Bitter melon and Indian Gherkin-anybody grow these before?

[pepperhead212]

This year I am growing bitter melon (Shanghai variety) and Indian Gherkins. Has anybody here grown these before? Both of these are growing on what look like mutated vines in a sci-fi movie! I lost count of how many off shoots there are on both, but I have never seen anything like them. The bitter melon looks like a miniature full sized one, even at less than an inch long. The gherkin looks like an elongated ball of spines. The photo of the gherkin isn't very good, but they are growing fast, so I'll have more soon.
Bitter Melon:


Here's the first gherkin I found. I took the photo yesterday, and the gherkin has more than tripled in size:


Here's a photo of the lower part of the gherkin plant, showing all of the vines growing off of the main vine. And this is just the lower right part of the plant - there are many vines that I have already trained onto the trellis, and one is 4' over to the right!

[Lindsaylew82]

I've never grown either of them, but our Cukes could pass for the bitterest of bitter melons in taste this year.

It's the drought..

I've considered growing bitter melon before. One on my docs is Vietnamese, and was curious if I'd ever grown it. I wanted to grow it after that just to supply him with an organic source. I still haven't. I did try it once from the farmers market. While I enjoy some bitterness, these were unpalatable IMVHO... We tried a soup, a recipe where they were stuffed with pork and roasted, and one fried after a tedious process to remove some of the bitterness.... All too much for me, and I tried to like them. Likely why we haven't tried growing them.

In response to the look of the vines, we are growing Apple Melons, and are finding the same to be true for these vines! Unruly and strange looking. It's just set fruit 3 days ago, and already looking large!

I hope you have the best of luck with them!

[pepperhead212]

Thanks Lindsay. It seems that they (actually it - only one plant!) is growing great, but it is still early. I chose the Shanghai variety because it was described as one of the least bitter; like you, some of those from the market are way too bitter, yet I had a few that were very good, so I thought that I would try them. And maybe picking them small might help.

I'll have to check my Vietnamese CBs, to see if there are any in recipes in those.

[Lindsaylew82]

The roasted one filled with ground pork was the best one. It may have been Indian or Polynesian though, I can't remember. I think our soup recipe may have been Vietnamese... It may have had some type of filling as wellllllll!

Meh. Lemme see if I can find one similar to the roasted one!

It was (sort of) similar to this one:

https://dailycookingquest.com/by-categor ... bean-sauce

[pepperhead212]

That looks good, Lindsay! Thanks! The salting it to remove the bitterness reminds me of the older recipes calling for this with eggplants, since they used to be bitter frequently, when large, old eggplants were common in markets.

[Lindsaylew82]

Haha! I still salt my eggplant! ...And for no reason other than that's just how I was taught to make it!

I bet Imafan has some really good bitter melon recipes!

I feel like maybe I need to revisit these with a more relaxed bitter melon!

[pepperhead212]

I rarely salt my eggplant anymore. The ones I grow don't get bitter; the ichiban maybe a little, but for the most part, I could leave them on the plant until very seedy, yet no bitterness! Plus, I really wouldn't want more salt in any of those Asian dishes that I make with most of them - the soy or fish sauce is enough.

[pepperhead212]

Lindsay,

I couldn't find any recipes for bitter melon in my Vietnamese or other SE Asian CBs, but, of course, a good number in the Indian CBs. Several called for using the peelings, and salting them separately, to remove the bitterness. And most of the books call for smaller bitter melons than you find in markets - probably the reason they are too bitter for most! Here are some of the amounts where they have given weights - 8-10 small = 1 1/4 lbs 4-5 medium = 1 lb 3 large = 1 lb

[digitS']

I grew bitter melon in my temporary hoop house, over 2 beds in my backyard one year. The little structure is important in getting some cool-season things started and to catch any overflow from the greenhouse. Summer comes and I'm sometimes a little at a loss as to what to do with those beds. I have larger gardens, elsewhere.

Leaving up the hoops and allowing the bitter melon vines to climb them was a one-time idea. I couldn't figure out what to do with the melons ! It was a lot like some of my other experiments, like growing Witloof chicory and bulb fennel ... sometimes these things work out, sometimes not.

I have also grown West Indies gherkins. They are okay. I didn't find the flavor unique from other cucumbers. Appearance, yes.

Steve

[imafan26]

I have grown and eaten bitter melon before. I prefer the chinese long bitter melon because it is not as bitter as the small wild ones.

I also get wild ones growing in my yard that the birds bring.

The trick to cooking bitter melon is not to cook them to long or stir them too much and definitely only cook them till they are crisp tender and not soft . It will make them much more bitter. When they are used in Asian type stews they are always one of the last things to add and after they are added the pot is shaken but not stirred. If they are stir fried, they are also put in at the end of cooking. They are kept on the crunchy side and after they are added the pot is either shaken to stir, lightly stirred, or the cover is put on for the vegetables to steam for a brief time. Bitter melon is never cooked to the point of being limp. Try not to make more than you can eat in one sitting. Bitter melon does not reheat well.

beef with bitter melon (chinese style)
Note: Black beans are sold salted and dried in packages in Chinatown or in Hawaii almost any Asian aisle. They need to be reconstituted in water and rinsed before use they are very salty.
Chinese cooking wine is called Shao hsing wine ( you can substitute dry sherry)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_oZNRmNt88

Pinakbet is a Filipiono vegetable stew. This video was made for Filipino cooks so you have to follow the pictures to get the idea of what you should be seeing while you are cooking. He does stir the bitter melon but only briefly and does not cook the bitter melon until it is soft. The softer the bitter melon gets the more subject to bruising and the more bitter it becomes.
A few words to get you by Kamatis = tomato (seeded and cut into eights), talon = eggplant, calabasa = squash usually a Filipino squash similar in taste to kabocha, butternut or acorn squash can be substituted, kalamansi = bartentender lime. Mexican lime = calamondin. It is put on the dish as a finish when served. Beans = sitaw (they usually use Asparagus beans for this dish), talong = eggplant ( usually long purple eggplant) , ampalaya = bitter melon, onion = sibuya, garlic = bawang, ginger = luya or kamya, bagaoong = fermented fish paste. It can be made from different kinds of fish the shrimp paste =buro hipon pandikit = You may have to find this in an asian store. It smells bad but it is supposed to be like that. In Chinese markets you may find the Chinese shrimp paste called Harm Ha. Lee Kum Kee makes one that is called shrimp sauce. Pork = thinly sliced belly pork, okra = okra ( use young pods only 2-3 inches long. Filipinos like to put the young pods in whole.
garlic and ginger are sauteed until fragrant, be careful not to let the garlic burn

https://panlasangpinoy.com/2009/09/09/fi ... og-recipe/

Denengdeng (Filipino vegetable stew)

https://panlasangpinoy.com/2012/08/07/dinengdeng-recipe/
This recipe uses moringa (marunguray) leaves, bittermelon, and squash flowers. Filipinos use fish or pork as the basis for most of their dishes. Bagaoong can have many varieties. this one uses a bagaoong that is not ground but you can see pieces of the whole fermented fish fry in the jar. The bagaoong gives the dish flavor and provides much of the salt.

https://panlasangpinoy.com/2012/08/07/dinengdeng-recipe/

Ginisang Ampalaya with tinapa (smoked round scad)
This is a dish using the bitter melon leaves and smoked round scad it is a smoked fish found in the refrigerated section of an Asian market that caters to the Filipino community.
https://www.kawalingpinoy.com/2015/08/gi ... th-tinapa/

Thai and Chinese usually use the long bitter melon that is not as bitter as the wild one.

https://www.thaitable.com/thai/recipe/st ... tter-melon

https://praneesthaikitchen.com/2011/08/ ... gg-recipe/
This is my favorite way to eat bitter melon. I cheat. Stuffing the cores is too much work. When I do this, I cut the bitter melon lengthwise in half; take out the seed; and stuff the halves. I cook them in a steamer. The salt and black bean sauce hides a lot of the bitterness.

https://www.food.com/recipe/karela-bitte ... ourd-55817

https://www.archanaskitchen.com/mangalor ... kins-curry
https://dailycookingquest.com/by-categor ... bean-sauce

[pepperhead212]

Taking that idea of the black beans, I made a couple of recipes, using a black bean sauce, and they were great! Thanks! I copied some of those, as well.

The variety I am growing is Shanghai, which I got because it was listed as the least bitter. However, I found out that it does not like heat! We had the hottest July on record in this area (and now they are saying the August will also be the hottest), with some high 90's, which stopped the bitter melon and the gherkin from producing at all. When the heat came down to low 80s, a bunch of both of them appeared in no time. And yesterday I picked the first bitter melon of this batch (at least a dozen smaller ones still there, and countless just forming ones), and something strange happened: it changed color, as if ripening. Yet it is only 6" long, and not one has done this, even the ones I left on too long by accident, and they got over 10". I think what may have triggered it is that I left it on top of some tomatoes I harvested at the same time.