Hi!
This is my first post, after reading many threads here in the past week or so. I'm looking to start a vegetable garden in my yard this year to supplement my family's grocery (and health!) needs, and have a plan that I'd like to run by "the pro's" to see if I'm off-base here or not. =)
We're located in Western Massachusetts, and I have a reasonable amount of area in the yard that gets full sun for most of the day. (or rather, it will after I finish taking back the pesky Butternut tree again this year) My plan is to construct two "containers" measuring 4'x8' with a soil depth of 2'8" to be filled with a good topsoil/manure mix from a reputable local landscaping/garden supply company. These will rest approximately 4" off the ground, supported on partially submerged concrete blocks. I also plan on a potato "tower" or two made of fencing, and building upwards.
I suppose the question here is whether the 2'8" depth will be enough to root a good crop of the "typical" garden veggies successfully, assuming a rich soil mix and careful tending. I am quite new to this, and have a preliminary plan drawn up, but want to be sure I'm not constructing these "beds" without hope of ever successfully growing substantial plants in them. =)
As for the logic behind this rather cumbersome arrangement, I have a couple reasons; first and foremost, it seems that the back of my property, where the beds will be located, was the household dump at one time. With the house being at least 100 years old, and a garage having fallen in this area at one point, there is quite a nasty mix of debris under the sod. Bricks, nails, broken glass, etc. Even found an antique motorcycle part or two down there. Throw in the rocks that were seemingly discarded at random throughout the yard (scraps from the stone foundation?) and I think my labor is better spent building these bins and leaving the ground alone. =) My knees aren't in the best of shape, either, and leaning over a raised structure is *much* easier than being on the ground weeding and tending.
In addition, there's a white walnut (butternut) tree on the property, within 15-20 yards of this area, and all I read tells me that the root system secretes toxins that stunt other plant growth. It will be coming down within a couple years, so that I can erect a garage, but for now it stays put. Nice shade for my BBQ area, and my little girl likes to climb in it. =)
This leads to my second question; I plan on starting a compost heap this year for use next year. Is it safe to assume that I should avoid the leaves from the butternut tree being mixed in with the other leaves? (two different varieties of maple, and some sort of hybrid tree I can't seem to identify.) Will just a few hurt the mix?
Thanks for enduring the lengthly post, and any advice that may be available. =)
-
opabinia51
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 4659
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:58 pm
- Location: Victoria, BC
Hi and welcome to the Helpful Gardener,
I would think that 2 foot 8 would be sufficient planting directly into the soil is going to be tough for now but, overtime you can make it possible.
It's beneficial to do this for a couple of reasons, a) planting above the soil you are losing out on all the beneficial soil organisms that are already living in your dirt.
b) there are a plethora of nutrients contained within your current soil, if it is clay based, they are just harder to get at.
c) This project seems like it is going to take a lot of work and energy and if you can get nature to take some of the workload off your back, all the better.
I realize that you have a fair amount of debris in your yard, I would recommend getting it tested for contaminants and if it is just particulate debris then I wouldn't be concerned. However if you have some chemical contaminants, then you have problem.
Another thing is that if you are able to plant directly into the soil, the worms will be right there and you won't have to buy them to compost for you. They are really expensive to buy.
Ohhhhhh, I missed the Walnut tree. Yes, that will be a huge problem however there are some plants that can be grown around Walnut trees like Tomatoes, Goumi's (A perennial Nitrogen fixing, edible berry producing bush), and another tree that I'm currently forgetting the name of. Anyway, these sorts of plants can be planted around the tree to act as a buffer so that you can grow other plants in the vicinity.
But, your plan is sounding better to me.
So as I said: 2 and half feet should suffice but, in the fall add mulched leaves and grass clipping or manure to your container. And dig up or buy some red Wriggler worms and add them to the mix as well. They will be your best friend as time goes on. Just don't forget to feed them with more leaves and some greens as well.
I'm glad you asked about the compost heap, I must admit I have never heard of a butternut tree. As far as I know they shouldn't pose a problem but, I am not certain. The walnut tree is a huge no no though, the leaves along with the root secretions contain Juglone, an allelopathic chemical that retards the growth of just about most plants. Maple are great, full of micro and macro nutrients. Be sure to run over them with the lawnmover before putting them in the compost heap. If you can find some tillia they are great, don't even need to mulch them. Cottonwood leaves work well, again need to be mulched first.
Now, don't forget to add an equal amount of greens if you want to hot compost, and if you do add a 50:50 mixture of greens to browns turn the pile everyday or it will turn anaerobic on you and smell to high heavens.
What are greens?
Anything with a C:N ratio below about 50:1.
Grass
Eggshells
coffee grounds (used)
Manure
blood meal
kitchen scraps (no meat!)
Incidentally citrus rinds are loaded with micro and macro nutrients
Seaweed
Kelp meal
I live on the coast so, if I find any I throw jellyfish into my compost
Small amounts of wood burnings (don't quote me on this one it may be a brown, wood has a C:N ratio of about 2000:1)
Use lots of leaves in your compost. A 50:50 mixture of leaves and other browns (shredded newspaper, wood shavings, etc) to greens for a hot compost and a higher proportion of leaves for a cold compost (don't have to turn as often but will take longer to compost gor you). And keep a leaf mold pile as well. That's really simple just have a pile (a couple of piles) of mulched up leaves around the yard. Turn them every once and a while. Sprinkle the leaf mold around your plants to add nutrients and to protect them from winter cold and blistering summer heat.
I would think that 2 foot 8 would be sufficient planting directly into the soil is going to be tough for now but, overtime you can make it possible.
It's beneficial to do this for a couple of reasons, a) planting above the soil you are losing out on all the beneficial soil organisms that are already living in your dirt.
b) there are a plethora of nutrients contained within your current soil, if it is clay based, they are just harder to get at.
c) This project seems like it is going to take a lot of work and energy and if you can get nature to take some of the workload off your back, all the better.
I realize that you have a fair amount of debris in your yard, I would recommend getting it tested for contaminants and if it is just particulate debris then I wouldn't be concerned. However if you have some chemical contaminants, then you have problem.
Another thing is that if you are able to plant directly into the soil, the worms will be right there and you won't have to buy them to compost for you. They are really expensive to buy.
Ohhhhhh, I missed the Walnut tree. Yes, that will be a huge problem however there are some plants that can be grown around Walnut trees like Tomatoes, Goumi's (A perennial Nitrogen fixing, edible berry producing bush), and another tree that I'm currently forgetting the name of. Anyway, these sorts of plants can be planted around the tree to act as a buffer so that you can grow other plants in the vicinity.
But, your plan is sounding better to me.
So as I said: 2 and half feet should suffice but, in the fall add mulched leaves and grass clipping or manure to your container. And dig up or buy some red Wriggler worms and add them to the mix as well. They will be your best friend as time goes on. Just don't forget to feed them with more leaves and some greens as well.
I'm glad you asked about the compost heap, I must admit I have never heard of a butternut tree. As far as I know they shouldn't pose a problem but, I am not certain. The walnut tree is a huge no no though, the leaves along with the root secretions contain Juglone, an allelopathic chemical that retards the growth of just about most plants. Maple are great, full of micro and macro nutrients. Be sure to run over them with the lawnmover before putting them in the compost heap. If you can find some tillia they are great, don't even need to mulch them. Cottonwood leaves work well, again need to be mulched first.
Now, don't forget to add an equal amount of greens if you want to hot compost, and if you do add a 50:50 mixture of greens to browns turn the pile everyday or it will turn anaerobic on you and smell to high heavens.
What are greens?
Anything with a C:N ratio below about 50:1.
Grass
Eggshells
coffee grounds (used)
Manure
blood meal
kitchen scraps (no meat!)
Incidentally citrus rinds are loaded with micro and macro nutrients
Seaweed
Kelp meal
I live on the coast so, if I find any I throw jellyfish into my compost
Small amounts of wood burnings (don't quote me on this one it may be a brown, wood has a C:N ratio of about 2000:1)
Use lots of leaves in your compost. A 50:50 mixture of leaves and other browns (shredded newspaper, wood shavings, etc) to greens for a hot compost and a higher proportion of leaves for a cold compost (don't have to turn as often but will take longer to compost gor you). And keep a leaf mold pile as well. That's really simple just have a pile (a couple of piles) of mulched up leaves around the yard. Turn them every once and a while. Sprinkle the leaf mold around your plants to add nutrients and to protect them from winter cold and blistering summer heat.
opabinia,
Thanks very much for your thoughtful reply. I apologize for the long delay in thanks - got a little caught up with things as the snow starts melting here in the Berkshires.
I have access to quite a bit of coffee grounds between my own excessive consumption and the deli that my mother operates. We go through plenty of veggie scraps and eggshells as well, so I should be able to keep a little pile going throughout the season.
Again, thanks very much for the lengthly and helpful reply.
Thanks very much for your thoughtful reply. I apologize for the long delay in thanks - got a little caught up with things as the snow starts melting here in the Berkshires.
Well, I'm halfway through the easy part - I spent our last sunny day outside cutting and nailing, and have the walls/floors of the units framed out. If we ever get a day without precipitation (rather, if I ever get a day off work without such) I'll be able to get the sheathing on the studs and slap these things together. Shoveling the several-truckloads of topsoil will be the part that's not much fun, I guess. I could do the carpentry all day and be happy about it - shoveling soil, not so much.c) This project seems like it is going to take a lot of work and energy and if you can get nature to take some of the workload off your back, all the better.
Thanks for this tidbit in particular - I did not know that buffer plants existed. This will definitely come in handy when doing some of the non-edible plantings this year.Ohhhhhh, I missed the Walnut tree. Yes, that will be a huge problem however there are some plants that can be grown around Walnut trees like Tomatoes, Goumi's (A perennial Nitrogen fixing, edible berry producing bush), and another tree that I'm currently forgetting the name of. Anyway, these sorts of plants can be planted around the tree to act as a buffer so that you can grow other plants in the vicinity.
"Butternut" isn't the proper name, I guess. That's how the fruit are colloquially referred to. The tree itself is the "White Walnut" whereas the "typical" walnut tree is referred to as a "Black Walnut." Different physical properties in the wood (white is much softer) and different fruit, but to my knowledge the toxins are the same. At first, I thought I had a Black Walnut tree on the property, and was quite excited as it does need to come down eventually, and I do a bit of woodworking - walnut tends to be an expensive stock to buy. Unfortunately, the white flavor is not nearly as exciting to someone who dabbles in woodworking.I'm glad you asked about the compost heap, I must admit I have never heard of a butternut tree.
Thank you for all of the advice on the composting. I've got a few good sized piles of leaves around - never got around to the burning this winter (thank you, snow.) and they've had a nice wet winter to stew. I'll take your advice on the green/brown ratios and see how well I do eyeballing the right mix.Now, don't forget to add an equal amount of greens if you want to hot compost, and if you do add a 50:50 mixture of greens to browns turn the pile everyday or it will turn anaerobic on you and smell to high heavens.
I have access to quite a bit of coffee grounds between my own excessive consumption and the deli that my mother operates. We go through plenty of veggie scraps and eggshells as well, so I should be able to keep a little pile going throughout the season. Again, thanks very much for the lengthly and helpful reply.