What kind of Vegetable Yield to Expect Considering Ph Issue
New here and a few questions and interested. My first vegetable garden but have grown some peppers before. Have a plot about 60 feet around with garden fence with wax beans, Kentucky best, Lima beans, summer squash, broccoli, romanesco broccoli, cucumbers, pear tomato, cherry tomato, Roma tomato, 3 unknown variety, cabbage, icicle radish, fingerling carrot, Brussel sprouts, and spinach growing. Also ripped out some evergreen bushes yesterday and have hostas planted, just got inpatients & coleus, wanting a climatis to grow over electric meter, and some I think reddish gladius bulbs if they grow. Just added calcufied lime to the front as I imagine the bushes made it acidic. Also used Sevin on garden as I saw moths and leaf miners And some holes although wanted to avoid using Sevin. Have different peppers on side of house doin ok but with some holes in leaves. Got started late in garden I guess, mostly from seed 2-3 weeks then in garden around end of April. My main concerns are what kind of yield I'll get from my plants and if the ph will be an issue in front where the bushes were and how long the lime will take to have an effect. I'm also starting a compost pile and may put it in a tub with red worms and just got a container to soak grass clippings in for fertilizer probably also use them for thin mulch layer. Any input is appreciated could use some suggestions or advice.
Oh also bought one of those miracle grow see starters a few days ago, eggplant it has not sprouted yet and I have a broccoli that died so have a blank spot for a bean or something maybe if not too late. Probably do pumpkins later in season. Also doing miracle grow plant food about every two weeks. The captain jacks dead bug brew spinosad didn't seem to stop the leaf miners part of the reason I used Sevin. Also unsure how often to apply sevin. I'm in central Ohio not far from Columbus.
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rainbowgardener
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I don't understand what 60 feet around means. You mean it is 10x6' = 60 square feet? You mean 60 feet around the perimeter, which might mean a 20 x10' bed? (Though it doesn't really look that big)
"Have a plot about 60 feet around with garden fence with wax beans, Kentucky best, Lima beans, summer squash, broccoli, romanesco broccoli, cucumbers, pear tomato, cherry tomato, Roma tomato, 3 unknown variety, cabbage, icicle radish, fingerling carrot, Brussel sprouts, and spinach growing. "
That's a very mixed lot of stuff, with cold weather and warm weather stuff jumbled together. Columbus is having temps in the 80's to 90. Spinach and broccoli hate weather like that and will bolt immediately.
Tell us more the actual dimensions of your bed. Just looking at it, I think you probably have way too much stuff for the size of your plot.
Personally, I think how often to use Sevin is never. It is completely useless against leaf miners anyway. The Sevin goes on the outside of the leaf. The leaf miner is very protected inside the leaf. Unless you have a major infestation of leaf miners they aren't worth worrying about. They just eat a tiny amount of leaf tissue, which the plant doesn't even notice. Just pull off the leaves with squiggles on them and trash them (not in compost pile). No reason to be spraying a potent neurotoxin on your food!
Lamb’s-quarter, columbine and velvetleaf are trap crops for leaf miners. Grow them near, next to, or even in your garden. The leafminer will concentrate on them and leave the rest of your crops alone. Then you can just keep pulling the squiggled leaves off the trap crops. The leafminer is a larval/caterpillar stage. When it is big enough, it emerges from the leaf and drops down, burrows into the soil and pupates. Heavy mulch or plastic under your plants keeps them from reaching the soil so it disrupts the next generation.
"Have a plot about 60 feet around with garden fence with wax beans, Kentucky best, Lima beans, summer squash, broccoli, romanesco broccoli, cucumbers, pear tomato, cherry tomato, Roma tomato, 3 unknown variety, cabbage, icicle radish, fingerling carrot, Brussel sprouts, and spinach growing. "
That's a very mixed lot of stuff, with cold weather and warm weather stuff jumbled together. Columbus is having temps in the 80's to 90. Spinach and broccoli hate weather like that and will bolt immediately.
Tell us more the actual dimensions of your bed. Just looking at it, I think you probably have way too much stuff for the size of your plot.
Personally, I think how often to use Sevin is never. It is completely useless against leaf miners anyway. The Sevin goes on the outside of the leaf. The leaf miner is very protected inside the leaf. Unless you have a major infestation of leaf miners they aren't worth worrying about. They just eat a tiny amount of leaf tissue, which the plant doesn't even notice. Just pull off the leaves with squiggles on them and trash them (not in compost pile). No reason to be spraying a potent neurotoxin on your food!
Lamb’s-quarter, columbine and velvetleaf are trap crops for leaf miners. Grow them near, next to, or even in your garden. The leafminer will concentrate on them and leave the rest of your crops alone. Then you can just keep pulling the squiggled leaves off the trap crops. The leafminer is a larval/caterpillar stage. When it is big enough, it emerges from the leaf and drops down, burrows into the soil and pupates. Heavy mulch or plastic under your plants keeps them from reaching the soil so it disrupts the next generation.
You should do a soil test before you try to alter pH. A lot of things come into play and the soil may be acidic but if the shrubs were doing well, it may not be all that bad.
"60 ft around" I am guessing 10x20 ft. For me that would be a fairly good sized garden if it planted well.
What did you amend the soil with? compost, manure, starter fertilizer and what kind of fertilizer?
I would not plant anything a long the middle of the garden to be able to do maintenance. 4 ft wide beds with access all around is better unless you plant somethin like corn that will take up the entire space.
Orient the bed North south. The tall plants and trellisses should be on the North side with smaller plants in front of it.
Rainbow does have a point. Usually cool and warm season are not planted together especially in the peak of the warm season.
Warm season plants for now will be
corn
squash
melons
beans,
okra
tropical vegetables.
beets, carrots, lettuce, greens, kale, collards,peas do better in cooler weather or can be grown if you have the right microclimate and you are at a high elevation and do not get intense heat. I can plant heat tolerant varieties in the shade in summer.
Zuchhini will need a 30-36 inch circle
radish, beet, onions need space for the roots so at least 4 inches apart, carrot should be 2 inches apart.
Kale cabbage, broccoli, are tall speading plants that will also need 24-36 inches apart
corn 8-12 inches sown in a block , not a row.
vining crops like tomatoes (grow heat resistant varieties if your temps > 86 degrees.), cucumber, some squash and gourds can be grown up to save space and keeo the vines off the ground
Vines of watermelon and squash can be trained to sprawl outside the garden.
pH can be anywhere from 5.5-7.5. Some plants do better in more alkaline conditions but most should grow.
A soil test would be the best ways to know what nutrients and how much you need to work in and what you need to do to correct pH. Sometimes just adding more compost is all you need to do. Aerobic compost is alkaline, and adding organic matter will buffer the pH of the soil so it acts more neutrally.
"60 ft around" I am guessing 10x20 ft. For me that would be a fairly good sized garden if it planted well.
What did you amend the soil with? compost, manure, starter fertilizer and what kind of fertilizer?
I would not plant anything a long the middle of the garden to be able to do maintenance. 4 ft wide beds with access all around is better unless you plant somethin like corn that will take up the entire space.
Orient the bed North south. The tall plants and trellisses should be on the North side with smaller plants in front of it.
Rainbow does have a point. Usually cool and warm season are not planted together especially in the peak of the warm season.
Warm season plants for now will be
corn
squash
melons
beans,
okra
tropical vegetables.
beets, carrots, lettuce, greens, kale, collards,peas do better in cooler weather or can be grown if you have the right microclimate and you are at a high elevation and do not get intense heat. I can plant heat tolerant varieties in the shade in summer.
Zuchhini will need a 30-36 inch circle
radish, beet, onions need space for the roots so at least 4 inches apart, carrot should be 2 inches apart.
Kale cabbage, broccoli, are tall speading plants that will also need 24-36 inches apart
corn 8-12 inches sown in a block , not a row.
vining crops like tomatoes (grow heat resistant varieties if your temps > 86 degrees.), cucumber, some squash and gourds can be grown up to save space and keeo the vines off the ground
Vines of watermelon and squash can be trained to sprawl outside the garden.
pH can be anywhere from 5.5-7.5. Some plants do better in more alkaline conditions but most should grow.
A soil test would be the best ways to know what nutrients and how much you need to work in and what you need to do to correct pH. Sometimes just adding more compost is all you need to do. Aerobic compost is alkaline, and adding organic matter will buffer the pH of the soil so it acts more neutrally.
Well it was a green garden fence roll from the store pretty sure it was 50ft pulse about 4 ft more of the lattice. It's not perfectly square but it's around 12 or 14 ft long and 4-5 ft and about 7 on the other width side. My brother was supposed to help me get started for my first garden and lend me a tiller but didn't so I did it with a shovel and rake mixing in several bags of garden soil and some bags to aerate the soil peat moss and some bags of I think fertilizer. I started most from seed about two to three weeks then planted at the end of April, he didn't tell me until then I should have started in February. Also, didn't at the time realize the cold vs warm weather crop difference although I think I was in line with the seed packet planting times. I thought the leg miners were from white moths I had seen that would turn into cabbage worms I squished a few tiny green worms I had found and thought the Sevin would help although ever since I read about the plant burning in India that killed 3000 people in the 80s from chemicals used to make Sevin I really didn't want to use it. I was still hoping to get a crop from the cold weather stuff. It gets good sun probably from 1 or 2pm through the rest of the day. I've seen a ground hog rabbits a young deer and tunneled dirt out there so I'm worried about animals. The soil out front with the flowers I didn't think calcitic lime would hurt it says on the package it won't burn te plants and online it says it takes a few years to affect ph, although the package doesn't say it takes that long. Planning on collecting grass clippings to soak in water for 2-3 days to add liquid nutrients once it's diluted have been using miracle gro every two weeks on everything.
I followed the packet instructions and measured everything out so te rows and spacing should all be ok. It was mainly loose black soil a few inches down and then gets hard and clay like. People used to bury their trash there I found a glass bottle from 1937 along with 22 shells, glass marbles, about 7 other glass bottles and a jar, two metal pipes, and multiple nails. Only a little worried about the plants pulling in metals for me to eat.
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rainbowgardener
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leaf miners are the larvae/ caterpillars of a little moth (or sometimes fly I guess, there are a lot of different varieties of them). The moth (or whatever) lays her eggs inside the tissue of the leaf. So when the larvae hatch out, they are already inside the leaf. You will never see this caterpillar.
They chew their way around inside the leaf, leaving little light colored squiggly trails:
The cabbage white butterfly is the one that flutters around your garden, whitish with usually a couple dark spots:
The caterpillar of this is the cabbage worm, slender and greenish: (the picture is magnified)
The cabbage worm may be burrowed into the center of the cabbage plant, but it is never between the layers of the leaves. It is a completely different creature from the leafminer.
So which one do you have?
They chew their way around inside the leaf, leaving little light colored squiggly trails:
The cabbage white butterfly is the one that flutters around your garden, whitish with usually a couple dark spots:
The caterpillar of this is the cabbage worm, slender and greenish: (the picture is magnified)
The cabbage worm may be burrowed into the center of the cabbage plant, but it is never between the layers of the leaves. It is a completely different creature from the leafminer.
So which one do you have?
I have both I think. Definitely the leaf miners and within days of the leaf miners I had some chewed leaves. I turned over leaves several times looking for the green worms and killed 3 or 4 they were very small and as thin as a staple. I figured I got them before they grew large. They also seem to favor the broccoli over the cabbage.
Well it's been raining some but not now went out to the garden and saw the moth. Not the best pic but clearly was the cabbage moth one. Is there a way to spot the eggs and smooth them? What's the best way to protect against them at this point? Also saw this other guy but leaving him alone.
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applestar
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Turn over the leaves carefully and you will see the tiny cream colored eggs. Pointy and standing on end. Sometimes they are laid singly, but when they are egg dumping, there may be dozens. They rub off easily, but sometimes, I accidentally rub them off into the center of the leaves 
-- dribble a little water in there to float them out.
-- dribble a little water in there to float them out.-
applestar
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I think most of them take week to 10 days to hatch from newly laid eggs, but I have looked it up. The one in your photo is actually a butterfly BTW -- Cabbage White. They have velvety frosty green caterpillars that blend in well with cabbage and broccoli leaves, but typically they are along the edge of a hole they are making or the center rib of the leaf.
There are two types of moth larva that I get on my brassica -- cabbage looper and cross-striped cabbageworm. Cross-striped is by far the worst out of all three of them because the eggs are laid in a cluster of tiny yellow wax-like smear, then they all hatch at once and start munching at once. I agree they seem to prefer broccoli to cabbage (and sweeter kale like Dwarf Scotch to Red Russian). The moths fly and lay their eggs at night.
HGIC 2203 Cabbage, Broccoli & Other Cole Crop Insect Pests : Extension : Clemson University : South Carolina
https://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/p ... c2203.html
BTW, I saw My snake yesterday, too.
...yeah radish is harder because of the fuzzy/prickly leaves. But they don't like it much either, I think? I pick them off when they are big enough.
And the NEAT guy is a juice sucking leaf-hopper. Not too bad except sometimes they transmit diseases. Look for spittle bugs -- bubbles of spit-like hiding place on stems where their larvae hide.
There are two types of moth larva that I get on my brassica -- cabbage looper and cross-striped cabbageworm. Cross-striped is by far the worst out of all three of them because the eggs are laid in a cluster of tiny yellow wax-like smear, then they all hatch at once and start munching at once. I agree they seem to prefer broccoli to cabbage (and sweeter kale like Dwarf Scotch to Red Russian). The moths fly and lay their eggs at night.
HGIC 2203 Cabbage, Broccoli & Other Cole Crop Insect Pests : Extension : Clemson University : South Carolinahttps://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/p ... c2203.html
BTW, I saw My snake yesterday, too.
...yeah radish is harder because of the fuzzy/prickly leaves. But they don't like it much either, I think? I pick them off when they are big enough.
And the NEAT guy is a juice sucking leaf-hopper. Not too bad except sometimes they transmit diseases. Look for spittle bugs -- bubbles of spit-like hiding place on stems where their larvae hide.
Is this a good idea? I found out late about planting tomatoes deep (or sideways which my cousin doesn't care for) where the hairs on the stem are. I cut out the bottoms of some plastic containers and figured I could add several inches of dirt to allow them to produce more roots.
Also, my icicle radish should be ready according to the harvest time guidelines however I pulled 3 of them and they were fairly small barely a garnish to my eel scallop and rice meal last night. Will more time help? Not sure if it's the warmth or the soil but they are only about two inches long on the thick part and some small parts beyond that.
Also, my icicle radish should be ready according to the harvest time guidelines however I pulled 3 of them and they were fairly small barely a garnish to my eel scallop and rice meal last night. Will more time help? Not sure if it's the warmth or the soil but they are only about two inches long on the thick part and some small parts beyond that.
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