...and other novice gardener questions.
I'm almost done tilling my garden, and all of my vegetables will be in the ground in the next 24-48 hours. There is one large tree that casts some partial shade on parts of my garden. I have already mentally divided my garden into 4 quadrants: Northwest, southwest, northeast and southeast. I also have 4 main crops in mind: Tomatoes, peppers, sweet corn and bush beans. I will probably have some squash, and am considering some things like cucumbers and okra. But for now I want to focus on the 4 main ones.
The northwest and southwest areas of the garden basically have full sunlight. The southeast has nearly as much. While the northeast has the least sunlight, but still is never fully shaded. I haven't spent enough time outside observing the sunlight to give you an exact number of hours of light for any of these areas.
What I'm wondering is which of these vegetables can grow with the least amount of sunlight. From some reading online, I'm getting the impression that my beans may be able to survive with less sunlight than the others, but will just produce less than they would if they had more light.
So, getting thoughts from you folks on the sunlight situation is the main help I'd appreciate right now.
Also, I've read about planting squash near corn (and possibly beans?) and that it has multiple benefits, one of which is pest deterrence. How would I go about this? For example, where exactly in relation to the corn should I plant my squash?
Another thing I've read had to do with watering with warm water. And I was wondering how important that is.
Any other advice on watering, planting or anything else vegetable gardening is more than welcome. I only have a little bit of gardening experience and this will be my biggest one yet, so I'll take any help I can get.
Thank you for reading!
Oh, and since I'm tossing random newbie questions out there, I read that fertilizers rich in nitrogen are good for corn and not good for peppers?? What about tomatoes and beans? Also, what exactly constitutes not being organic? For example, would using a little Miracle-Gro Shake n Feed All Purpose continuous release plant food make my garden not be organic?
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
Oh, yes I am from Missouri. I'm glad you figured that out from my name, because I meant to include it in my original post. I've edited my profile to show where I am.
Thanks for the great information!
The reason I asked about the specific type of Miracle grow is because my mom got a big container of it and only used about 1/3 of it and said I can have the rest if I want it. So, the higher nitrogen won't encourage fruit set or growth, but it won't hurt fruit growth?
Also, if you had to choose between which plants got full sunlight versus SLIGHTLY less than full sunlight, would you give the less sunlit area to corn or peppers?
Sorry to bombard you all with questions. But some of these specific ones are hard to find through regular web searches, and I'm very excited about getting this vegetable garden going.
Thanks for the great information!
The reason I asked about the specific type of Miracle grow is because my mom got a big container of it and only used about 1/3 of it and said I can have the rest if I want it. So, the higher nitrogen won't encourage fruit set or growth, but it won't hurt fruit growth?
Also, if you had to choose between which plants got full sunlight versus SLIGHTLY less than full sunlight, would you give the less sunlit area to corn or peppers?
Sorry to bombard you all with questions. But some of these specific ones are hard to find through regular web searches, and I'm very excited about getting this vegetable garden going.
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rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
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Tomato fertilizers have NPK ratios like 4-7-10. A high Nitrogen fertilizer will encourage big, leafy plant growth at the expense of fruiting. Corn is a grass and doesn't fruit, so it needs the high N fertilizer.
If you are using Miracle-Gro, you are not gardening strictly organically. However, you aren't trying for organic certification or anything. So each of us has to find that balance of how purist we want to be. I generally don't use Miracle-Gro, but may make exceptions on occasion. As an organic gardener trying to keep a garden in balance, with predators to keep insect pests at bay etc, I am most concerned never to use -cides (herbicide, insecticide, etc).
RE: if you had to choose between which plants got full sunlight versus SLIGHTLY less than full sunlight, would you give the less sunlit area to corn or peppers? I would give the slightly less sun area to the corn. Peppers are plants for very hot sunny weather.
If you are using Miracle-Gro, you are not gardening strictly organically. However, you aren't trying for organic certification or anything. So each of us has to find that balance of how purist we want to be. I generally don't use Miracle-Gro, but may make exceptions on occasion. As an organic gardener trying to keep a garden in balance, with predators to keep insect pests at bay etc, I am most concerned never to use -cides (herbicide, insecticide, etc).
RE: if you had to choose between which plants got full sunlight versus SLIGHTLY less than full sunlight, would you give the less sunlit area to corn or peppers? I would give the slightly less sun area to the corn. Peppers are plants for very hot sunny weather.
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applestar
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Oooh... Sorry to give a conflicting opinion, but I would have said less sun to peppers. But it may depend on variety. Hot peppers that only grow to 28 inches or so seem to do fine in under 6 hrs of direct sun, plus you don't need them producing a whole lot -- it's just possible I've never seen mine at full production. But tall- growing 4-5 ft varieties may be used to getting more sun.
Corn is an open field crop and need sun rise to sunset direct sun if possible. NONE of my available garden space ever get sunrise to sunset direct sun, so I try to plant corn where they are least shaded by the surrounding trees and neighbor's and my own houses.
I believe in Missouri, it gets hot enough that tomatoes can manage with just 6 hrs of sun, or with noon or afternoon shade. But this will also depend on variety.
Bush beans can manage with least amount of sun I think. You can tell when bush beans aren't getting enough sun because they stretch towards the sun and flop over. Pole beans will sometimes struggle until they get up high enough to catch more sun. Once that happens, the leaves that are better positioned in the sun can supply the vines growing in lower, or shadier areas, so it doesn't make any difference.
Corn is an open field crop and need sun rise to sunset direct sun if possible. NONE of my available garden space ever get sunrise to sunset direct sun, so I try to plant corn where they are least shaded by the surrounding trees and neighbor's and my own houses.
I believe in Missouri, it gets hot enough that tomatoes can manage with just 6 hrs of sun, or with noon or afternoon shade. But this will also depend on variety.
Bush beans can manage with least amount of sun I think. You can tell when bush beans aren't getting enough sun because they stretch towards the sun and flop over. Pole beans will sometimes struggle until they get up high enough to catch more sun. Once that happens, the leaves that are better positioned in the sun can supply the vines growing in lower, or shadier areas, so it doesn't make any difference.
O.k. to confuse you more. I put the tallest plants on the north side and shorter plants progressively going south. Most vegetables want at least 6 hours of good full sun.
If I want shade I would put the shorter plants in the shade of the larger ones.
Since this is your first garden, it is important to make sure you have amended it with a lot of organic matter like compost and if you plan on growing something like beets or carrot later on that it is deep enough to accommodate the roots.
I like to get a baseline soil test to see how nutrient rich the soil is to start with. The soil test will tell you pH and nutrient levels and give recommendation for how much fertilizer to apply.
If you want to be purely organic, it will take a few years for the garden to be as productive as a conventional garden, especially if you are growing heavy feeders like corn, tomatoes and peppers. Adding organic matter every time you plant and every year will build the soil microbe community.
Miracle grow will work. I am not a purest and I don't like to use animal by products so I do both, I add compost and some organic fertilizers but I also use synthetics especially for nitrogen. My soil tests do not require any phosphorus, potassium, or calcium. The fertilizers I do use contain micros (citrus fertilizer) .
I used to use MG on everything every other week. Everything was luscious and green, but I was over fertilizing. I did soil tests and I was extreme in phosphorus and very high in nitrogen and calciium. Mircros were adequate. So, now I fertilize mostly nitrogen in the ground and citrus fertilizer in pots. However, on the orchids especially I have swung too far the other way they need more fertilizing now as I have not been fertilizing them much at all since I stopped miracle grow.
You can use miracle grow on the garden, and it will help with the early growth, but I prefer to use a slow release fertilizer as a main feed for the garden and only use MG in the garden for a boost when it is needed. I prefer to use citrus food since the numbers are low and mine contains slow nitrogen. I also side dress with nitrogen (sulfate of ammonia) for heavy feeders like corn. Organic gardeners would work in bone meal and composted manure along with the compost in the soil before planting, but it is best if it is added six weeks before since organic fertilizers release their nutrients slowly and young plants demand more nitrogen especially in the early growth stages.
I would add 4-6 inches of multi-sourced compost, 1/2 inch of composted manure, and about 10 lbs of bone meal per 100 sq ft worked into the soil 8-10 inches deep. Ideally you want to wait 6 weeks before planting but if you don't
you can plant and supplement with miracle grow every two weeks for the first 4-6 weeks. That should carry them through to the early growth stages. Peppers will be slow from seed the first month but should be flowering by 80 days
Corn likes a lot of nitrogen and also flowers in about 80 days unless you have an early variety like early sunglow at about 58 days. The early tomatoes will be ready to set flowers in about 60 days but most of the tomatoes take 80 days to set.
Squash and cucumbers need a lot of water.
It takes about 3 years to establish a robust soil community and a productive organic garden and whether you use organic or synthetic fertilzer you need to add organic matter to feed the soil every year.
If you plant tomatoes you will need to have some support for them and access to train them up.
If you are new to gardening plan on spending an hour or more on the garden every week. You will have to water, so install some sort of automatic watering system to make it easier on yourself.
You will have to weed
You will have pests and disease and you have to identify and stay on top of them especially if you plant a lot of the same plants in a row or plants of the same family like peppers, tomatoes, and eggplant.
If I want shade I would put the shorter plants in the shade of the larger ones.
Since this is your first garden, it is important to make sure you have amended it with a lot of organic matter like compost and if you plan on growing something like beets or carrot later on that it is deep enough to accommodate the roots.
I like to get a baseline soil test to see how nutrient rich the soil is to start with. The soil test will tell you pH and nutrient levels and give recommendation for how much fertilizer to apply.
If you want to be purely organic, it will take a few years for the garden to be as productive as a conventional garden, especially if you are growing heavy feeders like corn, tomatoes and peppers. Adding organic matter every time you plant and every year will build the soil microbe community.
Miracle grow will work. I am not a purest and I don't like to use animal by products so I do both, I add compost and some organic fertilizers but I also use synthetics especially for nitrogen. My soil tests do not require any phosphorus, potassium, or calcium. The fertilizers I do use contain micros (citrus fertilizer) .
I used to use MG on everything every other week. Everything was luscious and green, but I was over fertilizing. I did soil tests and I was extreme in phosphorus and very high in nitrogen and calciium. Mircros were adequate. So, now I fertilize mostly nitrogen in the ground and citrus fertilizer in pots. However, on the orchids especially I have swung too far the other way they need more fertilizing now as I have not been fertilizing them much at all since I stopped miracle grow.
You can use miracle grow on the garden, and it will help with the early growth, but I prefer to use a slow release fertilizer as a main feed for the garden and only use MG in the garden for a boost when it is needed. I prefer to use citrus food since the numbers are low and mine contains slow nitrogen. I also side dress with nitrogen (sulfate of ammonia) for heavy feeders like corn. Organic gardeners would work in bone meal and composted manure along with the compost in the soil before planting, but it is best if it is added six weeks before since organic fertilizers release their nutrients slowly and young plants demand more nitrogen especially in the early growth stages.
I would add 4-6 inches of multi-sourced compost, 1/2 inch of composted manure, and about 10 lbs of bone meal per 100 sq ft worked into the soil 8-10 inches deep. Ideally you want to wait 6 weeks before planting but if you don't
you can plant and supplement with miracle grow every two weeks for the first 4-6 weeks. That should carry them through to the early growth stages. Peppers will be slow from seed the first month but should be flowering by 80 days
Corn likes a lot of nitrogen and also flowers in about 80 days unless you have an early variety like early sunglow at about 58 days. The early tomatoes will be ready to set flowers in about 60 days but most of the tomatoes take 80 days to set.
Squash and cucumbers need a lot of water.
It takes about 3 years to establish a robust soil community and a productive organic garden and whether you use organic or synthetic fertilzer you need to add organic matter to feed the soil every year.
If you plant tomatoes you will need to have some support for them and access to train them up.
If you are new to gardening plan on spending an hour or more on the garden every week. You will have to water, so install some sort of automatic watering system to make it easier on yourself.
You will have to weed
You will have pests and disease and you have to identify and stay on top of them especially if you plant a lot of the same plants in a row or plants of the same family like peppers, tomatoes, and eggplant.
Thanks for all the tips and great information everyone. All of my tomatoes, peppers, and corn rows are planted, as well as a little zucchini. I may till up enough for another row of plants to add more peppers, since I'm strongly considering trying to make my own sauces out of them on top of my normal use.
With the corn and sunlight situation, I decided to plant in longer north/south rows in a rectangular block rather than the square block I had originally planned. That way the south ends of the rows should get full sun or close to it, and I'll just have to see how it goes.
This will be my first year of corn and beans, so I'll be happy with any harvest at all and am considering the whole thing a learning experience.
My beans are the one thing I have that I didn't plant. I just read today that you should soak the seeds in warm water overnight?? So I guess I'm going to do that tonight and plant them tomorrow.
With the corn and sunlight situation, I decided to plant in longer north/south rows in a rectangular block rather than the square block I had originally planned. That way the south ends of the rows should get full sun or close to it, and I'll just have to see how it goes.
This will be my first year of corn and beans, so I'll be happy with any harvest at all and am considering the whole thing a learning experience.
My beans are the one thing I have that I didn't plant. I just read today that you should soak the seeds in warm water overnight?? So I guess I'm going to do that tonight and plant them tomorrow.