Killing Grass prior to starting vegetable Garden

[johnnyf0614]

I'm looking to start a vegetable garden in an area of my yard that currently has grass. I'm looking to have about a 25X25 area made. I was thinking of using a chemical grass killer, then tilling the soil... I won't be planting the veggie's till May. Will the grass killer be of any harm to the plants when I'm planting them in 2 months?

[canuck]

Hey there

I wouldn't use a chemical anywhere that you are going to plant a garden of veggies.....especially if you are going to plant that soon after using it to kill the grass.

I think that if you want to plant this year your best bet is to dig the top layer up by hand or backhoe/tractor.
That is what I did and I have one of the best gardens in my neighbourhood

[opabinia51]

Hericides will only get you into trouble and are detrimental to human as well as animal and plant health. And they don't really work that well anyway.

The healthy and sure fire way to get rid of grass is to use either a shovel (the best way) or a rotatiller (works like a trick but, has some drawbacks).

[Midnight Gardener]

I'm looking to start a vegetable garden in an area of my yard that currently has grass. I'm looking to have about a 25X25 area made. I was thinking of using a chemical grass killer, then tilling the soil... I won't be planting the veggie's till May. Will the grass killer be of any harm to the plants when I'm planting them in 2 months?

I would not use any herbicides this year. I would just till the weeds under and then mulch well. If you live in a zone where you will not be having a winter garden then I would use a pre emergent control after you get the last of your veggys out of the garden and before next spring. Pre emergents will keep weeds from sprouting but they can also keep your veggy seeds from sprouting. Make sure you read and understand the directions if you use one and you should have no problems.

https://www.midnightgardener.blogspot.com

[opabinia51]

Tilling is good once but, if you till every year then you will end up ruining your soil. It's best not to till at all but, we do what we need to do. If you have a small garden, just use a shovel and turn everything into the soil.

[Midnight Gardener]

Tilling is good once but, if you till every year then you will end up ruining your soil. It's best not to till at all but, we do what we need to do. If you have a small garden, just use a shovel and turn everything into the soil.

How will the soil be ruined if you till it every year? Isn't this exactly what farmers do?

[Reptilicus]

I heard that if you take newspaper and lay it out on the grass, put some plastic on top of that then cover with some compost over the winter it will kill the grass and you can till the soil up next spring.


I tilled up the grass in a new plot area this year. I'm sure I'll get a lot of weeds

[opabinia51]

The newspaper method does work to some extent but, you will have grass that comes back. If you use newspaper, only use the black and white articles.

What I do is turn the grass into the soil with my shovel and then cover with a layer of unmulched maple leaves, followed by a layer of horse manure then a layer of apple and Linden Tree leaves, and then a layer of chicken manure. Does a fairly good job. You will always have some that come up again and just turn that over.

[dianne99]

Hi Johnny,

If you are trying to kill grass, it is best to know what type it is. If it is a grass type that does not spread by runners (most types), spading it under is fine. If it spreads by runners like zoysa or bermuda, tilling will only make it come back thicker and stronger. And keep in mind, herbicides like Roundup do not work on dormant plants: plants must be actively taking nutrients/moisture from the soil into the roots at the time--that is how herbicide is absorbed--and spreading grasses are probably still dormant in your area until much later. There are pre-emergent herbicides made of corn that will keep annual grass such as crabgrass from sprouting if it is spread early enough.
As for tilling, I am very fortunate to have had one of the preeminent soil scientists in the world as a college soil scientist professor at Kansas State University in the early 1990s. I do not remember much of what he taught, but I do remember the pictures of what tilling does to the soil and I no longer own a tiller... The pictures were more disturbing to me than the ones a doctor showed me of a smoker's lungs (when I still smoked)...and I will never forget. I was further convinced in hands-on lab experiments. I am a perpetual student and organic gardener, and the more I know, the more I know he was absolutely correct.
As far as how most farmers and gardener treat the soil--it is not sustainable. I am a farmer's daughter and granddaughter for many generations. I live on a farm and most of my friends are similar. And this is not just for farmers: if we keep treating the soil the way we do now, our grandchildren will be fighting for food and drinkable water. Our soils are being depleted of nutrients and texture while beneficial organisms and microorganisms are being destroyed with tilling. Our food and soil has only a fraction of the nutrients it did in the past and is almost devoid of micronutrients. Look at the nutrition label of any plant grown conventionally (a list like extension agents have) compared to the same plant grown organically--all nutrients except nitrogen are higher and the list is at least twice as long of the number of nutrients (usually at least 3 times longer) for the organic. I don't know about you, but my body needs everything good I can give it!
Treat your soil like the living organism it is, and it will nourish you more with produce that tastes better than the stuff a farmer grows--sorry Dad! And your grandchildren might still have a little good soil. I apologize if I sound like a lecturer, but not everyone is fortunate to have spent 100s of hours learning these things and I am compelled to keep my promise--to spread Dr. Steve J. Thien's lifework...it's the only thing he ever asked of his students, and he has retired. If your would like to read about it, HD Foth has a book on Amazon, as does Michael J. Singer--I think his book is actually dedicated to Dr. Thien.

[Pepper]

johnnyf0614

Can you use the sod elsewhere on your property? I recently turned up plots for 2 raised beds (small) and transplanted to impede run-off induced erosion.

[pixelphoto]

strong vinegar will kill weeds sprayed on them. Spray it on your grass then lay a clear painters drop cloth (plastic) down to smother and heat up the ground killing the grass and weeds.
its organic and safe for the vegetables later.

You could also lay cardboard down and smother it works well and keeps the weeds and grass down and kills it. Then till up whatever may be left.
I don't use chemicals so thats a few ways I do it.

[moose224466]

I read in a magazine that if you place wet newspaper down for a wille it will kill the grass. then put compost on top. plant your seeds and they will grow through the newspaper. no tilling is needed!!!!!
this artical should help. https://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/2008-04-01/Easy-Garden-Anyone-Can-Make.aspx

[opabinia51]

Works really well actually and not till is definately the way to go. However, no method is food proof and you will have to periodically go through with a shovel and turn over any sod that sprouts.

Avoid use of colour articles. I heard once that the colour inks contain dioxins which, can be harmful to both plant and human health. I could find no peeer reviewed data to back this claim up but, better safe that sorry.

[doccat5]

Moose it sounds like you are talking about Lasagna Gardening a method used by Patricia Lanza. You put down several layers of wet newspaper or cardboard (black and white newspaper and non-waxed cardboard) and follow with layers of peat moss, veggie wastes, spent coffee grounds, compost etc. Just keep layering until you have it at the height you want. Very few weed seeds can germinate in those conditions. You may have to dig out some grasses, my pain is quack grass, but I'm winning. I found some horticultural grade vinegar that works very well.

We also use a tiller, but I use Boskahi "juice" on the beds to replenish any microbes. This is my first year using it and I'm am quite impressed with the results. Try this website for info on Bokashi and EM1.
[url]https://www.eminfo.info/em-origins-etc-space-1.html[/url]
Very interesting stuff.

doccat5

[CWSusan]

I know this thread has been going for a while, but I wanted to add my personal experience.

I've used the wet newspaper and then lazagna method (layering) and it works really well! I covered crab grass, which is almost impossible to destroy. I use only biodegradable and organic products so I would pass on plastic. Although, I have used plastic to kill grass, but then I remove the plastic.

Anway, this is just to say that wet newspaper and layering has been successful for me!

[webmaster]

Welcome to the Helpful Gardener Forum CWSusan. Good tips.