Squash plants

[pinksand]

It hasn't been quite that hot here but it is in the 90s and I've been noticing my cucumbers wilting in the heat more than my squash. I was out of town for a couple of weeks and they were looking rough when I got home (my watering backup doesn't realize just how much the ground needs to be saturated in this heat). I've been watering them once daily now and they've perked back up but I lost some of the fruit that had been forming before I left. I'm only growing summer squash this year but last year I do remember my butternut squash looking wilted during the heat of the day and I ended up losing one of them by late August.

[rainbowgardener]

I've been saying butternut and hubbard.

One is a classic butternut.

But I'm not sure about these - not hubbard I don't think...

[applestar]

What do the blossoms look like? Can you post a picture? (See if they have extra long calyces) I'm not seeing spines on the leaf stems... Does it have peach fuzz instead? If so, this might be a C.moschata. Maybe a butternut cross ...with something like Long Island Cheese? The shape could still be a Seminole Pumpkin, too.

[!potatoes!]

yeah, the stem looks pretty moschata, if maybe a little thick in that first pic. I've seen that thickening happen occasionally, spontaneously in butternuts...could also be a sign of an interspecies cross if you're using saved seed. they're not all that uncommon.

[Toxic1979]

I'm growing a variety of Zucchini called "Sure Thing".

This variety is listed as a self pollinating variety. Like here: https://halifaxseed.ca/products/type/category/Squash

I bought the seeds from here. Scroll down and you'll see them. I also purchased Tarminofi Hybrid.

Ive read up on this "Sure Thing" variety, and discovered that its a seedless variety also. Am I correct in assuming that I do not need to hand pollinate these? Or pollinate them at all?

So far I have not hand pollinated them, and they are growing extremely well. I have two good 5 inch zucchinis growing well over the last week.
Although the website does say they are great for window sills.... I would disagree, unless you have a 4 foot window sill. This things are huge in my greenhouse. LOL

Thanks in advance.

[rainbowgardener]

yeah, I think might be the seminole pumpkin. Those and the butternuts are still hanging in there, wilting in the hot sun and then perking up again in the evening, even without water.

[applestar]

If it's Seminole, they are supposed to be pretty productive. I hope you'll be happy with them.

@Toxic, sounds like you have a Parthenocarpic variety that won't need to be pollinated. My H-19 Littleleaf cucumber is supposed to be Parthenocarpic. Yesterday, I found FOUR fruits hiding near the bottom of the vines under the leaves getting larger than I wanted them to.

[greenstubbs]

Take it from a person that lives in the hot irrigated desert of Central Ca. where it's always hot, sunny, and dry. I H2O the snot out of my squashes everyday, basically flood them to death and they come back for more. With no clouds from May - Oct. I even have to pitch a shade tent over them to shade the hot sun and they perk right up. I do the same for Cucks and Peppers when they get that way too. Otherwise my peppers get will nasty sun scorched if I don't.

[Toxic1979]

Learning new gardening terminology again today... parthenocarpic! LOL. Thanks applestar... I'm trying this variety as a lower maintenance variety, so next year when me and wife are in France for 5 weeks, the neighbour has less work to do! If they work out well this year, Ill grow them again next year.

Weird thing is they are growing both male and female flowers still. I found the females have much larger insides once the flowers open vs the other varieties of zucchini.

Question... How many zucchinis should you let grow on one plant at any given time. One of mine has three female on it as of this morning. Should I restrict any others from growing? Or should I let it produce at its own ability?

greenstubbs.... I would agree with the excessive watering plan. I have four zucchini plants in my greenhouse. I need to water them in the morning and then the evening on hotter days. Otherwise they wilt and then come back again within about hour of supply a drowning amount of water. I have them in pots that are bout 7 gallons. Might be a bit small, but this years zucchinis are doing wonderful compared to last year. They grow so fast, and once they start producing, its almost daily changes in the size of the zucchini. I want to make sure they don't grow too quick and crack/ split on the outer skin like they did last year.

[Toxic1979]

Do any of you provide support for your zucchini leaves. Mine are huge, and long and getting heavy. I'm worried they may topped over the containers and damage the stems. Is it normal?

Last years did not get this big. If I guessed they are easily 4 foot (leaf to opposite side leaf), and about 3 feet tall. Hate touching them as I always forget about how spiny they are. lol.

[Taiji]

I don't restrict the number of fruits on my zucchini plants. If things are as they should be, I harvest them at about 6 or 7 inches long so they aren't on there very long anyway and they just keep pumping out more. But, what usually goes wrong is that I neglect the plant then come back and find baseball bat size zucchini!

If you're saying the whole zucchini plant is about 4 feet across and 3 feet high that sounds about normal. Sometimes mine get 6 feet wide easily.

This year I had a volunteer "zucchini" come up and I let it grow because it was way ahead of the ones I planted. The leaves were the biggest I've ever seen, deep green, huge. But, I think the seed was a cross from some other squash I had in there last year, because it only gave tiny little zucchinis which refused to grow any bigger than about 4 inches, and only the diameter of say, my middle finger. I finally pulled up the 2 plants because they were encroaching on everything else. Sure gave me lotsa mulch!

[GreenGoddess]

I've had that problem too in Florida the last couple of years with the white patty pan squash that I like. I've read that you should wrap foil around the stems of the plants to discourage the squash borers. I haven't tried spraying with BT though like Peter1142 suggested. I wanted to grow things organically but that doesn't seem to work here so BT may be the next try for me.

[rainbowgardener]

Bt is strictly organic. It stands for Bacillus thuringiensis. It is a bacterium that only infects certain types of caterpillars and is completely harmless to everything else.

Another possibility that has been mentioned here is coating the base of the stems with tanglefoot, a very sticky substance used as an insect barrier. I want to try that.

I have tried the foil in the past. It is hard to keep it wrapped tight enough to keep them out; I still lost my plants.

[Taiji]

I'm fortunate here in that I'm not bothered by the SVB. Only one time a few years ago I planted a couple of zucchini plants and they kept wilting down. I would water them and they'd come back but wilt down again. Finally they gave up the ghost. I'd never heard of the SVB then and just thought well who knows, some root disease. I replanted and the new plants were fine. It only happened that one time. I know now it must have been an attack of the SVB. I didn't know what to look for back then.

Across the valley at a little lower elevation I've heard they have SVB. Even butternut are affected I've heard.

[rainbowgardener]

So these seminole pumpkins or whatever they are, are ripening up.

How do I know when to harvest them?

[rainbowgardener]

So I just ordered myself some Tanglefoot for the yellow crooknecks I just planted. I found it in a spray can that seems like a lot less messy than the other stuff...

Let you know how it works! Since I lost two acorn squash plants to the SVB's not that long ago, I know they are here and likely still active. Here in the South, we are lucky enough to have two generations of SVB's in one season.

[jal_ut]

Quote: The vining ones have vines 15 feet long spreading out in all directions. Seems excessive.

I am giggling at this. Yes that is what squash do.

We garden is different circumstances. Here at 5000 ft elevation the SVB can't overwinter here. I have never seen them in my garden. (knock on wood)

Good luck finding something that will knock them out or at least slow them down.

[rainbowgardener]

Anyone want to weigh in on whether these are ready to pick when they are fully yellow or are there some other signs I should be looking for? I have at least four of them that are very close to being completely yellow.

Once picked, how should I store them? I have a garage, but since it is closed most of the time, it stays VERY hot in this weather.

[Taiji]

The last few years I've just been leaving my butternut on the vine til the vine starts to look like it's nearly spent. I just like to let them glean every bit of nutrition from the vines. I try to pick them just before frost or else cover them with straw or something if frost is expected. But that's just me here with butternut. My frost date is probably much earlier than yours.

Of course I leave an inch or 2 of the stem on to help them last longer in storage.

[applestar]

I think they might be OK to pick once they start to yellow and turn buff colored all over, but not quite yet, based on your photo. Seminole, if that's what it is, is supposed to be good eating so you want to make sure they are fully mature.

I was reviewing my various "lists" -- they really need to be organized better -- and came across the list of seeds I sent you for your "garden warming"
- Squash Winter, C.mixta Cushaw White ("Jonathn Pumpkin") Baker Creek for 2013
- Squash Winter, C.moschata Seminole (x Thai Kang Kob?) Applestar Spiral Garden 2014
- Squash Winter, C.moschata Thai Kang Kob (x Tromboncino?) Applestar SFH 2015
- Squash Winter, C.moschata Tromboncino Applestar Spiral Garden 2014

…so if this possible Seminole is grown from seeds I sent you, there is a chance it was bee-crossed with Thai Kang Kob. Which may explain the somewhat not-quite appearance. It will be interesting to see if they develop any bumps or splotchy appearance in the skin. (Seminole is every colored like butternut) Thai Kang Kob will also start out dark green and smoothly ribbed but develop sort of lumpy and bumpy irregularities in the skin and become splotchy colored with blue green and yellow green -- really attractive actually -- and then turn buff/tan color. The color change will continue in storage and C.moschatas are generally considered ready to eat after one month+ in storage.

Last year when I let one change color in the garden before harvesting, the flavor was completely improved from when I had harvested it green the first year I tried growing them. Interior flesh had also deepened from yellow to orange.

For the most part though, C.moschatas are late maturing and I have to leave them in the garden until hard frost threatens. So if there are other members with experience growing them and harvesting them without worrying about frost and freeze, I would be curious to know how you determine when to harvest, too. Only test I know of is the thumbnail test -- winter squash rind should be hard enough that thumbnail won't leave a mark.

[rainbowgardener]

So here are the plants:



That is two plants, one butternut and one the Seminole whatever. Yes it would have been from the seeds you sent me, applestar.

Here they are from the opposite direction


But this is where those stems come out of the ground:


Is it normal for it to lose all those oldest leaves?

So I guess I just leave them until the vines die?

What about storing them? They should be in as cool as I can manage (but not freezing) and dark?

[rainbowgardener]

I guess I have been putting too many questions in one post. What about this one:



Is it normal for it to lose all those oldest leaves?

[applestar]

Did they die on their own or did you clip them off because of fungal issues?

This may be fertility issue -- I've noticed a lot of fruiting plants that I grow will lose older leaves when they are in their last push to mature their fruits. I always wonder if I didn't fertilize enough and they are spending/expending their energy by sacrificing the senior foliage. I don't know if it helps to fertilize by the time this happens and the plant has made the decision to alter the energy transfer. (This is a *total* speculation on my part -- just a thought that crosses my mind when it happens).

[rainbowgardener]

They were looking a bit fungal, but I didn't clip them, they died on their own.

I haven't fertilized very much, but the soil should be very rich, with a big layer of composted horse manure at the bottom, a layer of mulch on top that has mostly broken down, and a recent top dressing of compost.

I just ordered myself 500 red wiggler earthworms. I don't know why but this property has zero earthworms. I just turned my compost pile and dug out compost for that top dressing and did not find a single one. It makes a noticeable difference in how my compost pile works (doesn't break down as fast, doesn't make as much compost, and the browns stay in more recognizable form even though the greens are completely gone). I figure if I add earthworms, it will help the compost pile, but also help in the garden beds to make the nutrients more available and mix the soil layers.

[rainbowgardener]

The squash still have some green streaks on them, though not much.

It continues to put out only male blossoms and has been doing that for a long time.

I'm thinking once they are totally yellow/buff and once the corn is all done, I will pull everything and prepare that bed for fall planting.

[rainbowgardener]

Of course as soon as I wrote that, the plants promptly put out two female blossoms. The vines are all tangled together, but I'm thinking it may be one seminole and one butternut (possibly two seminoles).

Oh well, just see what happens.... I was sort of looking forward to getting rid of all that and starting with an all cleaned out bed.

[applestar]

They must have their own network and Internet with their own version of Helpfulgardener forum --

"HELP - our gardener is thinking about pulling us out what should we do?"
"QUICK! Grow some FEMALE blossoms! That will deter pesky gardeners from premature yanking."

[rainbowgardener]

[!potatoes!]

most moschatas are pretty tasty as summer squash, harvested when small and still tender, if you really want to speed the bed-cleaning along. I actually tend to like them better than zucchini.

[Taiji]

I've been saying butternut and hubbard.

One is a classic butternut.

But I'm not sure about these - not hubbard I don't think...

Wow, look at this. The same kind of squash Rainbow had. I've never had a squash that looked like this before. I'm assuming this squash is coming off the butternut vine, but really can't tell in the jumbled mess of squash vines I have. I planted, butternut, buttercup, blue hubbard, and zucchini. All seeds were purchased from companies in packets. I don't know if there are any more down in there or not, I can't see!

[jal_ut]

Squash plants can really get going. I have had some of the vining types go 15 feet to a tree, then climb the tree. I water mine once a week. I am using sprinkler irrigation and put down about 1.5 inches of water on the area once a week. Have fun!



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