and worm friendly.
Mid to late august, plant green beans, radishes, deer lot feed to scavenge the N and just let it go and turn them in next spring.
While you are doing the 3,4 and 5 cycles, don't hesitate to spread out what ever used coffee grounds, egg shells, used tea leaves and the like you generate on a daily basis.
If you get a boat of weeds, from watering, cover it with a trap for a week, stop watering to kill the sprouts and then start the cycle over.
This might be a good read for you:viewtopic.php?f=4&t=72912
Good luck with it.
1) start or plan out a compost pile(s) or bin(s).
2) Scrape off the dead stuff on top and stash it for compost "browns".
3) Put down a 2" - 4" layer of what ever aged organic matter you can come up with.
4) Get in there with a fork and and turn it over and break the stuff up.
5) Water it and keep it watered to get as many residual seeds to sprout as possible.
6) Repeat 3, 4 and 5 until you have no more sprouting.
7) Cover with 'worm food' mulch like grass clipping and keep it damp and worm friendly.
Mid to late august, plant green beans, radishes, deer lot feed to scavenge the N and just let it go and turn them in next spring.While you are doing the 3,4 and 5 cycles, don't hesitate to spread out what ever used coffee grounds, egg shells, used tea leaves and the like you generate on a daily basis.
If you get a boat of weeds, from watering, cover it with a trap for a week, stop watering to kill the sprouts and then start the cycle over.
This might be a good read for you:viewtopic.php?f=4&t=72912
Good luck with it.
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jal_ut
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 7447
- Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:20 pm
- Location: Northern Utah Zone 5
Hmmmm.......
(1) Yes, those spaces would grow veggies.
(2) Use them as is.
(3)You want to grow something this season? I suggest just rip out any green stuff and poke in a few seeds of things that come on fast in warm weather. In that smaller area push in about a dozen cucumber seeds. In the larger area push in 5 crockneck and 5 zucchini seeds.
I would not be taking the shovel to it at this point, just pull out the green stuff and poke in some seeds. The soil will need to be damp, I don't have a clue what your local weather is like but here in high dry Utah if we want to grow anything we need to irrigate. Have fun!
(1) Yes, those spaces would grow veggies.
(2) Use them as is.
(3)You want to grow something this season? I suggest just rip out any green stuff and poke in a few seeds of things that come on fast in warm weather. In that smaller area push in about a dozen cucumber seeds. In the larger area push in 5 crockneck and 5 zucchini seeds.
I would not be taking the shovel to it at this point, just pull out the green stuff and poke in some seeds. The soil will need to be damp, I don't have a clue what your local weather is like but here in high dry Utah if we want to grow anything we need to irrigate. Have fun!
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ID jit
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:00 am
- Location: SE New England: zone twilight or 5b... hard for me to tell some days.
Had 2 ideas at work today.
If you can gather the materials, start a good sized compost pile at one end of to large rectangle and every few days turn it over working toward the other end of the area, then work it back again. Remember to keep it damp like a rung out sponge.
viewforum.php?f=35
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=29022
[URL]viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9089[/IRl]
The small oval looks like it would be good for a hugelkultur type bed.
If you can gather the materials, start a good sized compost pile at one end of to large rectangle and every few days turn it over working toward the other end of the area, then work it back again. Remember to keep it damp like a rung out sponge.
viewforum.php?f=35
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=29022
[URL]viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9089[/IRl]
The small oval looks like it would be good for a hugelkultur type bed.
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ButterflyLady29
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- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:12 pm
- Location: central Ohio
In a couple weeks you can plant lettuce, spinach, beets, kale, and radishes. Kohlrabi and chard are other crops you can plant now. Dill can be planted now also. Some bush beans will produce a good crop before you get a frost. Peas might make a good fall crop. Even broccoli and cauliflower would have time to mature if you get them started in containers now and plant them in the beds as they outgrow the containers.
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rainbowgardener
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
Honestly Butterfly, I think you are right as far as timing, IF the original poster had good soil. But he clearly doesn't. I have seen the results of just going ahead and planting in terrible soil. It is likely to be very frustrating/ disappointing. Even if you add a lot of fertilizer, you just can't fake good soil.ButterflyLady29 wrote:In a couple weeks you can plant lettuce, spinach, beets, kale, and radishes. Kohlrabi and chard are other crops you can plant now. Dill can be planted now also. Some bush beans will produce a good crop before you get a frost. Peas might make a good fall crop. Even broccoli and cauliflower would have time to mature if you get them started in containers now and plant them in the beds as they outgrow the containers.
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MellowBigBoy
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- Location: USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 5a
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ButterflyLady29
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- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:12 pm
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The op won't know anything about the soil until they get the beds cleaned out and worked up a bit. My point was that they still have time to plant fast growing warm season crops and cool season crops like leafy greens and radishes. Apparently there was something growing in the beds before the op took possession of the property. They might or might not need additional soil, most likely will need some supplemental nutrients and would surely benefit from an addition of compost and/or mulch.
The large one definitely needs a good cleaning.
The large one definitely needs a good cleaning.