I have just finished tilling my soil in my new raised bed. I had very hard clay, so I mixed it with some peat moss, topsoil, and compost. My soil is a nice texture, but when I did a pH test, it came back very high. My pH test kit only goes up to 7.5, but the color suggests that my pH is AT LEAST 7.5, if not higher.
I read that Aluminum Sulfate is the fastest way to lower pH, but I'm wondering if there are any other methods of doing so, since using Aluminum kinda freaks me out (aluminum toxicity and such).
Thanks in advance
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kbrown1337
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Add more peat moss. Sulfur is the usual way to lower pH but it will take weeks to months to see the result. The same is true with aluminum sulfate. Ultimately it is the soil organisms that change pH. Peat moss has a pH around 4.0-4.5. Compost has a pH between 7-8 most aerobic composts are closer to 8. Chicken manure will increase your pH making it more alkaline by 0.05.
Make sure when you do a pH test that you are using distilled water, otherwise you are measuring the pH of your water.
Your water pH will also affect pH in the soil. If you have water that is high in calcium it will have a pH approaching 8.
Make sure when you do a pH test that you are using distilled water, otherwise you are measuring the pH of your water.
Your water pH will also affect pH in the soil. If you have water that is high in calcium it will have a pH approaching 8.
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Gary350
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Sulfur works but it takes a month for that to get out of your soil it will kill anything you plant.
Vinegar or any acid will work.
Do you live out west, AZ, NM, CA, TX, UT, NV? All the States with high ph soil have high ph water too. It does you no good to lower the soil ph if you water your garden with high ph water. The local water put all the high ph in the soil to begin with, if you water the garden your putting the high ph back in the soil. I learned that from living in AZ. AZ soil is 8 ph and all the garden plants don't care they grow good.
Vinegar or any acid will work.
Do you live out west, AZ, NM, CA, TX, UT, NV? All the States with high ph soil have high ph water too. It does you no good to lower the soil ph if you water your garden with high ph water. The local water put all the high ph in the soil to begin with, if you water the garden your putting the high ph back in the soil. I learned that from living in AZ. AZ soil is 8 ph and all the garden plants don't care they grow good.
Last edited by Gary350 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kbrown1337
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[quote="imafan26"]Add more peat moss. Sulfur is the usual way to lower pH but it will take weeks to months to see the result. The same is true with aluminum sulfate. Ultimately it is the soil organisms that change pH. Peat moss has a pH around 4.0-4.5. Compost has a pH between 7-8 most aerobic composts are closer to 8. Chicken manure will increase your pH making it more alkaline by 0.05.
Make sure when you do a pH test that you are using distilled water, otherwise you are measuring the pH of your water.
Your water pH will also affect pH in the soil. If you have water that is high in calcium it will have a pH approaching 8.
I have added 3 cubic ft of peat moss so far. How much more do you think I'll need to add to get my pH down around 6.5?
Make sure when you do a pH test that you are using distilled water, otherwise you are measuring the pH of your water.
Your water pH will also affect pH in the soil. If you have water that is high in calcium it will have a pH approaching 8.
I have added 3 cubic ft of peat moss so far. How much more do you think I'll need to add to get my pH down around 6.5?
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kbrown1337
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I live in Pennsylvania. So I should just add vinegar to my soil? How much?Gary350 wrote:Sulfur works but it takes a month for that to get out of your soil it will kill anything you plant.
Vinegar or any acid will work.
Do you live out west, AZ, NM, CA, TX, UT, NV? All the States with high ph soil have high ph water too. It does you no good to lower the soil ph if you water your garden with high ph water. The water put all the high ph in the soil to begin with, if you water the garden your putting the high ph back in the soil. I learned that from living in AZ. AZ soil is 8 ph and all the garden plants don't care they grow good.
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Gary350
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kbrown1337 wrote:I live in Pennsylvania. So I should just add vinegar to my soil? How much?Gary350 wrote:Sulfur works but it takes a month for that to get out of your soil it will kill anything you plant.
Vinegar or any acid will work.
Do you live out west, AZ, NM, CA, TX, UT, NV? All the States with high ph soil have high ph water too. It does you no good to lower the soil ph if you water your garden with high ph water. The water put all the high ph in the soil to begin with, if you water the garden your putting the high ph back in the soil. I learned that from living in AZ. AZ soil is 8 ph and all the garden plants don't care they grow good.
Buy some ph paper on ebay $1 per pack that is what I did. It takes about 1/4 cup of vinegar to lower a 5 gallon bucket of water to 6 ph. I lowered my water to 4 ph then dumped it on the soil. That will give your soil a ph of about 6. Then water plants with 6 ph water.
Actually wood ash does the opposite, it will make things more alkaline
Vinegar has a pH of 3 so it will lower the pH of the soil temporarily, bu it is also used as an herbicide so you have to know how much to add. Vinegar is an organic herbicide and it works by making pH so acidic that nothing will grow.
Sulfur takes six weeks to work. it doesn't kill anything and it is not a permanent fix. I have found that the natural pH of the soil will always swing back to baseline depending on the major influences like if you live in a really wet area the soils are weathered and nutrient poor and pH is usually acidic. Soils in very dry areas,like semi desert and areas where the base rock is made of limestone or coral, the pH is very alkaline. Other things influence pH like the pH of the water, the presence of other materials in the soil like calcium, aluminum, magnesium, the amount of compost you add (most compost is alkaline), and if you use an acidic fertilizer.
Peat moss will work right away. I don't know the volume of soil you are working with but 4 inches of peat moss worked 6 inches deep should bring it down a point. Peat moss will have a longer effect than the others because it usully lasts a couple of years.
The other thing to consider is that organic matter in the soil has the ability to buffer pH. Peat moss and compost are both organic. Organic matter buffers the pH in the soil and will help the soil behave more neutrally even if the pH is not ideal.
https://landresources.montana.edu/nm/documents/NM8.pdf
https://www.isafarmnet.com/ResearchPubli ... onf/E1.pdf
Actually pH of 7.5 will grow some things. Cabbages, beets, carrots, turnips and most other root crops don't mind a more alkaline soil. Some things like baby's breath and lavender would love it. You have to add more nitrogen and you need to make sure you don't have plants that are heavy feeders or acid loving or the micronutrients deficits will start showing up.
Alkaline soils are not good for tomatoes, gardenia, peppers, or any of the acid loving plants. You can add more peat moss to the section of the beds you plan to plant acid loving plants.
Vinegar has a pH of 3 so it will lower the pH of the soil temporarily, bu it is also used as an herbicide so you have to know how much to add. Vinegar is an organic herbicide and it works by making pH so acidic that nothing will grow.
Sulfur takes six weeks to work. it doesn't kill anything and it is not a permanent fix. I have found that the natural pH of the soil will always swing back to baseline depending on the major influences like if you live in a really wet area the soils are weathered and nutrient poor and pH is usually acidic. Soils in very dry areas,like semi desert and areas where the base rock is made of limestone or coral, the pH is very alkaline. Other things influence pH like the pH of the water, the presence of other materials in the soil like calcium, aluminum, magnesium, the amount of compost you add (most compost is alkaline), and if you use an acidic fertilizer.
Peat moss will work right away. I don't know the volume of soil you are working with but 4 inches of peat moss worked 6 inches deep should bring it down a point. Peat moss will have a longer effect than the others because it usully lasts a couple of years.
The other thing to consider is that organic matter in the soil has the ability to buffer pH. Peat moss and compost are both organic. Organic matter buffers the pH in the soil and will help the soil behave more neutrally even if the pH is not ideal.
https://landresources.montana.edu/nm/documents/NM8.pdf
https://www.isafarmnet.com/ResearchPubli ... onf/E1.pdf
Actually pH of 7.5 will grow some things. Cabbages, beets, carrots, turnips and most other root crops don't mind a more alkaline soil. Some things like baby's breath and lavender would love it. You have to add more nitrogen and you need to make sure you don't have plants that are heavy feeders or acid loving or the micronutrients deficits will start showing up.
Alkaline soils are not good for tomatoes, gardenia, peppers, or any of the acid loving plants. You can add more peat moss to the section of the beds you plan to plant acid loving plants.
In my area soil pH is in the 8.2 to 8.5 range and getting at least into the 7 something range is an ongoing battle. Elemental Sulphur has been the main vehicle for that. Aluminum has a tendency to tie up so many nutrients I will not use it. This year because my soil test indicated the need for nitrogen I have incorporated elemental sulphur and Ammonium Sulphate (21-0-0). As stated, changing soil pH is difficult and temporary as there is a whole lot of soil and very little chemical used.
Even though my pH is quite high, because of the fertility of the soil my garden production has been acceptable. Work must be done to be at a balance: N,P and K along with trace minerals and organic material all in the right proportions working together is more important than concentrating on only one aspect. That is why a good comprehensive soil test done every two or three years is so vital.
My opinion on vinegar is don't do it. As stated it is temporary at best and most of the time very deadly to plants and to good organisms in the soil. More a poison than a tool. Peat moss while being acidic is also temporary as a soil acidifier. To change soil conditions for the long term peat moss will not do the trick. It is a nice organic addition, however but more expensive by far than traditional compost from a self built pile.
Bottom line......Don't add just anything to your soil without first doing a good soil test. What works for me and what works for the guy three States over and for the south and for the north, even just a few miles away will not necessarily work in your garden. The folks with years experience at doing soil tests and many tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment know better than a neighbor with a five dollar pack of litmus paper and a $30 soil fertility meter of dubious quality. Experience is good but back it up with science.
Sorry for the soapbox. Most of all, keep at it and have fun.
Even though my pH is quite high, because of the fertility of the soil my garden production has been acceptable. Work must be done to be at a balance: N,P and K along with trace minerals and organic material all in the right proportions working together is more important than concentrating on only one aspect. That is why a good comprehensive soil test done every two or three years is so vital.
My opinion on vinegar is don't do it. As stated it is temporary at best and most of the time very deadly to plants and to good organisms in the soil. More a poison than a tool. Peat moss while being acidic is also temporary as a soil acidifier. To change soil conditions for the long term peat moss will not do the trick. It is a nice organic addition, however but more expensive by far than traditional compost from a self built pile.
Bottom line......Don't add just anything to your soil without first doing a good soil test. What works for me and what works for the guy three States over and for the south and for the north, even just a few miles away will not necessarily work in your garden. The folks with years experience at doing soil tests and many tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment know better than a neighbor with a five dollar pack of litmus paper and a $30 soil fertility meter of dubious quality. Experience is good but back it up with science.
Sorry for the soapbox. Most of all, keep at it and have fun.
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Gary350
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Vinegar works but you can not neutralize the whole world. Get practical till your garden then add vinegar mixed with water. You can lower the soil ph you prepared in the garden but it will not go deep down or spread to the rest of the yard. Check ph of your water it is probably the same as the soil. If you put 7 ph water on 6 ph soil the soil will soon become 7 ph again. Acid rain is your friend in this situation. Think of your garden as a extremely large flower pot full of 6 ph soil. 7.5 ph is not a big deal I would not worry about it. If peat moss is acid then add peat moss it will definitely help bell peppers grow 5 times better.
Wood ash has lime and lots of good minerals for the garden. I was very surprised to learn my Arizona garden did much better with wood ash the lime prevented blossom end rot on the, tomatoes, squash, bell peppers and melons. It seemed like the wrong thing to do to 8 ph soil but something had to be done about BER and wood ash solved the problem. Who would have guessed 8 ph soil needs lime.
Wood ash has lime and lots of good minerals for the garden. I was very surprised to learn my Arizona garden did much better with wood ash the lime prevented blossom end rot on the, tomatoes, squash, bell peppers and melons. It seemed like the wrong thing to do to 8 ph soil but something had to be done about BER and wood ash solved the problem. Who would have guessed 8 ph soil needs lime.
Most aerobic composts are alkaline and so are most garden and commercial finished composts and they are usually 7.5-8.5. To acidify the soil gradually you can use acidic fertilizers mainly ones designed for acid loving plants like citrus food. They will contain some sulfur. Sulfate of ammonia contains both nitrogen and sulfur. Vinegar is acidic but doesn't do much for the soil otherwise. Peat moss is acidic because it is made anaerobically.
Thats because woodash is rich in many different minerals, alot of them that aint said to be crucial for plant growth, but they sure are crucial for plant health, as you have seen.Gary350 wrote:Wood ash has lime and lots of good minerals for the garden. I was very surprised to learn my Arizona garden did much better with wood ash the lime prevented blossom end rot on the, tomatoes, squash, bell peppers and melons. It seemed like the wrong thing to do to 8 ph soil but something had to be done about BER and wood ash solved the problem. Who would have guessed 8 ph soil needs lime.
Many trees are lower in minerals today than used to due to the heavy forestharvesting/plundering. It has resulted in weaker timber, sure the plants grow but they are weaker. Same thing goes for all plants. Some can use less than others but you get the general idea.