Watering Question

[PinkPetalPolygon]

I have a question about watering tomatoes, peppers, and stuff like cucumbers & zucchini...

Okay so... we have been having 80-90 degree weather for the first time this year recently? We are forecasted to be in the mid-high 80's degrees then back down to mid-high 70's

I have this argument CONSTANTLY with my boyfriend. He is actually driving me CRAZY with the watering deal... omg...

If the ground is WET

Do you "need to water"???

I thought you were supposed to check the ground by putting your finger in the ground a couple of inches deep to check the moisture level / to see if it is wet or dry

THEN

If it is ... not dry, or "not getting to be the point where it would be TOWARD dry on this day" -

Then I thought you were supposed to leave it alone?

My boyfriend EVERY DAY!!!! wants to water the tomatoes whether or not it's dry or becoming dry.

When he tells me "the tomatoes need water" I respond,
"Did you see if the soil was wet?"

And he never really answers because he refuses to check!

I knew he was coming to see the garden.. I was getting all nervous that he was going to tell me the plants needed water when I knew they didn't???

So I went to go water them in advance so he wouldn't tell me they needed water...
But I touched the ground...

And it was like MUD

And I just couldn't do it. I am too logical!!!

So I let it go and did not water

And my boyfriend came later in the day ...

And first thing he does is begin to water and I had to stop him...

So he goes inside and sulks!!!!

And I forget about it, but then like half an hour later I asked him why the heck he is acting so "poopy" and he tells me that he is upset because he is concerned the tomatoes need water!!

Cue a mild panic feeling and disgust!

How do you know if tomatoes need water?...

Isn't it kind of normal for them to look a little bit wilted during the hottest point of the day? Just like a tiny bit wilted and that's okay if the ground is still wet/not dry?

My boyfriend's method is... water every morning
And then again when it's hot water in the middle day, so you've dumped a gallon of water near them twice a day.

What should be done?

[gumbo2176]

I've been gardening for many years and often have to water, especially in the summer months since I live in S.E. Louisiana. If you haven't watered recently and the top of the soil around plants is wet or even damp, there is no need to water. Even when it is hot I only water a couple times a week, but I deep water.

Tomatoes, especially when ripening will often split if they are watered too much. This happened to me last year when we had almost daily showers for over a week when the tomatoes were a nice orange color just prior to ripening. I lost over 3/4 of them to splitting and subsequent insect infestation in the splits. It is also best to water tomatoes near the bottom of the plant and not water the whole plant to help with keeping fungus away.

I also like to water in the morning as opposed to late evening watering as it can also promote fungal issues. Give them a good dose of water in the morning and they will be fine during the day. Even then, many of my plants will wilt a bit with the summer's heat, but perk right up as it cools at night.

Deep watering is best in my opinion. Too much light watering promotes root growth near the soil surface making plants put out more roots in that area and they are prone to not doing as well as deep watered plants.

[KitchenGardener]

If you don't mind a piggybacker, PPP, I'd love to ask gumbo how often do you "deep water" and what, exactly, does it entail?

[rainbowgardener]

I water until it is starting to puddle up, let it soak in, then do that again two more times. After you have finished watering, dig down and see how far down the soil is moist. You might be surprised. Sometimes you think you have watered a lot, but still only the top couple inches are moist. You want it moist 6 - 8 inches down.

Alternatively, if you have a drip irrigation system, you can just leave water trickling for a long time.

Do it again when it needs it, which might be the every other day in the heat of a hot, dry summer or might not be for a week (or more if you get rain in there).

RE PPP: tomatoes and watering is actually a bit tricky. You don't want them staying too wet or muddy. Over watering is harmful; soggy roots cannot get the air they need. But inconsistent watering is bad for them too. Inconsistent watering, where they are going through lots of wet/dry cycles can lead to blossom end rot or splitting. Splitting is not usually just from a whole lot of water, but from a whole lot of water after they have been dry for awhile. In a dry period (especially hot, dry), the skins harden up. Then when the whole lot of water comes, the skin can't stretch any more. So you do want to deep water, to encourage deep roots. Then you want to wait until the soil surface is drying, but not wait until it is dry deep down.

If your plants look a little wilted on a hot, summer afternoon, that's usually normal. They'll perk up overnight. If plants are wilted in the morning, they need water. A rough estimate is water every 4-5 days in sandy soil and 7-10 days in heavy, moisture holding soil. But that is very rough. Depends on heat, sunshine, how fast they are growing, how much fruit they have on them, etc. Mulching helps avoid the fluctuations in soil moisture level.

[gumbo2176]

If you don't mind a piggybacker, PPP, I'd love to ask gumbo how often do you "deep water" and what, exactly, does it entail?

When I say "deep water" it means I will water the ground around the plants until water tends to puddle and is not quickly absorbed into the ground. This tells me the ground is pretty saturated and is getting down deep into the soil where I really want the majority of my plants roots to be. More roots near the surface makes it easier for plants to not do as well if not watered frequently.

I'll do this a couple times a week in the summer if there is little rainfall. It does wreak havoc with my water bill though.

Edited to add this:

I know how deep my soil has been worked and how loose it is, this will change if your soil is more densely packed and not as deeply tilled or worked prior to planting. The looser the soil, the deeper and quicker the water penetration.

[Gary350]

I NEVER water any of the plants in my garden. If you water your plants will grow shallow roots then they become dependent on water and die if they do not get water. If you never water plants they are forced to grow deep roots and as the temperature becomes hotter and hotter the roots grow deeper and deeper. I planted tomatoes plants and pepper plants, potatoes, onions a month ago, tomatoes are knee high all ready and I never watered them but we get lots of rain.. Always plant before it rains mother nature will do the rest. I have been waiting for the soil to get warm finally we have warm weather and rain in the forecast tonight so I spent 2 hours planting seeds, corn, beans, okra, squash, melons, more potatoes, more onions, and 1 sweet potato plant. The rain will make the seeds grow mother nature will do the rest.

If I water my garden that will make grass and weeds grow. That is why many people have so much trouble with weeds and grass, water only your garden plants not the whole garden. Do as mother nature does. People that live in the desert have to water some places it only rains 2 times a year.

[applestar]

Of course in some areas, Mother Nature is very grudging about letting rain fall. But Whether it rained or not needs to be also considered. I find once a week is not quite enough, even after soaking rain or irrigation, but twice a week is ample for my clay subsoil garden.

And frequent daily shallow watering almost definitely promotes shallow roots which will die/bekilled when you don't/can't water like Gary350 said.

Tell your BF tough-love.is needed to grow strong healthy plants, period. And particularly make note of what Rainbowgardener said about wet soil -- roots need to breathe. He might be drowning them with his kindness.

If you live in generally humid or moisture laden/rainy area, fungal diseases are going to be such a headache, especially if you want to garden organically and don't want to use the heavy guns.

Finally, flavor of most fruits -- anything that blooms and then set fruit -- as well as herbs will get watered down if you give them too much water.especially just before harvesting. So don't blame the variety if that's what you are doing.

HAVE YOU MULCHED ALL YOUR PLANTS?

[jal_ut]

Gary350 writes: "I NEVER water any of the plants in my garden."

Gee, things vary all over. If I gardened like that I would get nothing but the earliest of spring crops. For sure no tomatoes. In this high dry country, you best plan on irrigating the garden deeply once a week or forget about a crop!

[gumbo2176]

Gary350 writes: "I NEVER water any of the plants in my garden."

Gee, things vary all over. If I gardened like that I would get nothing but the earliest of spring crops. For sure no tomatoes. In this high dry country, you best plan on irrigating the garden deeply once a week or forget about a crop!

So true James. There is definitely no "One size fits all" when it comes to gardening and what it takes to grow things in different parts of the world.

[jal_ut]

Here in High dry Utah at 5000 ft elevation, the skies are usually clear and free from pollution, and that sunshine is bright! We don't get much summer rain, so to grow things we irrigate. My water comes from a reservoir up the canyon down a canal then into a pipeline, and I have gravity fed pressurized water in a pipeline. On the garden I use 4 inch aluminum irrigation lines with a rainbird every 40 feet. I set this up and let it run 12 hours each week. It provides a bit over an inch of "rainfall" in that 12 hour setting. The farmers on their fields use "Wheel Lines" which is a 4 inch pipe with 6 foot diameter wheels every 40 feet, and they can move it ahead each day and water the whole field over a time period.

You do what you have to do .........

[gumbo2176]

Several years ago when riding my motorcycle to Colorado to take in the Rockies, I passed through parts of Oklahoma that were being farmed and saw they planted crops in circles and used large wheels that traveled in circles to irrigate their fields. Had never seen that before.

[jal_ut]

Here is a pic of my system in action.

[jal_ut]

I don't know what to tell you about your watering boyfriend. Too much water in pots runs out the bottom taking nutrients with it. Yes the plants need water, but not in excess. Good Luck with that!

[imafan26]

Plants should be watered as needed. Sometimes it is hard to figure it out. What people said is true
1. Plants that are deep watered infrequently have deeper roots and are more drought tolerant
2. Overwatering is as bad as underwatering
3. Where rain does not come naturally, and you are not planting native plants, you have to water according to the needs of the plant. Most of the garden veggies aren't native to where we live.
4. More water is needed in the hot and windy days of summer.
5. Mulch and organic matter help the soil to retain moisture. Sandy soils need to be watered more often than clay

[PinkPetalPolygon]

Oh good golly Miss Molly.

Hey guess what!

Now all the tomatoes I own on a certain plant have blossom end rot.

Yeah yeah yeah, the type of plant could be prone to it

Yeah yeah yeah, we didn't fertilize in time obviously! Hah

Maybe my boyfriend will say they got BER because they needed MORE water.

Watch. I'm gonna laugh. He is going to tell me that the tomatoes got blossom end rot, yep, but he is going to tell me it's not because he's watering too much.

I'm gonna have to try to laugh.. because.. this feels awful.

Okay so
Guess what everyone


My boyfriend's mother... had problems... with blossom end rot last year on one plant... all the tomatoes were done/rotted and she had no idea why or what the problem was called

And LIL' OL' MEEEEEE <----

Diagnosed the problem, found the cause, and fixed it. (That one was kinda obvious cuz the roots were exposed AND/ it was probably being watered too much, heh - but the roots weren't visible so we had no idea until I got under the 7 foot monster to look)

I am going to have to give myself a pat on the back... even if my boyfriend won't the concept entertain that my backed-by-research DECISIONS are better than his instincts.

In a perfect world I'd like him to admit he... needs to ... let me try?

Omg it's gonna get to the point where he can have his plants and I can have mine and we'll see whose does what?

Uhhh

I THOUGHT I was happy we were bonding together and that he "caught the garden bug with me"

But now I am all thinking

Good Heavens
How I'd be feeling if he were watching TV in the house instead of wreaking aqueous havoc in the garden.

You know? I had been meaning to fertilize but every time I go out there the pots were so wet I couldn't water!!! I guess I should of double watered them anyway, I should of realized he washed out all the nutrients.

And he didn't fertilize because???????????
He's too busy constantly watering everything. >_<

(Which is ... just nonsense because you.. add the fertilizer to the water, hahaha!)

Anyway. Sad update. Let's pretend I'm joking
And like
My concerns weren't well placed.

I had no idea that a huge part of my gardening life this year would be fighting my boyfriend trying to murder stuff with water...

But as I say this I am remembering he did this the year before too... hahahaa
The difference is that this year he put $200 into it? And he thinks dumping water on stuff is how you guarantee your investment?

I'm trying not to get depressed, but oh man. Lol.

This might be officially depressing.

Now I am so paranoid
Fighting him on water

Maybe some stuff even needs water as I'm typing but I know it's been so waterlogged I feel dumb watering EVER. This is creating an awful situation.

Poor plants, people are so crazy! Saaaaave the poor little creaures if you caaaaan!!! (Hah.)

[PinkPetalPolygon]

Blossom end rot may have not been a direct cause of overwatering from what I understand, (other than the water taking out all the nutrients?) - because it is caused by a calcium deficiency OR the roots not being able to absorb the water...

Ohhh
Or

Do you think the BER could have been caused by too much water ON the roots directly literally?

When I blamed the BER on the overwatering, I was moreover blaming the BER on my boyfriend universally. Like he was "in charge" and here we are. (I would tell him NOT to water because they were wet and he still would water them anyway when I wasn't looking.)

It was like he would look at me, and think to himself - "she doesn't know what she's talking about, I know what I'm doing"

All the while I'm thinking -

"This is NOT what I would do given the choice"

And here we are with rotting tomatoes.

Lol I didn't mean to exactly continue my pity party in a whole nother post!!!!!

I actually meant to

Well

I realized I was so crestfallen I didn't day "Thank you!!!!!!!!!" For all this great information

And I was really really really really thankful for all the info

And it was very eye-opening

I knew that there was "no one size fits all", but it was really refreshing to read about the different methods in different climates.

The world IS wonderful!

[PinkPetalPolygon]

Blossom end rot may have not been a direct cause of overwatering from what I understand, (other than the water taking out all the nutrients?) - because it is caused by a calcium deficiency OR the roots not being able to absorb the water...

Of course I meant nutrients not water,

[PinkPetalPolygon]

P.P.P.S.:

The tomato question I posed in the original Post was for veggies in the ground
And the plant I have that has BER now is in a pot/7 gallon pot

I know that potted plants need a lot more water than in the ground though.

[rainbowgardener]

BER is due to calcium deficiency. But that deficiency is rarely in the soil; it is the plant having difficulty taking up the calcium:

The occurrence of the disease is dependent upon a number of environmental conditions, especially those that affect the supply of water and calcium in the developing fruits. Factors that influence the uptake of water and calcium by the plant have an effect on the incidence and severity of blossom end rot. The disease is especially prevalent when rapidly growing, succulent plants are exposed suddenly to a period of drought. When the roots fail to obtain sufficient water and calcium to be transported up to the rapidly developing fruits, the latter become rotted on their basal ends. Another common predisposing factor is cultivation too close to the plant; this practice destroys valuable roots, which take up water and minerals. Tomatoes planted in cold, heavy soils often have poorly developed root systems. Since they are unable to supply adequate amounts of water and nutrients to plants during times of stress, blossom end rot may result. Soils that contain excessive amounts of soluble salts may predispose tomatoes to the disease, for the availability of calcium to the plants decreases rapidly as total salts in the soil increase.

https://vegetablemdonline.ppath.cornell. ... lossRt.htm

So it is not as much about over-watering (though over-watering is harmful and can cause root rot and other problems) as inconsistent watering, going through severe wet/dry cycles.

[rainbowgardener]

But as above, BER really isn't much about fertilizer (although if you have stuff in containers and you water a lot, there are plenty of other reasons to fertilize). BER is about inconsistent watering.

[jal_ut]

Give the guy a big hug and present him with a "Soil Water Monitor, Hydrometer for Gardening", Oh, and tell him you love him!
Plants come and go, but hopefully you can keep a good man around?

[imafan26]

I think you should assign him to pay the water bill.

Even though you disagree at least it is an activity you are sharing.

[PinkPetalPolygon]

Oooooookay! I got it now!

The BER incident happened on our first hot day, like in a flash. I figured out what happened, I think I tuned out.

Just my boyfriend watering = terrible results because he works all day. What caused the BER was actually ME not tending to the tomatoes during the day, I'm ready to admit.

I suddenly remembered that my boyfriend's watering IS a spring problem. Then when it hits 90+ degrees (we are forecasted 98 degrees today), any water anyone wants to dump anywhere becomes a blessing???

I think I was more upset about having/not having CONTROL over my garden than anything else? Like whatever problems I had I was doomed to have because I couldn't control how much "precipitation" another person other than the clouds/powers that be was making fall?

I remembered (something I probably blocked out, hah) about the year before
Where I had a big giant pity party thinking to myself that I wished I had had the CHOICE in the amount of water that was falling on my plants? I hated watching the symptoms last year of what I KNEW had been too much water. I was residually traumatized from the year before

In addition to this being my first year with tomatoes in containers

And I just thought that *I* would be manning this project with research instead of arguing with someone else about the details every minute of every day.

To be honest, the whole process has become ugly complicated and I am barely having fun in the way I used to have fun with my plants?

It used to be - my plants need me and I will go to them and choose what I think they need

Now my plants care involves a big argument with someone else about what they need where my opinion gets disrespected and ignored. It's a different feeling entirely.

Hahaha. I did not mean to continue my pity party!

What I came to say was:

When it is 95+ degrees like it is now?

Omg!!! We need 3 times as much water!!!!

I taught my boyfriend that when you over-water container plants you are leeching out the nutrients. So now we are watering just until the water comes out the bottom, but not washing all the good stuff away.

And we are using this awesome organic liquid fertilizer for flowering and blooming (it is all purpose and you can use it at any stage though)

!!! I never thought anything could do what that stuff did?

This really is my first year with tomato plants in containers, and I guess I didn't keep track of the dates I last fertilized.

I'm not sure the tomato plants would have ever did anything without the fertilizer?!

When I fertilized, everything changed 10 shades of green deeper and started spitting out tomatoes.

No longer is there a watering problem in the vein of us having too much water?! It is blazing out there already, I swear they need a dose of water every 3 hours when it's going to be 90+ degrees. It's intense.

I secretly love it. Oooh. I NEVER liked heat until I had tomatoes/tasty plants that like heat like peppers or zucchini.

Now when people complain or talk about the heat of the summer I think ..

Heat = FOOD!!! <3

Anyway, happily ever after with fertilizer, and the sun to soak up all the water

Thank you again for all of your help.

Oooooooh another thing I've vividly discovered is that...

Tomatoes really can take a LOT of water.

My MIL tries to water everything like it is a tomato plant... I keep trying to tell her that some are desert plants. (The potted marjoram and sage are VERY upset! Although not a desert plant, The zucchini didn't look thrilled and the basil was floppy, but the tomatoes just sucked it all up without a bat of an eye. )

Maybe I should just let them drown everything so they can learn a lesson themselves instead of me trying to force them to learn?

The only problem with that was I wanted us to have produce, not a lesson about a dying-to-dead plant.

[PinkPetalPolygon]

Wanted to add:

Although my MIL also likes to overwater things, she is incredibly sweet!!!!

When the stuff she is over watering turns yellow, she asks me why and actually belives me when I tell her why. (I actually only try to say I know things when I know them...)

And secretly the other reason I know what happens when you over water plants is because I did it once really terribly hardcore

I was housesitting and plant sitting
Well I was helping someone who was a self-proclaimed plant killer, who announced if I didn't water the plants he never would at least

So it was my deal to water them in the dead of summer

And I had no idea what I was doing

I watered everything every day and the whole shabang collapsed.

At some point I expressed concern

And even the plant killing guy was like "hey woah you're not supposed to water every day"

And I thereby vividly learned the symptoms of over watering I would say.

We returned to sane watering and everything recovered after totally crashing.

And then I realized I was trying to mimic nature or something like that.

[PinkPetalPolygon]

But tomatoes in containers are a different story obviously. You can't let them dry out.

[ElizabethB]

Pink - you need to chill a little bit.

Watering should not be such an issue with your boyfriend.

A very general watering guide is 1" per week. Granted - some plants need more water and some plants need less water. 1" will cover most needs.

How do you know if you are providing 1" of water"? Use an inexpensive rain gauge

Over time you will learn which plants need more water and which plants need less water.
Take care of your plants and quite arguing with your BF. He is not properly informed. Don't even discuss it with him. 1" per week and you are good to go.

Another option is to have separate garden boxes. See who has the best production.

Best of Luck,
Elizabeth

[ButterflyLady29]

I think there is more to the relationship issue than just watering the tomatoes. Might be time to do a PRO vs CON list and see how the chips fall. Trust me, you don't want to spend the next 30 years arguing over if the garden needs water or not.

[jal_ut]

Hmmmmmmm, ever hear about "Talk" ? Talk it over. ButterflyLady29, brings up a valid point.
Get one of those lil soil and plant moisture meters.
You poke the probe in the ground and it tells you how wet the ground is.

[PinkPetalPolygon]

My desert plants are drowing, and I tell him not to water them and he waters them anyway.

That's where talking goes. Discussing = him telling me, "we're different people and I'm not listening to you"

I'm not sure how that shouldn't be an issue, or how it is something I could overlook, but I understand you might not like reading about how woohoo loca it makes me feel.

I had decided not to even talk about my relationship dynamics any more and feel kind of close to wanting a new username... the "discussions" I tried to have with my boyfriend were worse than I could of imagined. I wrote about it initially but this isn't like an abuse help forum so I erased it and tried to put it back to gardening...

It has been hard to work out what has been my real issues in garden have been, and I really didn't mean to be so mellowdramatic or all that over-revealing. To be exactly honest about what the tomatoes have gone through I did feel I had to explain the circumstances to get specific tailored-to-me advice.

And I just wanted to update today to say that we made a lot of adjustments and everything is doing a lot better with everyone's guidance.

The BER only happened on one plant, and the rest of them are doing great. I'm back to babying them. Some of my seedlings I grew from seed are bigger than my storebought plants: yay!

A rain meter sounds perfect though. Next year we will have our own plants. And I will watch him sneak water to them. And then try to compensate desperately until summer comes and we actually need all that water?

Or I won't be fighting with him any more.

I think trying to keep the nutrients in the containers was the best thing I could of suggested for him to do, and he really embraced that though.