ace1719
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Location: Toronto, ON

Garden layout

I'm planning out my garden for the summer, and I was wondering if there were any comments you had to offer.

My garden is a rooftop garden. I've got six raised beds, as well as two types of buckets. I have wooden bushel buckets, which are 18" diameter and 12" deep, and plastic 5 gallon buckets, which are 12" diameter and 15" deep.

In the raised beds, I have;
1) Peas (trellised)
2) Pole beans (trellised)
3) Bountiful beans (not trellised)
4) Dry beans (not trellised)
5) Anne Schwartz, Kabocha squash (two of each), Pride of Wisconsin and Gnadenfeld melons (two of each) (not trellised)
6) One zucchini and three cucumber

Regarding the squash/melon bed, I'm planting two of each type in a space 2'x2.5', and I'm going to let them sprawl. There's lots of space for them to sprawl, but is that enough soil space?

Similar question for the zucchini/cucumber bed. Each plant gets 2'x1.5'.


In the 12" diameter, 15" deep plastic buckets, I have;

-Tomatoes
-Eggplant
-Peppers
-Watermelon (4'x4' sprawl area)
-Sakata melon (4'x4' sprawl area)


In the 18" diameter, 12" deep wooden buckets, I have;
-Corn (3 per bucket)
-Ground cherries
-Rhubarb
-Tayberries
-Gooseberries
-Blackberries
-Raspberries
-Brussel Sprouts
-Kale (2 per bucket)
-Basil (2 per bucket)
-Asparagus (2 crowns per bucket)
-Kohlrabi (4 per bucket)
-Strawberry (1 per bucket, and let them take over)
-Beets (8 per bucket)
-Turnip (6 per bucket)
-Carrots (15 per bucket)

Referring to the diagram below, my questions are as follows;
1) Is the spacing of the buckets/plants good to ensure enough light?
2) Are the buckets sufficiently large for the larger plants?
3) Are some of the smaller plants over planted?
4) My roof gets very windy, is that a problem, and if so, what could I do about it?
5) Any general suggestions?

Image
If you're having trouble reading the text in the image you can visit this link; https://postimg.org/image/hnf7utuh3/

-"Up" is north
-Our building is 3 stories high, and the tallest building in the near vicinity, so there is no sun obstruction
-The weird box thing in the middle (with the lettuce and chard in it) is an outcrop about 5 feet high. That's how I access the roof.
-The long solid lines that run along the middle (between the peas and the corn) is a structural beam about 1' high. The one along the left with the spinach on it is the same thing.
-You can ignore the dotted lines. They are the outline of walls, which was used to determine the load bearing capacity to ensure that the roof wouldn't collapse.
Last edited by ace1719 on Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

imafan26
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A twelve inch pot seems a little small for tomatoes. I have 18 gallon tubs and the tomatoes still try to root in the ground. It might work but you might need to water them more once they go into production, unless they are determinate tomatoes which can grow in a 5 gallon bucket. Corn one per bucket. Basil one per bucket just to give them spreading room, Brussels sprouts, one per bucket. Kale, depends on which one you grow. The dwarf ones can probably fit two, lacinato, one. I would plant strawberries every 4 inches in the bucket and let them grow over. They will hang over the sides. I grew sugar baby in a pot, if you have a small vined squash or melon it could work.

ace1719
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Location: Toronto, ON

imafan26 wrote:A twelve inch pot seems a little small for tomatoes. I have 18 gallon tubs and the tomatoes still try to root in the ground. It might work but you might need to water them more once they go into production, unless they are determinate tomatoes which can grow in a 5 gallon bucket. Corn one per bucket. Basil one per bucket just to give them spreading room, Brussels sprouts, one per bucket. Kale, depends on which one you grow. The dwarf ones can probably fit two, lacinato, one. I would plant strawberries every 4 inches in the bucket and let them grow over. They will hang over the sides. I grew sugar baby in a pot, if you have a small vined squash or melon it could work.
All my tomatoes are indeterminate (Black Krim, White Tomesol and Kellogg's Breakfast)
One of the kales I'm planting is dwarf, the other two are not (Redbor and Tronchuda)

gumbo2176
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Tomato plants get huge over their growing season. Are you planning to stake them or just let them grow and cascade over the sides?

I've got a fairly large backyard garden (5 rows 45 ft. long) and I won't even think of planting corn. For the amount of space they take up and what they produce, I find it isn't worth it. When corn is in season, it is cheap enough at the markets. Instead, I plant okra and can harvest that for the better part of 2+ months before I finally pull them to make room for my fall/winter stuff. But I'm from La., and we do love our okra. LOL

Just be aware that container gardening takes a lot more watering than an in ground garden. I would think being on a rooftop would also present an issue with excessive heat during the summer months. Not sure how hot it gets in Toronto, but I've seen roof surfaces get in the 130 degree range in my area and not much will survive that in summer.

imafan26
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Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

I have a small garden but I do plant corn despite the amount of space they take up. It is the one crop I know, I will harvest everything from. I usually plant peppers, tomatoes, and eggplant in containers outside of the garden since they take up so much space. The garden in summer is mostly squash, beans, ginger, and taro which are all in containers, on a trellis or sprawling on the ground. I move the greens under the citrus trees in summer since it would be too hot for them in full sun .

Watering will be an issue especially since most rooftops don't come with faucets. Have you considered using self watering containers?

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Gary350
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Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.

I prefer to plant north/south rows so sun gets on both sides of my plants but I have TREES west side of garden. With east/west rows sun never gets on north side of plants. But trees on the west edge of my garden I have to plane east/west rows to get the best sun. Garden will start having shade about 3pm and full shade at 6 pm and dark at 8:30 pm. Short plants will be in the south and tall plants to the north. I don't want tall plants to shade short plants.

I like to plant a row of beans between each row of tomatoes, after bean harvest the bean plants are pulled up this makes more room for tomato plants to get larger. Tomato plants always get 4 feet diameter and 6 feet tall by Sept.

imafan26
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You can put up a wind screen. Basically you don't want anything solid to block the wind, does not help in the long run the wind coming over the top of the wall comes back stronger after hitting the wall. The better wind screens, let the wind through but breaks it up into smaller bits. Staple weed block or open weave fabric to a frame and cut slits in it to let the wind through. Shade cloth will also work. It allows air and some light through. Nail a narrow board over the staples for strength. It is pretty much what the construction industy uses for dust screens and it works for slowing down the wind without stopping it.

I would make sure your pots are well anchored especially the taller pots and if you are going to trellis tomatoes it needs to be a sturdy one. If you build a long box with partitians the pots can be put between the partitians to help keep them standing. A wide base will help keep it from tippiing. If the beam is raised, the box can be built to fit over the beam. The combined weight of all the plants should keep the box from tipping over but it helps if all the plants are not all very tall. Otherwise on really windy days you may have to add weights, but that depends on the carrying load of your structural beam.

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applestar
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Keep in mind that not all of these crops will be growing at the same time. Lettuce, spinach, kohlrabi, and turnip, as well as peas will finish up and be gone -- I would think even in Canada, especially Tronto with the moderating effects of the Great Lakes and rooftop sunny garden.

ace1719
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Location: Toronto, ON

Marlingardener wrote:You've gotten good advice about spacing, size of containers, and especially staking tomatoes.
I'd like to add a word about wind. Here in Texas we have wind and I've had any plant taller than 12" just lay down in the dirt! Whatever the prevailing wind is (here it is north to south) we plant so the wind will hopefully go between the rows, rather than hitting the plants head-on. For seedlings, until they get established, I sometimes resort to tomato cages with cloth on the prevailing wind side. There is still air circulation but the cloth breaks the force of the wind. We do this for broccoli, peppers, and even tomatoes.
Let us know how your roof garden does--it sounds very interesting!
Thanks for the advice on the wind! Since we're three stories high with nothing to break the wind, it can get very windy. My BBQ cover has been blown off my BBQ twice (don't ask me how I got my BBQ to my roof).

In Toronto, the wind direction distribution is wide, but I believe statistically the norm is west-east (blowing parallel to Lake Ontario). I'm definitely going to cage tomatoes, though I could certainly cage peppers and eggplant as well.

Going plant by plant;

-The melons and squash should be okay, as they are being grown along the ground, but what about zucchini can cucumber? The cucumber can probably be grown along the ground, but not the zucchini. What would you recommend?
-the berry bushes should probably be okay (they were last summer).
-Rhubarb, the root vegetables, asparagus, leafy greens, and bush beans should also be okay.
-Brussels sprouts are pretty strong, but what about kale and basil. They grow much higher than 12". Should I cage them too?
-What about the trellised beans, peas, and corn? They are going to be the tallest things in the garden. Are they at risk?

The quality of light is better than I've ever had in a garden. Beans, melons and berries are my gems. I've always had a good harvest of beans, but I've never had a good harvest of melons (I've only tried once, and this I've only been gardening for two years), so we'll see how they turn out.

Thanks for your advice, and keep it coming!


PS: when I moved here last summer, I brought some of my plants from my garden. Brussel sprouts, raspberry, peppers and eggplant were okay. They were all in 5 gal buckets. It feels very windy to me when I'm up there, but I guess plants are used to it.

PSS: I've rigged up water access to the roof. I tried lugging a watering can up the ladder last summer. For a dozen plants, that was fine, but that would be totally impossible with the amount I'm growing this summer.
Last edited by ace1719 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ace1719
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:00 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

NOTE*** I'm going to be building another 4'x4' bed on the left side where the squashes are. In it I will put the melons, and the squashes will go where the melons are.



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