What size boxes?
I am starting my first garden and would like to know if my plan seems reasonable. I am growing for myself only and I plan on canning, I will be using 12" depth boxes with 10" of a premium mix of screened topsoil and leaf compost. I am planning on a 2x10 tomato box for 8 plants in staggered rows, a 4x8 box for 80 pole bean plants with about 20 poles with the pole bases around the outer edge of the box and all joined in a teepee on top with room in the middle for picking. I will also be doing a 6x6 box for two strawberry plants to spread and greens (lettuce, kale, spinich) until then. Do these seem like the right size boxes for what I'm planting and does this seem an appropriate amount for one person?
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applestar
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Whoa 80 pole beans? I think that will be way too many. They get very big.
...wait, let me get the pictures from my last year's garden...
...some of them are in THIS a thread...
Subject: Applestar's 2014 Tomato Gardens
...wait, let me get the pictures from my last year's garden...
...some of them are in THIS a thread...
Subject: Applestar's 2014 Tomato Gardens
It's not easy to see but on the left side there are three double bamboo stakes in 4 ft wide bed in the front and about 4 ft farther away in the middle -- so 6 double bamboo stakes -- and I'm pretty sure I planted two beans per -- that's 12 plants in 4ft x 4ft space. To the right of the picture there are 6 single bamboo stakes surrounding a 4x4 bed with one bean plant each.applestar wrote:Another sunflower opened
...but the first one is already bowing down so we can't see it now.
...also... I think I have to do something about the beans. They are swallowing the tomato garden whole.they also brought down 3 of the popcorn, though the husks are starting to dry and I have been harvesting them one by one. [...]
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rainbowgardener
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I agree, not big enough. I don't think you can put 8 tomato plants (depending a bit on what variety, possibly if they are dwarf varieties) in a 2x10 space. I have put five tomato plants in a 4x8 and that is crowding it. These days I put 3 or 4 in a 4x8 and fill in around the edges with other stuff. Two feet wide is not wide enough to "stagger" your plants noticeably.silylily wrote:I am starting my first garden and would like to know if my plan seems reasonable. I am growing for myself only and I plan on canning, I will be using 12" depth boxes with 10" of a premium mix of screened topsoil and leaf compost. I am planning on a 2x10 tomato box for 8 plants in staggered rows, a 4x8 box for 80 pole bean plants with about 20 poles with the pole bases around the outer edge of the box and all joined in a teepee on top with room in the middle for picking. I will also be doing a 6x6 box for two strawberry plants to spread and greens (lettuce, kale, spinich) until then. Do these seem like the right size boxes for what I'm planting and does this seem an appropriate amount for one person?
How many plants per person is a difficult question, especially when you say you will be canning. How much do you want to can? Are you aiming to feed yourself all through the winter? And again what varieties? Cherry tomatoes are very prolific and one plant will produce thousands of them. But they aren't useful for canning. But as a rough guide, five large tomato plants in a good year gives me enough to eat fresh all season and some left over to can, but not enough to keep two of us in tomatoes all winter.
You didn't tell us where you are located and that is critical. There are hardly any garden questions that can be answered without regard to location. But in much of the US it is too late to plant most "greens" lettuce, spinach, etc. , which are cool weather crops. The one leafy green which will produce all through the summer is swiss chard, one of my favorite things to grow.
]I'm sorry I forgot to mention I am in South New Jersey. I am basing these plans in what my best friend in TN suggests who has been gardening for 3 years. Although I value his opinion and he has some experience I fear he is being over zealous. These are his pole beans and mine is a slightly smaller version. [img]
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I am doing a mixture of tomatoe varieties but no cherry. Mr. Stripey, Cherokee a Purple and the rest a mixture of heirloom and hybrids-haven't decided what. I will try to stick to indetermiate. I would like to have enough left to do at least a dozen more. Even if I get a few it's ok, I just don't want to have too much to eat but not enough to can. Unfortunately my budget doesn't allow for much larger box sizes so should I plant less? And will that leave me with not enough?
I am doing a mixture of tomatoe varieties but no cherry. Mr. Stripey, Cherokee a Purple and the rest a mixture of heirloom and hybrids-haven't decided what. I will try to stick to indetermiate. I would like to have enough left to do at least a dozen more. Even if I get a few it's ok, I just don't want to have too much to eat but not enough to can. Unfortunately my budget doesn't allow for much larger box sizes so should I plant less? And will that leave me with not enough?
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rainbowgardener
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Yes, you should plant less. Trying to put eight full sized tomato plants into 20 square feet will just mean none of them will do very well. And they will be at more risk for not making it. The biggest hazard to tomato plants is a variety of fungal diseases to which they are prone. Crowding the plants that much cuts down on the air circulation, increasing the risk and makes it a lot easier for any disease to be passed from one to the other. And plants that are competing for nutrients etc are more stressed and more vulnerable.
Here is what the experts say about spacing tomato plants:
" Ideal spacing for home garden tomatoes is generally 24 to 36 inches between plants. Planting closer than 24 inches reduces air circulation around the plants and can trigger disease outbreaks. Large-vine tomatoes should be spaced 36 inches apart. Rows should be 4 to 5 feet apart. " https://extension.missouri.edu/p/G6461
Since I am like you, gardening in small spaces, I have planted them closer, especially re the row space. Personally, IME, I would say 30" in every direction between the main stems you are planting. If you do maximum crowding and plant nothing else in your 2x10 bed, you can get 6 plants in staggered rows. But that has all the plants on outside edges and corners. That means you have to have room to let them grow outside the bed. If the bed is to be fenced in, that would not work. To me better would be 4-5 plants with a little room for interplanting other stuff.
I think for starting out, you will find that five plants if they do well, will be plenty for you.
Here is what the experts say about spacing tomato plants:
" Ideal spacing for home garden tomatoes is generally 24 to 36 inches between plants. Planting closer than 24 inches reduces air circulation around the plants and can trigger disease outbreaks. Large-vine tomatoes should be spaced 36 inches apart. Rows should be 4 to 5 feet apart. " https://extension.missouri.edu/p/G6461
Since I am like you, gardening in small spaces, I have planted them closer, especially re the row space. Personally, IME, I would say 30" in every direction between the main stems you are planting. If you do maximum crowding and plant nothing else in your 2x10 bed, you can get 6 plants in staggered rows. But that has all the plants on outside edges and corners. That means you have to have room to let them grow outside the bed. If the bed is to be fenced in, that would not work. To me better would be 4-5 plants with a little room for interplanting other stuff.
I think for starting out, you will find that five plants if they do well, will be plenty for you.
You can plant bush beans. They won't get so big and do not require trellising although some may need a stake. They produce all of their beans all at once which is good if you want to can them but they will stop producing sooner and you can plant your succession crop instead.
I would put the strawberries in the 2x10 ft plot. two plants in a 6x6 space will take a long time to fill in even with filler plants.
I have a wide garden that I have to walk into. It is not the best idea but sometimes the garden has to go where the space is and in my case I re purposed a space that was already there. If you have to plant the middle of that space, plant it with something you harvest at one time instead of every day or two to cut down on the walking in the garden. I put stepping stones in the middle of my 4x8 foot section of my bed so I actually do have someplace to step. I plant the things on the perimeter that I will be harvesting more frequently.
I have lettuce, some peppers, kale, beans, peas(cooler months),cucumber, green onions, zucchini, and some herbs on the periphery. Beets, daikon, corn in the middle. I sometimes will plant squash on the periphery but I let the vines sprawl outside the garden. Tomatoes and eggplant in 18 gallon containers (they take up too much space in my small gardne), mos of my herbs are in containers, ginger, taro, araimo, lemon grass,most of the peppers, and citrus trees are all in containers around the garden and around the yard. The root crops need to be contained and the citrus trees will stay smaller in pots. Asparagus is a hedge by my fence.
I still get more than I can use, so I have enough for my family and friends to share. However, I am eating all of the corn all by myself. I only have 5 bush beans because, I don't like beans that much.
in my 8x16 ft space I have
10 heads of lettuce sown every 3 weeks in succession(8 inches apart)
Daikon radish (for pickling) 8-12 plants sown successively (70 days)
beets (55-70 days) I grow these in community pots and transplant out 4 inches apart. The number varies but about 12-20 per compot
Corn 80 days will take up half my garden space 47 plants. Sometimes I will under plant with squash.
Italian parsley, Cutting celery, and rakkyo biennial
Zuchhini (currently in garden 1 plant)
Cucumber Suyo long ( 2 plants on one tomato cage trellis)
Kale - 3 Curly Vates, 2 Siberian.
Swiss chard 3
Aloe- temporarily permanent
In pots
Roleks eggplant in 18 gal container= 1
Tabasco pepper in 20 inch pot = 1 (This is a new one but the last one was 8 years old)
3 tomatoes in 18 gal containers with CRW trellis Red Cherry, Beefsteak, and a F2 generation yellow cherry (originally sun gold hybrid)
rosemary in 16 inch terra cotta pot
16 citrus trees in pots, various kinds
Ginger in 15 gallon pot
Araimo in 5 different pots about 3 gallons each.
Coffee arabica (very old and not well taken care of)
Mary Washington Asparagus 12 plants started from crowns that still need to be planted out
Lavender, roselle, lemon grass, pandan, pineapple sage, citrossa, multiple varieties of peppers hot and sweet , bay leaf, meyer lemons, holy basil, green onions, mint (peppermint, spearmint, chocolate mint, pineapple mint), marjoram, Greek oregano, Thyme (French, English, and lemon), low bearing papaya ( will eventually be planted out they are still only a couple of inches tall).
In the ground have California bay leaf, Murraya koenegii (Indian curry tree), and bilimbi([pickle fruit)
I also take care of the herb garden in Pearl City and I have a community garden as well.
There are also orchids and other ornamentals in pots and in the ground all over the yard.
So you see you can get a lot of variety in a smallish space. Not everything has to go in the garden.
Herbs for the most part are fine in containers, tomatoes take up too much garden space in the bed, peppers are for the Pearl City garden as well as my own use, most will last more than one year and get big so they have more room to grow in containers. Containers dwarf the citrus trees, I will not get as much fruit from each tree but they won't take over my yard either, I hope.
I plant in the garden bed mostly short term crops although I have a section for longer plants. Things that can be interplanted and spaced relatively close and harvested early or all at once.
I would put the strawberries in the 2x10 ft plot. two plants in a 6x6 space will take a long time to fill in even with filler plants.
I have a wide garden that I have to walk into. It is not the best idea but sometimes the garden has to go where the space is and in my case I re purposed a space that was already there. If you have to plant the middle of that space, plant it with something you harvest at one time instead of every day or two to cut down on the walking in the garden. I put stepping stones in the middle of my 4x8 foot section of my bed so I actually do have someplace to step. I plant the things on the perimeter that I will be harvesting more frequently.
I have lettuce, some peppers, kale, beans, peas(cooler months),cucumber, green onions, zucchini, and some herbs on the periphery. Beets, daikon, corn in the middle. I sometimes will plant squash on the periphery but I let the vines sprawl outside the garden. Tomatoes and eggplant in 18 gallon containers (they take up too much space in my small gardne), mos of my herbs are in containers, ginger, taro, araimo, lemon grass,most of the peppers, and citrus trees are all in containers around the garden and around the yard. The root crops need to be contained and the citrus trees will stay smaller in pots. Asparagus is a hedge by my fence.
I still get more than I can use, so I have enough for my family and friends to share. However, I am eating all of the corn all by myself. I only have 5 bush beans because, I don't like beans that much.
in my 8x16 ft space I have
10 heads of lettuce sown every 3 weeks in succession(8 inches apart)
Daikon radish (for pickling) 8-12 plants sown successively (70 days)
beets (55-70 days) I grow these in community pots and transplant out 4 inches apart. The number varies but about 12-20 per compot
Corn 80 days will take up half my garden space 47 plants. Sometimes I will under plant with squash.
Italian parsley, Cutting celery, and rakkyo biennial
Zuchhini (currently in garden 1 plant)
Cucumber Suyo long ( 2 plants on one tomato cage trellis)
Kale - 3 Curly Vates, 2 Siberian.
Swiss chard 3
Aloe- temporarily permanent
In pots
Roleks eggplant in 18 gal container= 1
Tabasco pepper in 20 inch pot = 1 (This is a new one but the last one was 8 years old)
3 tomatoes in 18 gal containers with CRW trellis Red Cherry, Beefsteak, and a F2 generation yellow cherry (originally sun gold hybrid)
rosemary in 16 inch terra cotta pot
16 citrus trees in pots, various kinds
Ginger in 15 gallon pot
Araimo in 5 different pots about 3 gallons each.
Coffee arabica (very old and not well taken care of)
Mary Washington Asparagus 12 plants started from crowns that still need to be planted out
Lavender, roselle, lemon grass, pandan, pineapple sage, citrossa, multiple varieties of peppers hot and sweet , bay leaf, meyer lemons, holy basil, green onions, mint (peppermint, spearmint, chocolate mint, pineapple mint), marjoram, Greek oregano, Thyme (French, English, and lemon), low bearing papaya ( will eventually be planted out they are still only a couple of inches tall).
In the ground have California bay leaf, Murraya koenegii (Indian curry tree), and bilimbi([pickle fruit)
I also take care of the herb garden in Pearl City and I have a community garden as well.
There are also orchids and other ornamentals in pots and in the ground all over the yard.
So you see you can get a lot of variety in a smallish space. Not everything has to go in the garden.
Herbs for the most part are fine in containers, tomatoes take up too much garden space in the bed, peppers are for the Pearl City garden as well as my own use, most will last more than one year and get big so they have more room to grow in containers. Containers dwarf the citrus trees, I will not get as much fruit from each tree but they won't take over my yard either, I hope.
I plant in the garden bed mostly short term crops although I have a section for longer plants. Things that can be interplanted and spaced relatively close and harvested early or all at once.
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CharlieBear
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If you haven't built the beds yet you might consider sizing them the same say 3x 8 or 10, that way you can rotate the plants back and forth between the two boxes, 3 boxes would be better for rotation purposes. If you use the same box over and over year after year you are inviting disease problems. Note the spacing requirement for tomatoes is 3 ft if you want the to do well. You also didn't say what you are going to do with the tomatoes, If it is only for fresh eating that could be a lot of tomato plants. If you are going to freeze, can or dry the excess then maybe not.