Toxic1979
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Type of Mulching to Use

What type of mulching should I use for the vegetable garden?

Note; Doing my own compost would take way too long right now. I am composting on a smaller scale just to see if I can do it in this area and how long it will take.

I would like to mulch around my vegetables in the raised beds. I have access to the following:

- fresh wood chips- but I am told not to use them as they will rob your soil of nitrogen and other beneficial nutrients that your plants need.
- store bought pine bark nuggets- I'm not sure exactly to use these. They are fairly large, roughly 3-4 inches in size.
- store bought Cedar chip mulch (with and without dyes)- I'm not sure if cedar will damage plant growth. I believe they are intended for use on walkways, not sure about vegetable gardens as mulch.
- store bought composts- Pretty much cow manure, sheep manure, and shrimp compost. Which is the best and how should I apply them...

Also, do any of you use mulch in your potted vegetables in your greenhouses? If so what, and how do you apply it? Same as garden?

Thanks in advance!

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Gary350
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I don't use mulch and never will.

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Meatburner
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Gary350 wrote:I don't use mulch and never will.
Mulching may be one of the best things you can do for any garden. The easiest is something like wheat straw. Some areas have better straw than others when it comes to the amount of seeds still on the straw. Just to prevent a war, send me a pm about mulching. Wood chips absolutely DO NOT rob nitrogen and any other nutrients. Just the opposite, they add more to your soil if you understand how to apply them as a mulch.

ButterflyLady29
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No leaves from last year? No grass clippings from mowing the lawn? Those are what I usually use.

Do you have any access to newspaper or cardboard? If so you can always put those on the ground and spread wood chips on top to hold the paper/cardboard in place. The chips won't leech as much nitrogen from the soil that way. Then you can till the chips and paper under with some chicken or cow manure in the fall.

I love my leaf/grass clipping mulch. In the terraced garden I use it on the paths to keep weeds down and mud off my shoes.

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Lindsaylew82
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We love mulch! Pine straw is my favorite! It's pricey for a big garden!

Wheat straw isn't regular go to. This year, I'm growing so much wheat from heavily seeded "straw", it's not even funny! :eek: :evil: It's pretty annoying actually... But there is a remedy! Get it several months before you need it and let it sprout and rot. Rotted straw or even well rotted hay is really good stuff! We put down 2 layers of brown packaging paper down the rows, and then spread the straw. Aside from nutsedge (and wheat volunteers) it does a very good job of keeping everything looking nice and weed free, as well as cool and moist during the hottest parts of our summer. I also top with grass clippings, and bags of chopped leaves from the big oaks out front. I also mulch with compost when I've got my own!

We get free mulch from the local landfill for the front beds. It's pretty dirty stuff. Lots of spare junk in there that doesn't belong.. I won't use that for the garden.

I've been looking to get a load of wood chips, to go in between my raised rows, from local tree trimming services. I've sent SO many emails, with zero response back, and we are literally on the way to the landfill....

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Straw is o.k. to use as mulch you don't want to use hay since that is where you get a lot of weed seeds.

Barkchips can be used as mulch and it does not rob the soil if it is on top. If you were to bury fresh bark then you would be robbing nitrogen.

You can use leaves for mulch or compost can be used as a mulch . I would not use manure as a mulch too much salt.

If you have neighbors with trees and you can ask for their healthy leaves or if you have local tree trimmers they are usually glad to drop a load in your yard when they are in the area. It can also be used as fuel for the compost pile.

I don't have too many deciduous trees in the tropics but I could save the prunings if they are healthy. My friend used to go and sweep the flowers and leaves dropped by the monkey pod street trees. I have collected pine needles and it makes an excellent mulch as long as you don't use it around the onion family. It is alleopathic to them. I like pine needles because they don't pack down like leaf mold and they let air and light through but are alleopatic to weeds. Weeds will grow right on top of leaf mulch no problem.

I do use newspaper as mulch in the garden since I don't have a lot of access to leaves and I have to find a pine tree to get the needles. Newspaper will keep weeds down a couple of months and give the vegetables a head start. They keep the soil moist and I usually don't have to worry about the mulch drinking up most of the water before it gets to the soil or the mulch being too close to the plant stems.

In pots, I save the potting soil bags and cut them to fit the pot. They make a decent weed barrier and they help keep the soil moist. It is what I use in the SIP containers.

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rainbowgardener
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I use mixed green - brown mulches, just like in the compost pile. So fall leaves and grass clippings are a brown - green mix. Shredded paper and pulled weeds is another. That way when the mulch breaks down, it makes a more complete soil amendment.

I never leave bare soil sitting around if I can help it!

Toxic1979
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I also have some people telling me that cedar can damage vegetable growth? Then I read some people build the raised from it, and use the chips to keep snails away.... any thoughts of using cedar as a mulch?

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applestar
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I imagine cedar could be acidifying, so not so good for plants that are weakened or don't grow as well in lower pH range soil -- thinking of mustard family (cabbage, broccoli, etc, radish, turnip, etc. ), beets, peas, lettuce....

catgrass
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I use newspaper layered in between the rows and about 2-3 inches from the base of my plants. Wet down the ground and your newspaper before laying it down so it won't fly away. Put your mulch choice on top of that to keep the paper in place. Since you are laying the mulch (chips, bark, etc.) on top, it won't rob your soil of nitrogen as long as you don't work it into the soil. I absolutely hate colored mulch. I use pine bark mulch or cedar mulch, whichever is available at the cheapest price.

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Gary350
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I grew up on a farm, we never mulched and we never had weeds or grass in the garden. Everyone grew a garden back then in the 1950s and 1960s no one mulched their garden and no one had weeds or grass. How did the idea of mulching get started. My Grandfather tough me how to garden he had already been doing it 50 years before I was born. It is basic science.

Look at the pictures, 1 is before I tilled the yard, 1 is after I tilled the yard and planted the garden. Nice green grass yard, I tilled it every day to do root and plant damage to the plants that grew there. There is a dead tree stump in the garden it was hard to till through that old rotted stump. I picked up most of the rotten wood pieces. After tilling the soil 5 times in 90 degree weather I planted the tomatoes and bell peppers. It rained a few days then it warmed up to 90 and I planted beans, potatoes, onions, and herbs. It rained some more and warmed up to 85 again. I planted corn and okra temperature was 48 to 52 for a week and rain for about 2 weeks corn never came up and not much okra came up either. It has been warm and sunny for the past 3 days, 85 today and sunny. I took a photo of my garden as you can see I have done nothing to it for a month and there are no weeds and no grass. I tilled the soil on the left side today to replant corn. I have no mulch and there are no grass and no weeds. The right side has not been weeded since it was planted a month ago. Do I need mulch, NO. The only time I have spend in the garden is to dump wood ash from the BBQ grill on the potatoes every even after cooking dinner outside on the BBQ grill. There is a scientific trick to never weeding a garden and it is not toxic weed poison. The tomato plants are 28" tall with lots of blossoms. I should not say never, I do need to weed a few minutes now and then but so far I have done no weeding and never spend more than 5 to 10 minutes a week weeding. I seldom weeded much when I lived in Illinois or Michigan. When the weather gets nicer here I might spend 30 minutes a month weeding the garden. July and August when it is hot and dry I might spend 15 minutes a month weeding the garden. This is why I never mulch and I don't understand why other people do. It takes a lot of money, time, work to mulch a garden, a lot more work than I am doing in my garden.

Image

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Toxic1979
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The garden looks nice! Did your corn ever come after?

I'm looking into mulching for other reason also. To help with water and moisture control, and to help add some nutrient back into the garden. As for weeds , I have tilled a lot also, and have had some similar results as you. I find the only weed that really make it, are those really deep set weeds that are literally a foot in the ground and somehow indestructible! LOL Wish all the vegetable plants were crossed with some of the persistence properties of weeds.... !

As for all leaves from last year... unfortunately I was not quick enough to ask all the neighbours for their leaves. This year I think Ill offer to rake them all for them as long as I can keep them. If I tilled the leaves into the soil in the fall will it help with soil aeration, for the following year?

Also, if using cut grass clippings, should I let them dry a bit before using them? Of just literally remove them from the lawn mower bag and place on top of the soil between the plants. I literally have enormous amounts of grass clippings from my own property. Should I worry about it causing grass to seed in the raised beds?

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Lindsaylew82
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I go straight from bag to garden.


Sometimes, the grass is too wet for the lawnmower to bag it (that's pretty frustrating when that happens...) so we leave it in the lawn, and go back over it the next day.

Gary, if I don't cover this dirt, even WELL tilled, it's covered in crabgrass and clover in less that 2 weeks. My tiller is HEAVY and cumbersome, not to mention there's a lot planted here, kind of all over.

I tried doing it your way, and I was really unable to maintain the biodiversity and organic techniques I use today. When I tilled, I had to leave room for the tiller to go till weeds between definite rows. I don't have to do that, now!

I like mulch! It's really good stuff for us in my garden! And it has DEFINITELY solved a lot of weeding problems that we were having with the till and leave it lay method.

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rainbowgardener
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Toxic: RE " I literally have enormous amounts of grass clippings from my own property. Should I worry about it causing grass to seed in the raised beds?"

If you don't let your grass go to seed (which few people do with lawn grass), then there are no seeds in the grass clippings, just grass blades, which are leaves. It cannot put grass seed into your beds. That doesn't mean grass can't come into your beds in other ways. Mine are sitting in the middle of lawn, so even though I put cardboard in the bottom of the bed to smother the grass and even though I mulch well, little bits of grass are managing to come up in them. When I pull it, a foot of root comes out... Grass is very persistent. Grass from outside the bed can grow into it and up from the bottom. Grass seed can get into it from birds, wind, etc.

But your grass clippings used as mulch cannot put grass seed into your beds (always presuming you mow your lawn often enough that your grass does not go to seed).

Rue Barbie
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I would not have a successful garden without mulch. For me what works best is the free stuff the county grinds up from green waste pick up. We can either go to the facility (about 10 minutes from here) or arrange for a truck to drop off a load for a nominal delivery fee.

I prefer mulch with smaller sized pieces. Wood chips are great for paths, but around the veggies I want something that will break down fast to replenish organic matter in the growing beds. Many people like wood chips, and they do work - they just take more time.

Using mulch helps prevent soil degradation. Other things that can help are cover crops, green manures, and compost. The soil is alive with earthworms and microbes. To keep the soil community all working well, they need to be fed too.

Grass clippings, leaves, small chopped branches, city mulch, chips... It's all good. And generally free.

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rainbowgardener
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So toxic, you can see from this that many of us swear by mulch. But by mulch we don't usually mean wood chips. Even though the wood chips won't necessarily steal Nitrogen from your soil if they are just sitting on top, not in it, they don't add any N. Greener mulches like grass clippings, pulled weeds add N. Grass clippings by themselves can mat down, so it is nice to mix them with something. Part of the idea of green mulches is that they break down quicker and feed the soil.

I do use wood chip mulch around shrubs and trees. I have a chipper shredder and make my own wood chips from downed branches, etc. The reasoning behind this (wood chips for woody plants, greener mulch for quick growing things is laid out in the book Teaming with Microbes, which we had a discussion of here: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=43)

But personally, I don't spend any money on mulch. Grass clippings, pulled weeds, yard trimmings, deadheaded flowers, fall leaves, etc are free. And I don't see that putting mulch on the garden once and replenishing it once or twice is as much work as tilling. And the mulching feeds the soil, while the tilling UNfeeds it, letting Nitrogen escape into the air, disrupting all the soil life communities. If you do tilling, then you have to do fertilizing as well. I also don't spend time or money on fertilizer, just my mulch, compost, compost tea, which are all free.

But I do understand that it is a question of scale. I can give my 450 sq ft or so of gardens this luxury treatment. If I had fields, I'm sure I couldn't do that.

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MichaelC
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Lindsaylew82 wrote: My tiller is HEAVY and cumbersome, not to mention there's a lot planted here, kind of all over.

I tried doing it your way, and I was really unable to maintain the biodiversity and organic techniques I use today. When I tilled, I had to leave room for the tiller to go till weeds between definite rows. I don't have to do that, now!
I realize this is a bit off topic, but it came up in one of my threads as well. Not all of us who till use a machine! I do it all with a long, narrow shovel and get as deep as I can, perhaps just over a foot on average. It makes really good tilth with my cover crop mixed in and doesn't kill all the worms I end up shifting about. Perhaps what I'm doing is only a partial till?

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Lindsaylew82
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MichaelC wrote:
Lindsaylew82 wrote: My tiller is HEAVY and cumbersome, not to mention there's a lot planted here, kind of all over.

I tried doing it your way, and I was really unable to maintain the biodiversity and organic techniques I use today. When I tilled, I had to leave room for the tiller to go till weeds between definite rows. I don't have to do that, now!
I realize this is a bit off topic, but it came up in one of my threads as well. Not all of us who till use a machine! I do it all with a long, narrow shovel and get as deep as I can, perhaps just over a foot on average. It makes really good tilth with my cover crop mixed in and doesn't kill all the worms I end up shifting about. Perhaps what I'm doing is only a partial till?
My garden is 40x60 raised rows. I don't till at all on the rows. Only mulch and remulch and remulch. It's been this way since 2011.

Some crops don't lend well to the raised rows, at least not IME... I till a small plot on either of the short sides of my garden. I alternate sides yearly. I mulch it with grass clippings and chopped leaves. Sometimes wheat straw, but not usually. Even so, it's 10x40. A lot to do by hand. I'm strong, and I have a fair amount of stamina (I like distance running) but I simply don't have the time, and that is SERIOUSLY hard work!

When I lived in PA we had a small garden and I did do everything by hand using "The Claw!" Hahaha! It was very difficult. We couldn't afford to rent a tiller, AND I didn't have mulch! Those were tough days! It really just doesn't work out for me the way I garden now.

I have more to say, but I must go do parenting!

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MichaelC
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Yeah, I've only got to do 100 sq ft.

Toxic1979
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Well... this has been informative.

I'm getting ready to plant everything outside very shortly. My main concern going forward is to develop my soils. I'll be starting another thread tomorrow to show a few pics of my soil and ask for a few suggestions on loosening it, and helping develop it.

As for mulch... I'm a bit too late on the leaves. I'll stat bugging my neighbours this fall for all their leaves. I'm sure they'll all depart with them very easily! LOL. Most people here rake them to orange pumpkin garbage bags near halloween for decorations. I'm sure I can borrow them after halloween!

Ill try the grass clippings as well. We usually need to cut our grass about 2 times per week. And its not hard to get about 2-3 bags for the lawn mower each time. I may even have a an area to spread them out to help it dry out a bit. We get a fair amount of rain here as well.

I may try the bark nuggets in one the beds. Just as an experiment and see how it works out.I have 8 bags of them, and need to use them somewhere. Ill use make sure I avoid mixing them in the soil.

Another question: I'm sure most of you have seen the cardboard-like coffee cup trays that you get at some of the popular coffee houses.... here in Canada its Tim Hortons trays. Are they any good as an additive to soils, or even compost? And if they are... how would you recommend applying them... just tear them up and throw them in? I could have access to about 100 of them very easily. Everyone at my workplace saves them for me, and I'm also part of a communications board of directors in our community, and they also save them for me. Ive been told that they are excellent for compost. I was going to include them in my compost this year, but if they're any good for soil...... Input is appreciated!

Thanks again for the input folks.

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jal_ut
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I am with Gary350. I don't use mulch. When the crop is up and you have weeds coming between rows, run a cultivator through.... and don't don't forget: hoe, hoe, hoe.

Leaves, grass clippings and garden residue got tossed on the compost heap. In the fall after frost, spread it on the garden and till it in.

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Lindsaylew82
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Toxic,
I would just soak them for a few hours, and shred them best you can, and the into the compose pile.

But hoeing hurts my baaaaaaaaack! :> :roll:

ButterflyLady29
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My grandma gardened in the same spot for over 40 years, While she didn't exactly mulch she did lay paper chicken feed sacks and newspaper between the rows. She did that so she didn't get her shoes dirty when she was in the garden. When her 5 children were at home it was their job to weed the garden. When it was just me helping she spread more papers.

I use grass clippings straight from the mower bag. Just spread them in a thin layer and you'll be fine.

The cup holders break down eventually. Tear or cut them into smaller pieces while watching tv. It's a good winter project.

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applestar
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I use the cup holders (And paper pulp egg cartons) in the bottom of the compost ingredient collector in the kitchen. They soak up excess moisture and are ready to fall apart by the time they go in the compost pile.

DigIt16
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Lindsaylew82 wrote:
MichaelC wrote:
Lindsaylew82 wrote: My tiller is HEAVY and cumbersome, not to mention there's a lot planted here, kind of all over.

I tried doing it your way, and I was really unable to maintain the biodiversity and organic techniques I use today. When I tilled, I had to leave room for the tiller to go till weeds between definite rows. I don't have to do that, now!
I realize this is a bit off topic, but it came up in one of my threads as well. Not all of us who till use a machine! I do it all with a long, narrow shovel and get as deep as I can, perhaps just over a foot on average. It makes really good tilth with my cover crop mixed in and doesn't kill all the worms I end up shifting about. Perhaps what I'm doing is only a partial till?
My garden is 40x60 raised rows. I don't till at all on the rows. Only mulch and remulch and remulch. It's been this way since 2011.

Some crops don't lend well to the raised rows, at least not IME... I till a small plot on either of the short sides of my garden. I alternate sides yearly. I mulch it with grass clippings and chopped leaves. Sometimes wheat straw, but not usually. Even so, it's 10x40. A lot to do by hand. I'm strong, and I have a fair amount of stamina (I like distance running) but I simply don't have the time, and that is SERIOUSLY hard work!

When I lived in PA we had a small garden and I did do everything by hand using "The Claw!" Hahaha! It was very difficult. We couldn't afford to rent a tiller, AND I didn't have mulch! Those were tough days! It really just doesn't work out for me the way I garden now.

I have more to say, but I must go do parenting!
I just used a Mantis Tiller 7940 to cultivate a garden about the same size. It does a great job for such a light piece of equipment. Very easy to use so you don't have to deal with that weight of big tiller.

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jal_ut
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I do not mulch!

Grass clippings, leaves, compost etc are best put on the garden in the fall after frost and tilled in and left over winter to decompose.

I do not want wood products (wood chips, sawdust etc) on my garden at all.

nltaff
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I like the pine straw, and used it in my asparagus garden. I went to replenish it this year and the garden store where I purchased it last year no longer has it. I'll try elsewhere, but in the meantime, I'll need to use something. I recently gave my asparagus some nice bush beans, but they all need to be weeded badly. I'll probably mulch them with straw, but not today, as gusts are up to 20mph.
bushbeans.JPG
Cedar (natural, UN colored) and pine bark mulches are really a waste of money here. Mainly because of this weed that I've searched and failed to identify.
unknown1.JPG
unknown5.JPG
This weed spreads by fine, hair-like roots, popping up new plants along the way. The roots grab all the mulch, so when you pull the weeds, all the mulch comes up as well (just like with crabgrass roots). It also goes to seed really quickly and if disturbed, sprays its fine, dusty seed everywhere. It doesn't grab the pine straw, regular wheat/oat straw, and it certainly doesn't grab and waste the small stone that I've resorted to using in my foundation plantings. Anyone know what this little, spreading devil is called?

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!potatoes!
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^sheep sorrel

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applestar
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Yep sheep sorrel -- you can tell by the little "ears" on each leaf. Also has a lemony flavor. I sometimes pluck a few baby leaves to add to my salad. Doesn't oxidize and turn brown as quickly as the more delicate wood sorrel, although those leaves look like little green hearts when pulled apart.

nltaff
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Thanks, potatoes and applestar! searched a long time on those weed index sites one day and never found anything that looked like it. I pull bushels of it 2x each season out of my blueberry beds. Don't really want to use the stone mulch there (alkaline), but I'll still keep searching for the pine straw.



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