What about squash crossing?

[Taiji]

Here's a question I've been wanting to ask before my warm season starts.

I realize that different types of squash will cross pollinate and if you save the seeds for next year and plant you may get a different type of squash entirely.

But, would this be true also for winter squash crossing with a summer squash, or can you safely plant those two types close together?

[applestar]

Most summer squash like zucchini, yellow squash, pattypan are Cucurbita pepo as are winter squash like Acorn, Delicata, Spaghetti squash, and most field pumpkins -- and they are compatible to cross.

Some pumpkins are C. maxima as are many sweeter winter squash like Hubbard, Red Kuri, Winter Banana, Buttercup, Sweet Meat, etc. but I can't think of any summer squash that are C. maxima.

You also have choice of C. moschata most of which are winter squash and C. mixta/angiosperma.

I like seed sources like Johnny's, Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, BakerCreek, and Sandhill Preservation that specify the species.

[jal_ut]

The crossing of varieties has no consequences on this season's crop. It is only if you save seed from your squash for planting next year that you have a possibility of hybrid crosses coming up. It is best to buy new seed for planting. Well...... it is OK to plant a few saved seeds for the experiment. (if you have the room) You can get some interesting squashes doing this.

[Taiji]

I see, thank you.

So, if I pay attention to the species, I can plant 2 different species next to each other and the cross pollination won't matter; I can plant the seed from the resulting fruits the following year and expect them to remain true.

So, as an example, a zucchini next to a Blue Hubbard won't affect fruits for the following year, if you save the seeds from each and plant them. (providing there are no other squash around)

[imafan26]

I don't have the space to plant more than one squash and I don't know how the species cross, however if you time your plantings so that the zucchini and the hubbard do not bloom at the same time, there should be no crossing. Zucchini can mature in 50 days and most of the winter squash is about 100 so you should be able to work out the timing. There are parthenocarpic zucchini which do not require pollination so you can cover them with row covers so the bugs and bees will be kept out.

The other way to limit cross pollination is to separate them by distance. I only know the corn distance is 600 ft, I don't know about squash.

[digitS']

Fedco Seed Company say that the isolation distance for squash should be 1,500 feet. That's a mighty long way! However, squash seem to cross pollinate readily - that has been my and my neighbors' experience. Fedco must buy seed from growers and has requirements for isolation.

They also say that C. moschata, C. pepo and C. maxima "generally do not cross." I've read that elsewhere.

The C. maxima are my favorite winter squash. C. pepo are mostly summer squash so I might save seed from both but I have the problem that I grow Jack o'Lantern pumpkins and so does my neighbor. When I have saved seeds, I've gotten crosses between the zucchini and pumpkins. I knew it was a possibility with these C. pepo and, sure enough!

Having more than one variety of C. maxima has resulted in crosses but they have been interesting . I just don't want to use up so much of my garden space with no real good idea what I am growing. Nevertheless, these have been good tasting winter varieties and good keepers so, the next generation hasn't disappointed me. I have not yet decided to go on to yet another generation but I probably won't.

Steve

[kayjay]

Personally, I would just buy new seed every year, especially for summer squash. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you want to save summer squash seed, you have to let a fruit go to maturity, at which point you wouldn't want to eat it, AND it discourages the plant from producing more fruit. I'd rather have more zucchini, and then just spend another $0.33 on a pack of seeds in the fall for next year.

If I wanted to save squash seeds, I'd bag the flowers and pollinate by hand.

[imafan26]

Your seeds are cheaper than mine. The cheapest I can get seeds are $1. Most seeds now are $1.44-$5.00. I read that while squashes will cross the germination rate of the crosses are anywhere from 15%-50%. Seedling survival is anywhere from 0% to 15% for intergeneric crosses. Crosses within the genera have a higher survival, but like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.

Some squash seeds are good for a couple of years, but zucchini loses viability very fast. Even by the next year my germination declines so it has not been useful for me to save zucchini seeds even though the package contains more seeds than I need. I have switched to parthenocarpic seeds which cost a lot more, because I have been disappointed in the yields lately and hoped to get better results with the parthenocarpic ones.

[Taiji]

Personally, I would just buy new seed every year, especially for summer squash. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you want to save summer squash seed, you have to let a fruit go to maturity, at which point you wouldn't want to eat it, AND it discourages the plant from producing more fruit. I'd rather have more zucchini, and then just spend another $0.33 on a pack of seeds in the fall for next year.

If I wanted to save squash seeds, I'd bag the flowers and pollinate by hand.

Yes, you're absolutely right. Zucchini, Butternut, Blue Hubbard seeds are cheap and easily available every year. What I was really thinking of (but neglected to mention) (my bad) was that this year I wanted to try some of the crook neck butternut winter squash which I found to be a little more expensive and harder to find. I thought if I could save seeds from one of those, I'd be set for life! I did get some seeds online.

The hand pollination is a good idea.

[jal_ut]

Be advised that if you save some squash seeds, they are most likely to be crosses. Of course some of the hybrid crosses produce some very nice edible fruits. They also cross with gourds so you might get some things that are not really appealing for eating. The bees work the squash blossoms and be aware that honey bees will fly up to two miles in search of flowers. Plant a few saved seeds for the experiment, but be sure to plant some seeds from the seed store that will come as advertised.

[digitS']

Hey, Taiji!

Are you anywhere close to Tucson? I know it's a big state but you may be in an environment similar to the original home (La Madera, NM, north of Santa Fe) of a squash I grew a couple of years ago. In fact, it was what I was thinking of when I said that I'd saved seed and the plants were obvious crosses ... but, that was kinda okay.

It was La Madera squash but the seed outfit is Native Seeds Search in Tucson. They took La Madera out of their catalog the year after I tried it.

That variety or not -- Native S/S has lots of interesting squash varieties and other things. I imagine that their retail store is a fun place to visit.

Steve
edit: oh yes, I remember that you are near Prescott ...

[Taiji]

Thanks Jal. If the bees can pollinate up to 2 miles, you're right. Save some and see what happens but don't count on them for your real crop. Now I wonder, (I'm always wondering) if all the seeds from one fruit would give the exact same type of squash or if you could get different crosses even from seeds that came from the same fruit? hmmm

Thanks Steve. Sounds like an interesting place. I haven't been to Tucson for maybe 25 yrs. (has it been that long!?) Wow. Yes, it's about 4 hours south of here. I will look at their website though.

[jal_ut]

" Now I wonder, (I'm always wondering) if all the seeds from one fruit would give the exact same type of squash or if you could get different crosses even from seeds that came from the same fruit? hmmm"

I am going to assume that you could get different crosses even from seeds that came from the same fruit.

[applestar]

If what you are thinking of is Canada Crookneck or similar, then thats definitely a C.moschata and shouldn't cross with any of the typical summer squash.

[!potatoes!]

shouldn't - but might! interspecies crosses do happen from time to time!