Are some vegetables just not worth the effort?

[Kalak]

Ha -- this is related to my recent 'beans' post. I'm wondering if some vegetables are not worth the time/effort/cost involved -- in terms of the expected return (resulting food). I'm thinking of potatoes here, for instance. Keep in mind I have a small garden and use containers only. My potatoes took a ton of compost but the yields were tiny (possibly because I didn't do it right -- very new to this). Tomatoes are going crazy though -- not red yet, but out in abundance. Kale got wiped-out by slugs, peppers too. I've a lot to learn -- went mad and planted too many different kinds of vegetables, without having a clue about how this all works.

[Peter1142]

Can't say I have ever heard potatoes described as "not worth the time/effort/cost" involved... they are easy to grow, require little care and fertilizer. But in containers things are very different than in the ground.

The good news is you will have lots of experience for next year

No one gets a perfect crop every planting. In the end, gardening is usually a lot more time/effort/cost than the harvest.... you have to do it because you enjoy it.

[Kalak]

Ha -- I'm just a very impatient person, and was so enthusiastic when I started I didn't think things through. Love the gardening, though, so I suppose it can't really be measured in 'cost'.

Re the potatoes -- bought massive containers, paid a fortune in organic compost -- and ended up with a small bowl of potatoes.

Learning a lot here -- glad I found it.

[Rairdog]

If I was limited to pots I would grow dwarf toms and peppers since they taste so much better than store bought. I agree with MG about the herbs. They are the only thing I do grow in pots and I can bring them inside for year round harvest. I tried lugumes and curcubits in pots and they just run out of steam after the first couple fruit sets. I see a lot of people have problems with them. Potatoes are cheap and always available. They do have a better flavor when home grown. I can make a bland potato taste great with peppers and herbs. Same with squash.

[JayPoc]

It must vary. Potatoes don't work for me. At all. I can pour in time, energy, and Money and get two marbles and a ping pong ball. Corn also doesn't make much sense for me when the good stuff is 4 ears for a buck all summer long.

On the other hand, I can crank out lettuce by the bushel for nuthin. Peppers come out of my ears. Onions do terrific here, as do brassica.

Tomatoes do ok, and the payoff is huge (since you can't by real tomatoes in a store). Beans are easy here and worth the effort to me.

Find what works and specialize....

[imafan26]

I agree that some things are not worth the effort or should I say the return. If you have a lot of space and you can grow enough to meet your needs potatoes are fine. However, I have a small space, potatoes are relatively cheap and I would rather grow sweet potatoes instead because I can eat the leaves as well as the tubers and they cost three times as much as potatoes to buy.

I love asparagus but it would not be worth it to take up my garden space. But, since I plant it as a hedge along the fence and I can get two harvests a year for twenty years then it is worth keeping around.

I could grow radishes. They are easy to grow and they are ready in 21 days, but I don't like them.

I like carrots, but they are cheap to grow and relatively hard for me to grow so I buy them as I do head lettuce which is hard to grow in the tropics.

I do use spinach substitutes and cutting celery in place of celery because they are better suited to my climate.

I grow ginger (in containers), tomato (in containers) peppers (mostly in containers), beans, snow peas in the cool months, daikon, beets, assorted lettuce and greens, Asian greens, kale, cucumbers(trellis), squash (trellis), citrus trees (mostly in pots) and herbs (mostly in pots). The one thing I grow that is not efficient use of space is corn. It takes up a lot of space for the yield, but I eat every kernel so for me it is worth it. And I can get a second crop ( beets, lettuce, squash) planted between the corn if I do it properly.

I try to grow the what I like to eat; tastes better fresh;is relatively expensive to buy, but easy for me to grow. In a small space I have to grow what will fit and what is best suited for my climate. I prefer to put the annuals in the garden and the long term crops in pots. Some plants are in pots because they need special conditions.

[applestar]

I think it depends on what you are looking to get out of the garden.

I really think I like the PROCESS of gardening -- it began with trying to keep houseplants ALIVE and progressed to propagating them, then to growing edibles to growing GREAT TASTING edibles... And seeing how much I can push the envelope in doing things or growing things that are "not supposed to" grow well due to various limitations -- temperature, growing season, growing space, etc. ...researching and experimenting to find ways to grow them... grow them better... to find varieties that grow better using various techniques and tweaking the techniques.

So even if I get one fruit, one serving, or series of single harvests that are frozen until they amount to single serving, I feel a sense of accomplishment. When something doesn't grow well, I might try two or three times more. If there is no improvement, I might set it aside -- there are PLENTY of other things waiting to be tried -- but I'm usually influenced into trying again at a later date. Sometimes I have learned something new during the hiatus and I see success, then I'm enthused into trying again or I fail and I want to try again with a tweaked method.

So it's not so much that something is not worth the effort as somethings are pushed aside by other things. I just haven't figured them out yet or I can't see way to get what I need to grow them.

There are definitely easier things to grow and harder things to grow, and it depends on available conditions. I can say for sure that when trying something new, it's better to start with easy things so you are not setting yourself up to fail and be discouraged.

It helps to take notes and record conditions so you can compare from year to year.

[gumbo2176]

My garden, though not tiny, is not as large as many on the forum. Things I don't grow are corn for the amount of space involved. When in season, it is not hard to find 8 ears for $2 at the local markets for fresh corn.

Cabbage and cauliflower since they are what I call "one and done" crops. Pick that cabbage and cauliflower and then pull the plant since that is all you get.

Even though I still occasionally try summer squash, it soon becomes a lesson in futility with squash vine borers destroying the plants. This is another crop that is soooo cheap at the market that it's not worth the problems for me.

I love artichokes and have grown them in the past, but those plants get absolutely huge and take up a lot of space.

The following are what I always plant in my fall garden and it is getting close to that time to start preparation for it.

Collards
Broccoli
Brussels Sprouts
Lettuces (Leaf varieties only, and lots of different types.)
Kale
Swiss Chard
Beets
Kohl Rabi
Sugar Snap Peas
Snow Peas
Tomatoes
Cucumbers
Pole Beans

I don't get freezing weather until some time in December typically, so a lot of the things that do well in spring also carry over in the fall.

[Peter1142]

Don't get too discouraged, first year is the getting some basic learning. Next year will be so much better. I am gardening my second year and picking buckets of stuff a day. Container gardening presents it's own greater challenges though. So there are things to stick to. Peppers are great for containers. Eggplants are good, tomatoes (need a large one!) Lettuce. The right cucumber and zucchini varieties. Pole beans?

I don't grow corn either - it is a big space hog, this time of year it is available for pennies. Definitely not suited for containers. I also don't grow cucumbers, as I eat maybe one a month.

I got my seeds from good places this year, mostly Johnny's, and extremely happy with the outcome. One of the moat important things is starting out with the right variety from a reputable seller.

[imafan26]

After a while you get the hang of it. It will be trial and error in the beginning learning what will grow well for you. It is good to start out slow and as your experience grows, expand your planting list. Keeping a journal is a good way to record your progress. Don't give up too soon on things. Challenge keeps it interesting. Kale is easier to grow during the cooler months and if SVB are a problem grow butternut squash, cucumber and melons which are less to their liking. It is hard to keep them from coming since they can fly, but you can try to reduce them by controlling the grubs in the soil.
https://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/ins ... ne-borers/

Plant a diversity of plants not all from the same family as they will be attacked by the same things. Plant some insectary plants will attract beneficial insects that will be the basis of the garden patrol. Toads and chickens eat slugs. Chickens will also eat your plants and lay your soil barren, so you have to confine them a bit. They also scratch up insects and grubs.

[HoneyBerry]

I think it's worth it, if you have the time. Fresh from the garden is like a piece of heaven. The learning process can be frustrating. I think you are on the right track by narrowing your focus. Start with a few plant types and expand your knowledge slowly. You really can't put a dollar value on home grown veggies compared to store bought veggies. Home grown is so much better.

[rainbowgardener]

You've gotten a lot of good answers already.

What is worth it and what isn't varies widely depending on how much space you have in your garden, your climate, how much time you are willing to put in to it.

I have small garden space. So things that spread widely like melons aren't worth it to me. Zucchinis I also gave up on because they are so vulnerable to squash vine borers and squash bugs, I never could get more than a couple zucchinis before the plant was killed. Corn is wonderful, but takes up a lot of room and it really doesn't work to grow just a couple of corn plants. Usually doesn't get fully pollinated unless you have like a 3'x3' square of corn. And then every critter in the world LOVES corn. I gave up on the corn when I lived somewhere else and had room for it, because birds, deer, squirrels, woodchucks, possums and every other critter loved it (and we had plenty of all of those on our property). The critters wouldn't leave me any. As you discovered, potatoes are hard to grow in containers. The first year I tried it, I just got marble size potatoes. With experience and knowing more what they need, I grew golf ball sized ones. But they do taste really good, much better than store bought. If you have room to grow them in the ground, I definitely would.

One reason everyone grows tomatoes and peppers is because they are so productive. I also love growing swiss chard. Most greens bolt and are done as soon as it gets hot. Swiss chard just goes and goes from before the last spring frost until after the first fall frost. Garlic and onions are so easy to grow and take up hardly any room in the garden AND they help protect your other stuff from pests. I scatter them through all my beds. And I love growing herbs. They also produce all season and they are easy to grow in containers.

[cdog222]

Just throwing my 2 cents in here - I'm mostly repeating what other people have said, but I guess the more the general consensus leans one particular way, the more you might be able to rely on it

Tomatoes, peppers, garlic, swiss chard, kale, bush beans, and herbs are what I focus on every year. I've been doing this for a while, and they are the most reliable and 'worth it' return on investment. Of course return meaning quality / amount / cost vs. purchasing and investment being sweat / money / frustration / etc. You can't guy a better tomato than you can grow. We can eat delicious fresh tomatoes until the frost comes. Extras get frozen for later canning or processing into sauces. In my particular growing zone all kinds of peppers are a sure thing. There is such a variety of peppers that the practical possibilities are endless. Me and my family eat ourselves sick on fresh peppers and I dehydrate / pickle / make salsa and hot sauce / etc. Kale grown in the spring and fall is either eaten fresh, roasted with garlic (also grown in the garden) and olive oil, or dehydrated and powdered for later use. Garlic is easy to grow and is pretty much used in every dinner. The varieties are numerous and so much more flavorful than store bought. Bush beans take up any space that isn't being used or reserved for something else. They produce quickly and with minimal efforts. Picking the beans probably takes the most time from start to finish. You can realistically have a steady supply from late spring until late fall if you are diligent with planting and picking. And finally....herbs. I defy you to try to kill a patch of oregano or garlic chives. Most herbs require little in the way of the above mentioned 'investment' and provide a 'return' all growing season long. Dry your extras during the season, and you will be left with quality dried herbs for the cold months.

I have a modest sized garden, but the crops that I mentioned above have year 'round use. I do my best to maximize my output on these. Most of the time it works out well, but there is always a challenge to overcome.

Things that haven't worked out so well for me (and others it seems!) are corn, and most members of the cucurbit family. As others have mentioned, EVERYTHING loves corn. SVB are hard to keep at bay, and zucchini / yellow squash / water melons are readily available at local farmers markets during the growing season - the same time I would have them available to me if I could get the darn things to grow at home!

I keep trying - every year brings something different and I don't want a growing season to pass without trying something new, trying to refine my existing knowledge, or trying to expand and improve my modest little garden. It is a labor of love, but you will learn to get some tangible benefits for both your body and mind. Regardless of what you ultimately decide to grow, I feel that the best advice is to observe, adapt, and keep at it - the reward is absolutely worth it!

[kayjay]

Yet another "I agree with everyone else" post.

My experience has been very much like yours in the sense that I have a very small space, and I went ahead and tried a lot of different veggies... as the saying goes, "throw it against the wall and see what sticks." If you try a dozen things and only 5 work, at least you've learned 5 things that work. If I only would have tried 4 things, they may have all failed and then I might have given up.

One thing I want to add is how incredibly tiny your own little micro-climate can be. My neighbor two doors down has fantastic looking tomatoes and mine are barely ripening. Another neighbor not far away has incredible-looking container peppers, and mine look like junk. I'm amazed at how much those soil, sunlight and wind factors differ when the only difference, at a glance, is 50 feet and a fence between us.

My big successes:
- leafy greens, because you can just bail out on them, yank them and eat them at any time. Just keep an eye open for them bolting.
- swiss chard. I abused and neglected it, and it's still alive.
- zucchini!!! I love zucchini and wish I had room for more. I'm one of those sad gluten-free people and "zoodles" (zucchini noodles) are my favorite pasta replacement.
- hot peppers. I overwintered the plants and got a ton. Too bad I'm not a big hot pepper fan! Oh well, the plants are very attractive, and I can give away organic pepper flakes.
- cucumber. I'm not too impressed with the 'Chicago Pickling' I planted, because it went bitter after what really wasn't poor growing conditions. The weather's been beautiful and I think I've been pretty even with watering. Luckily, the bitter taste evaporates off in the dehydrator so I have decent cuke chips. I'll probably just do a variety next year that's not so prone to going bitter.

My not-worth-its:
- potatoes, carrots, onions and corn. Buying them organic is even cheaper than growing them, when I consider my space limitations.
- herbs. My dad's new lady friend only eats organic, and between the two of them, they had DOZENS of bottles of organic herbs, spices and spice mixtures. They 'dumped' them on me.

It's really interesting to read everyone else's not-worth-its - the cheapest I see zucchini here is .99/lb.

My disappointments:
- Tomatoes. My two container tomatoes are only just ripening. The ones in the ground are Brandywines, and they're sooooo slow, they're just ripening, too. I think I'll have to go with hybrids like I did last year. My "Big Beef" last year was a very good productive plant.
- Peppers. The two in the ground are just languishing and looking unhealthy. The one in the container is much larger with lots of flowers, but got attacked by slugs. I still got one pepper off of it and might get more, if I can stay on top of the slug problem.
- Peas and beans. They were fine, but way too small a yield for the space they take up.
- Butternut squash. I got one - 1 - stupid squash off this plant. All of the other female flowers rotted off.

Goals for next year: I got some pumpkin seeds, and I will try those on the trellis instead of the other winter squash. I also want to try sweet potato, since that's fairly expensive here.

Welp - better luck next year, I guess! It's frustrating that it basically takes an entire year to start over and try something different. A lesson in patience, in our instant-gratification society.

[applestar]

- Tomatoes. My two container tomatoes are only just ripening. The ones in the ground are Brandywines, and they're sooooo slow, they're just ripening, too. I think I'll have to go with hybrids like I did last year. My "Big Beef" last year was a very good productive plant.
- Peppers. The two in the ground are just languishing and looking unhealthy. The one in the container is much larger with lots of flowers, but got attacked by slugs. I still got one pepper off of it and might get more, if I can stay on top of the slug problem.
- Peas and beans. They were fine, but way too small a yield for the space they take up.

TOMATOES -- Brandywine is so famous but it's not the most productive (hardly) and is one of the "Lates" and even "Very Late" in my organized-by-DTM seed stock. (There ARE several Brandywine sub-strains with some supposedly earlier or more productive). When I grew ordinary, unnamed strain of Brandywine, it produced 3 fruits late in the season. I've mostly been concentrating on other varieties, though I may do a side by side of Brandywine strains next year if I can get two or three more varieties that I'm missing to complete my Brandywine collection.

Especially when you have a shorter growing season, it's best to grow faster maturing varieties. look for Canadian or Russian (northern) developed varieties. It helps if you grow them from seeds yourself because you have much more variety choices and later maturing varieties can be started a week or two earlier.

PEPPERS -- Definitely finding that peppers grow better and are more productive in containers even here. After this year, I will try to stick with the shorter growing varieties in containers and larger varieties in SIPs (self irrigated planters) I think it's the warm root zone issue. I suspect that as you go farther south, there will be a cutoff where container growing will be too hot for them.

PEAS -- I am still struggling to plant enough peas to satisfy my kids let alone rest of the family -- forget freezing extra for off season. So I can definitely relate. But in my area, peas can be grown before some of the other summer season crops go in the ground to save space. I've been experimenting with what would work best. I'm also working on figuring out the timing for growing fall peas.

BEANS -- if you don't have space, pole beans and runner beans on arch trellis is the way to go. Only space needed is about two square feet of space at the base of the trellis on either end. They will take a little longer to start but will produce until frost kills them and sometimes even when there isn't enough sun on the ground -- often a problem in crowded suburban garden -- they will grow up to where the sun can reach them.

Bush beans take up more space for the amount they produce but are good for tucking in available space when the air space is occupied by something else (great under tomatoes and cucumber on trellis after the all the fungal diseased lower leaves have been trimmed away for example) and they don't need as much sun. They are also only good for a couple of mass harvests, so as soon as they start struggling, they can be cut and used as mulch elsewhere and new batch started again or some other succession crop can take their place.

OTHERS --

CUCUMBER only takes up a narrow space if you grow on fence or trellis.
Most PUMPKINS only produce two good fruits and two more small fruits in my experience. (Though I may not be fertilizing enough.) For better production, check out seed catalogs that list how many fruits per vine. I believe Johnny's Selected Seeds has such a chart on their website. Don't be limited by "pumpkin" but look for productive "winter squash" if you are in northern area with less chance of SVB infestation, there are productive and sweet/tasty C. Maxima varieties, which BTW might be better choice for the amount of space needed than heat demanding sweet potatoes.

So far in my experience, C.moschata varieties (like butternut) take longer to mature and produce, and may need more heat (warm night temps) like melons than C.pepo or C.maxima.

[rainbowgardener]

But in my scheme of things, pumpkins are way at the top of the list of things that are just not worth growing. Pumpkin vines get HUGE; one vine could easily cover 100 sq ft. And they are very hungry and thirsty, need tons of water and tons of soil fertility. Definitely do NOT grow pumpkins if you are in a drought stricken area! And for all that you maybe get two pumpkins. And who even eats pumpkins any way?

[Kalak]

Thank you all so much for your great replies. This forum is excellent -- I'm doing a lot of reading here and learning a good deal, though my head is just about exploding from all the information.

I guess most 'success' comes from trial and error -- and gaining knowledge of various relevant factors related to your garden situation and the limitations of that. In my case, I probably approached it all wrong. I announced I was going to 'grow things' and not only bought a load of random seeds, but my family did too. So ended up with products that may not be entirely suitable, given the variables here.

So far, all I've got in terms of edibles are tomatoes, lettuce and beans (first red tomatoes today, but eaten fast by a family member, so didn't get a taste).

Things possibly not 'worth it' for me are the potatoes, corn, onions. Jury is out on beans, but only because of the extended cooking time. Also kale and cabbage, but only due to the fact the slugs will just not leave it alone.

Grew everything from seed. So far peppers 14 inches high, but no sign of actual peppers. Have one cucumber -- 2 inches. Very few female flowers.

Someone -- Applestar? -- said about the process being more important and I agree with that. Can't wait to get in the garden to see what is new (in my case usually more slug destruction). Can't keep a basil plant to save my life -- something eats them every time. Still love it, though -- the gardening.

[imafan26]

I have to agree with the pumpkins and watermelons, two or three are about the yield you will get from a 50 ft vine. That is why I plant three or four vines in a hill and they grow on top of each other. Gourds are way more productive for the space they take. I can get up to 20 gourds on a vine, and long squash is something that most people here know how to eat. As for sweet potatoes, they actually are productive in a small patch. I keep them in a container because they don't stay in a small patch for long. Getting leaves and tubers (double cropping) makes them much more worthwhile to grow than pumpkin vines. Although I do admit that I also harvest leaf tips from chayote, beans and peas so there is a double crop there too as well as a way to keep the vines more compact.

[Taiji]

For me, generally speaking, anything that is an experiment (something I've never tried before) is not worth the effort, since I am limited for space at the present time. Otherwise, I would like to try new things once in a while. But for now, I like to stick with tried and true varieties that I know will give me good yield. If I try something new and it doesn't work out, that was wasted time and especially space.

[digitS']

Of course, grow what you like to eat - or, what your family and neighbors like. Being popular is worth striving for .

Storage veggies are cheap in the stores. They can be shipped and held for weeks (months ). That doesn't mean that they are not worth growing. We like having a number of different sweet onions to choose from and green & growing is better than those in bins for weeks (months ).

I have had lots of room but didn't grow potatoes for years and years. Early on, I wasn't too enthusiastic about all the work, planting and harvesting. So, I decided to try them under a heavy mulch. Disaster! Voles moved in and set up a rodent city! That was IT for me ... twenty years passed and I became curious about all the new varieties. I'm glad I went back and grew some of those . I'm enthusiastic about my 100 sqft of potatoes, each season!

Fresh is best. More so with salad veggies than about anything. They are expensive at the soopermarket! Gardening has changed my diet. I eat lots of stir-fry vegetables. Fresh is best.

This arid climate makes growing tender veggies a little challenging but I've worked at it, and worked out some schemes. The easiest is to sow seeds and set out plants almost continuously. Saving some seed can save some money Sprinkling a few seeds once and relying on them is risky. Different locations and different weeks, even different varieties, hedge my bets on a productive garden.

Steve

[Peter1142]

I have ample space, so pumpkins are no problem for me. Melons on the other hand, especially cantaloupes, need a very long successful season and are hit or miss so I won't grow them again. Pumpkins are much more likely to be successful.

[imafan26]

It may be different now with the skyrocketing costs of food at the market, but I figured out and also read somewhere that if you take into account your inputs: land, water, fertilizer, amendments (compost, manure, peat moss, sand, vermiculite, perlite, coir, topsoil, etc), seeds, plants, seed starting supplies and set up, electricity, garden equipment and tools, time weeding, pest and disease control, waste disposal, etc and your time and opportunity cost if you chose to go skiiing instead, or use the land or room for something else, then you really don't save that much money growing your own. Unless, like James you have a lot of land; have established what grows best and efficiently; a clientelle and market to grow and sell large quantities of produce, you may just manage to break even.

Especially, when starting out, you may actually spend more than you would if you buy the produce, because you have start up costs for building the garden; seeds and plants; figuring out what grows well; amending the soil which might mean getting a soil test to see what you have; tools (tools can last for years but in year 1, you might have to buy a lot. Where tools are concerned it pays to buy quality so it does the job and lasts for years); seed starting set up racks, lights, grow trays, soil or blocks for soil trays; and a lot more hours just putting it all together. When you start out you may also not know where to get the best seeds, or where the agricultural suppliers are. If you buy in large enough quantities, you can get an account and save up to 20%. Most home gardeners are paying retail at the big box stores, and that is fine for small start up gardens and containers but it is also what raises production costs. The price of seeds now has more than doubled, so I am glad that I can save some of my seeds and for seed exchanges on the forum and with my circle of friends.

The reward for preserverence though is the feeling of accomplishment and really enjoying the fruits of your labors and knowing what really fresh produce is supposed to taste like. No more limp cucumbers, wilted greens, if you are lucky you will find a great tomato, but if not, you know there has to be one out there that is better than what is available in the market.

It is great to share your bounty with friends and family, although I admit, there can be too many chayote. Making friends with other gardeners who can share their experience; seeds; produce; and fellowship.

[kayjay]

And who even eats pumpkins any way?

Me!! I'm one of those Atkins diet low-carb types for the last 12 years. Pumpkin is unique among winter squash for having a very low starch content. Canned pumpkin has gotten ridiculously expensive here over the last few years. Fresh pumpkins aren't often available outside of Halloween season, and anything other than a little pie pumpkin is too heavy for me to carry on the bus.

Pumpkin's a staple for me over the winter. Pumpkin baked goods, pumpkin soups, and it's nice overall for thickening soups.

[digitS']

Pumpkins are worth using in the kitchen!

Pumpkin muffins, cookies, pancakes, yeast breads, and that pumpkin soup - it's all good.

Have you ever eaten the fresh, tender tendrils and flowers? They taste like pumpkin!

Steve

[Farseeker]

I eat a lot of pumpkin - soups, curries, stir fries, roasted - it's all good! It's thought of as a savoury thing more so here though than sweet. The only real exception to that is pumpkin scones. I'm hoping that if I get a few Jack Be Littles and Golden Nuggets I'll be able to give some sweet recipes a go though!

So far I've found everything to be worth the effort - even things that I haven't gotten anything from, because I've learned something along the way (usually what I've been doing wrong, haha).

[mabell]

iTS USUALLY NOT ABOUT THE MONEY commercial ag can do it so cheap but the satisfaction from growiing something you truly enjoy priceless