I had this discussion today with a co worker.
The boss wants everything to be big so they have the weight to sell.
We are growing Russian kale and they let the leaves get very big before harvesting them. Russian kale can get pretty big, but they are a sweeter kale, but I usually like the younger and smaller leaves for salad. When it gets so big it is cooked or juiced.
Same with beets. The boss wants the beets big, so it is usually being harvested when the tops are all full of spots and shriveling up instead of when the beets are two inches in diameter with nice edible tops. I have kept a beet that got very big, but by then it was very woody. Bigger beets are o.k. for roasting, but not so nice for boiling, they take over an hour to cook. Same with radishes, they should be ready in twenty one days, but they wait until they get very big, by then many of them are cracking. Radishes get very bitter when they get old, they are already bitter to start with.
Right now, I have Jicama and it has bloomed and the seed pods are loaded, but I can't feel the roots. When is it time to harvest. Do I wait until after the pods start to dry?
I finally got some black cheery tomatoes today. The birds must have found something they like better. I took no chances this time, I picked all that ones that were even starting to blush.
Days to maturity does not always work for everything. I does work corn, but not so much for carrots which always seem to take longer.
I know with squash and melons, the signs to look for them they are ready.
How do you know when things are ready to harvest?
It isn't easy, Imafan!
If you have a few crops, few varieties, I suppose it's different. Experience is important. DW, who is younger and even younger to gardening, is better at it than I am. Knowing how to produce shop is part of the skill but so often we are relying on the stores to have acceptable products. Just looking for blemishes doesn't get a person very far.
Somethings, I don't care much for. You mention kale for salads. I'm far more interested in cooking it and fully intend to use the nice tender leaves just for that purpose. I don't care much for mature beet roots. Imma big fan
of baby beets! I want to harvest the plants before they go beyond having marble-sized roots and use the entire plant. Oh boy, they are about my favorite veggie!
Green beans before they are stringy, eat one raw in the garden to get an idea. Of course, any type of peas is probably better raw. Sample, sample!
Eating and experience with your veggies in the kitchen is probably the most important thing
. I will do the "last minute rescue" of the crop ... before it's lost. But, that isn't a very good policy. Ya gotta maintain some standards out there!
I like to eat what I grow.
Oh yeah, those days-to-maturity ... those are perfect growing days or somebody's guess. They sure don't reflect reality for much of anything in my cool-spring, cool-nights environment!
Steve
If you have a few crops, few varieties, I suppose it's different. Experience is important. DW, who is younger and even younger to gardening, is better at it than I am. Knowing how to produce shop is part of the skill but so often we are relying on the stores to have acceptable products. Just looking for blemishes doesn't get a person very far.
Somethings, I don't care much for. You mention kale for salads. I'm far more interested in cooking it and fully intend to use the nice tender leaves just for that purpose. I don't care much for mature beet roots. Imma big fan
of baby beets! I want to harvest the plants before they go beyond having marble-sized roots and use the entire plant. Oh boy, they are about my favorite veggie!Green beans before they are stringy, eat one raw in the garden to get an idea. Of course, any type of peas is probably better raw. Sample, sample!
Eating and experience with your veggies in the kitchen is probably the most important thing
. I will do the "last minute rescue" of the crop ... before it's lost. But, that isn't a very good policy. Ya gotta maintain some standards out there!I like to eat what I grow
.Oh yeah, those days-to-maturity ... those are perfect growing days or somebody's guess. They sure don't reflect reality for much of anything in my cool-spring, cool-nights environment!
Steve
Yeah, the corn comes close. But when the weather gets cooler,and the days get shorter, the corn doesn't even grow that fast. But I can tell by when the tassels appear it should be about 10 days before the ears are ready to pick and the corn ear tilts downward a little more. There is of course feeling the kernels and opening the top and checking the kernels visually.
Chinese peas (snow peas) and pole beans have to be picked every couple of days or the seeds get too big. Even so, I will still miss some of the pods and find them too late to eat. they hide really well.
I like my beets young too. The tops are yummy and such a waste to let them get all fungusy shrivelled and dry.
Kale, I like the young leaves in salad. I didn't used to like kale by I was invited along with some other friends to a kale day where we made kale chips, kale salads, and rolls. We each did some research and brought recipes. I brought my toscano kale from my yard. It was a fun time sharing, and the recipes were soo good that I now love kale in salads. Before I only liked them cooked with ham hocks and beans much the same way that collard greens are prepared.
I never did figure out when the hon tsai tai was ready. It started blooming and I still couldn't figure out what I was supposed to harvest. Then is started reseeding too. It was everywhere.
I did finally figure out when the Bartlett pear was ready. Pretty much between Sept 25 and October 25. The skin gets a little lighter yellow. Before then it is really a rock and it does not ripen off the tree if it is picked early. Usually the birds will eventually eat it off the tree.
I gave up on my napa cabbage too soon, I thought it was done, but later another one that I forgot about finally started forming a head.
If the tomatoes are good, then I have to pick them at first blush or either the birds or the snails will get them.
I grew a Tahitian squash one year that took over my back yard and went through the fence into the neighbor's yard. The squash was huge but since it did not turn color, I never figured out when it was ripe. It was awful, I think it still wasn't ripe when I cut it.
Chinese peas (snow peas) and pole beans have to be picked every couple of days or the seeds get too big. Even so, I will still miss some of the pods and find them too late to eat. they hide really well.
I like my beets young too. The tops are yummy and such a waste to let them get all fungusy shrivelled and dry.
Kale, I like the young leaves in salad. I didn't used to like kale by I was invited along with some other friends to a kale day where we made kale chips, kale salads, and rolls. We each did some research and brought recipes. I brought my toscano kale from my yard. It was a fun time sharing, and the recipes were soo good that I now love kale in salads. Before I only liked them cooked with ham hocks and beans much the same way that collard greens are prepared.
I never did figure out when the hon tsai tai was ready. It started blooming and I still couldn't figure out what I was supposed to harvest. Then is started reseeding too. It was everywhere.
I did finally figure out when the Bartlett pear was ready. Pretty much between Sept 25 and October 25. The skin gets a little lighter yellow. Before then it is really a rock and it does not ripen off the tree if it is picked early. Usually the birds will eventually eat it off the tree.
I gave up on my napa cabbage too soon, I thought it was done, but later another one that I forgot about finally started forming a head.
If the tomatoes are good, then I have to pick them at first blush or either the birds or the snails will get them.
I grew a Tahitian squash one year that took over my back yard and went through the fence into the neighbor's yard. The squash was huge but since it did not turn color, I never figured out when it was ripe. It was awful, I think it still wasn't ripe when I cut it.
Mom used Scotch kale in soup with pearled barley and beef. And, I've done that but it usually shows up on my table as stir-fry. I will use Scotch or Portuguese kale with beans and beef or sausage as soup. I've just begun again to make an unsmoked sausage and am looking forward to the 2015 kale and using my own sausage .
I grew collards once or twice. It was long ago and I have trouble remembering anything other than that they didn't do well ...
Imafan26 said, "I never did figure out when the hon tsai tai was ready. It started blooming and I still couldn't figure out what I was supposed to harvest." There seems to be quite a bit of difference between the choy sum varieties. I haven't grown the purple choy sum.
The green variety I grow, I'm not sure where it came from but I have saved seed and have grown it most seasons for about 20 years. I do not eat it at flowering stage. It isn't like guy lon or bok choy - when my choy sum flowers, it's gone round the bend.
Steve
. I grew collards once or twice. It was long ago and I have trouble remembering anything other than that they didn't do well ...
Imafan26 said, "I never did figure out when the hon tsai tai was ready. It started blooming and I still couldn't figure out what I was supposed to harvest." There seems to be quite a bit of difference between the choy sum varieties. I haven't grown the purple choy sum.
The green variety I grow, I'm not sure where it came from but I have saved seed and have grown it most seasons for about 20 years. I do not eat it at flowering stage. It isn't like guy lon or bok choy - when my choy sum flowers, it's gone round the bend.
Steve
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pepperhead212
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 2882
- Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:52 pm
- Location: Woodbury NJ Zone 7a/7b
Hon Tsai Tai is one of the few Asian greens that I didn't get much out of, in the spring or fall. It definitely bolted as soon as there was a hint of warmth, and it just stops growing at that time.
I have tried the purple choy sum, and it didn't do nearly as well as the green varieties. And I like the yu choy (green stalked choy sum) better than the white stalked, as it seems to have a longer window in which I can harvest it. And the purple komatsuna also did not do nearly as well as green, so I haven't tried any purple bok choy - that win-win variety does so well, I can't imagine something topping it!
I have tried the purple choy sum, and it didn't do nearly as well as the green varieties. And I like the yu choy (green stalked choy sum) better than the white stalked, as it seems to have a longer window in which I can harvest it. And the purple komatsuna also did not do nearly as well as green, so I haven't tried any purple bok choy - that win-win variety does so well, I can't imagine something topping it!
The hon tsai tai and choi sum should be able to eat at the bud stage, but the hon tsai tai had these long skinny flower stalks so I did not know where to cut them. And there is only a short window before they are in full bloom. I haven't gotten choi sum yet. I have seeds, I just never got around to planting them.
I do grow the pak choy and baby boks as well as the kai choy cabbages. They were pretty easy to tell when they were ready. The problem trying not to plant too many at the same time or plant too many different kinds of cabbages that would mature at the same time. It was pretty easy to tell when they were goners.
Taro and ginger are pretty easy to tell. The ginger will bloom and the taro and ginger leaves will dieback. If I wait too long on the taro, it will make keikis and the corm will shrink. Taro is ready in 5-7 months. Ginger, I can harvest anytime by breaking off a piece of root as soon as it is big enough, but the ginger will bloom and the top dieback around January, then they have to be dug up and the soil amended with compost and the pieces replanted. They will stay dormant till about April.
The citrus trees will just drop fruit and the fruit will rot if it stays on the tree too long. All of my citrus are ripening now.
Most of the roots like the beets, and radishes will push out of the ground when they are close to harvest. Carrots I haven't figured out yet. I know I have planted them too close, but it seems to take longer for the roots to form than the packet says and they were not sweet.
Chili peppers and Papaya, I can predict. Peppers need heat so they don't flower or produce new fruit until the weather warms. Papaya will take 5 months to flower and about 8 months to produce fruit regularly. Chayote grows and fruits in cooler weather and the vines are small in summer.
Lettuce is ready in 4-6weeks. They are mature in less than 30 days in summer longer in the cooler months but after 50 days the sap is very milky and the leaves are bitter and the head bolts. I also realized that my heads were small because I only gave them 4-6 inches when they needed more like 8-10 inches to grow.
I do grow the pak choy and baby boks as well as the kai choy cabbages. They were pretty easy to tell when they were ready. The problem trying not to plant too many at the same time or plant too many different kinds of cabbages that would mature at the same time. It was pretty easy to tell when they were goners.
Taro and ginger are pretty easy to tell. The ginger will bloom and the taro and ginger leaves will dieback. If I wait too long on the taro, it will make keikis and the corm will shrink. Taro is ready in 5-7 months. Ginger, I can harvest anytime by breaking off a piece of root as soon as it is big enough, but the ginger will bloom and the top dieback around January, then they have to be dug up and the soil amended with compost and the pieces replanted. They will stay dormant till about April.
The citrus trees will just drop fruit and the fruit will rot if it stays on the tree too long. All of my citrus are ripening now.
Most of the roots like the beets, and radishes will push out of the ground when they are close to harvest. Carrots I haven't figured out yet. I know I have planted them too close, but it seems to take longer for the roots to form than the packet says and they were not sweet.
Chili peppers and Papaya, I can predict. Peppers need heat so they don't flower or produce new fruit until the weather warms. Papaya will take 5 months to flower and about 8 months to produce fruit regularly. Chayote grows and fruits in cooler weather and the vines are small in summer.
Lettuce is ready in 4-6weeks. They are mature in less than 30 days in summer longer in the cooler months but after 50 days the sap is very milky and the leaves are bitter and the head bolts. I also realized that my heads were small because I only gave them 4-6 inches when they needed more like 8-10 inches to grow.
Pepperhead212, I remember seeing bok choy when it first showed up in my neighborhood soopermarket, great big plants!
By that time I'd figured out what they were serving me at the Chinese restaurants where I'd always liked to go. Or, at least, I had some idea. I was disappointed in my bout with bok choy from the soopermarket. Later, I discovered that Asian cooks where not using that big variety I had come across. They had those tender little guys. Americans tend to go the bigger, the better route a little too easily.
The Pinetree Seed catalog came this afternoon.
Steve
By that time I'd figured out what they were serving me at the Chinese restaurants where I'd always liked to go. Or, at least, I had some idea. I was disappointed in my bout with bok choy from the soopermarket. Later, I discovered that Asian cooks where not using that big variety I had come across. They had those tender little guys. Americans tend to go the bigger, the better route a little too easily.
The Pinetree Seed catalog came this afternoon
.Steve
I use both but for a side dish I rather have the green baby bok and the joi choi or other baby pak choy. they are much more tender. The flavor is about the same.
The regular bok choy, pak choi, and kai choy are good in soup dishes, being a little more substantial they don't mush and fall apart as easily. For a fast soup where the cabbage is only added at the end and pretty much just steamed in the soup and in quick stir fries, the tender baby choi are much better.
I like to add chopped baby bok that is gently steamed with lemon and soy sauce. Or It like to chop the baby bok into bite sized pieces and add cook it in the ramen soup base then cook the ramen separately. We always cook the ramen twice. When it is packaged, it is fried and the first boiling has white water that will remove some of the grease. The second boiling is cleaner and that is usually the one we add the soup base.
Mei Quing Choi is good for growing in cool weather
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_121-76.html
Shanghai better when it gets warmer
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_059-76.html
joi choi is a good standard pak choi with good bolt resistance. It is good for soups and pickling (kim chee)
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_122-78.html
Baby Bok. Dwarf pak choi. This is the one we use the most. It grows better in the cooler months but it has good heat resistance. This is for the fast stir fries and side dishes
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_273-78.html
Petite Star does not have a lot of leaves and is almost single serving plants, but they are good as a side dish when steamed whole. One or two plants is a serving.
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_449-76.html
Michili is the most common type of won bok that is grown here. Good for steaming or with bacon, shoyu and a little sugar as a side dish or for Kim chee.
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_178-51.html
Gai Choi, or Kai Choy as it is called here is a mustard. It is used in pork and cabbage soup. If there is any other use I don't know of it. It makes very good soup though.
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_049-69.html
Choi sum. This is very versatile in stir fries. It is also another one where I can't seem to figure out just the right time to harvest. The flowers will bloom very quickly so there is a very short harvest window.
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_186-59.html
The regular bok choy, pak choi, and kai choy are good in soup dishes, being a little more substantial they don't mush and fall apart as easily. For a fast soup where the cabbage is only added at the end and pretty much just steamed in the soup and in quick stir fries, the tender baby choi are much better.
I like to add chopped baby bok that is gently steamed with lemon and soy sauce. Or It like to chop the baby bok into bite sized pieces and add cook it in the ramen soup base then cook the ramen separately. We always cook the ramen twice. When it is packaged, it is fried and the first boiling has white water that will remove some of the grease. The second boiling is cleaner and that is usually the one we add the soup base.
Mei Quing Choi is good for growing in cool weather
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_121-76.html
Shanghai better when it gets warmer
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_059-76.html
joi choi is a good standard pak choi with good bolt resistance. It is good for soups and pickling (kim chee)
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_122-78.html
Baby Bok. Dwarf pak choi. This is the one we use the most. It grows better in the cooler months but it has good heat resistance. This is for the fast stir fries and side dishes
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_273-78.html
Petite Star does not have a lot of leaves and is almost single serving plants, but they are good as a side dish when steamed whole. One or two plants is a serving.
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_449-76.html
Michili is the most common type of won bok that is grown here. Good for steaming or with bacon, shoyu and a little sugar as a side dish or for Kim chee.
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_178-51.html
Gai Choi, or Kai Choy as it is called here is a mustard. It is used in pork and cabbage soup. If there is any other use I don't know of it. It makes very good soup though.
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_049-69.html
Choi sum. This is very versatile in stir fries. It is also another one where I can't seem to figure out just the right time to harvest. The flowers will bloom very quickly so there is a very short harvest window.
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_186-59.html
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pepperhead212
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 2882
- Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:52 pm
- Location: Woodbury NJ Zone 7a/7b
digitS',
You wouldn't believe all of the bok choys and similar things I see at the Asian market! Big ones, tiny ones, small ones with flower heads (some variety of choy sum that flowers very early), the green bok choy, often called "Shanghai", which is a little bitter, and many Chinese cabbage varieties, as well.
The Win Win, which I get from Johnny's Seeds, is the best variety I have grown to date, and I have tried at least a dozen! It can be harvested large, yet not be tough and stringy, like some got at much smaller sizes, and here it does not bolt until late June into mid-july, while most barely make it through the first week of june. And it is resistant to cold, though it will eventually die, before the more resistant varieties of greens I have under the cover.
I usually harvest my bok choy by the stalk, as I need them, not by the entire plant, as they just keep growing! Almost all of the Asian greens do this - it's like cutting parsley. When they get big it's because I've eaten so much of it that I've slowed up harvesting. Usually, at the end of the spring crop, a generous amount gets dug under, like a green manure.
You wouldn't believe all of the bok choys and similar things I see at the Asian market! Big ones, tiny ones, small ones with flower heads (some variety of choy sum that flowers very early), the green bok choy, often called "Shanghai", which is a little bitter, and many Chinese cabbage varieties, as well.
The Win Win, which I get from Johnny's Seeds, is the best variety I have grown to date, and I have tried at least a dozen! It can be harvested large, yet not be tough and stringy, like some got at much smaller sizes, and here it does not bolt until late June into mid-july, while most barely make it through the first week of june. And it is resistant to cold, though it will eventually die, before the more resistant varieties of greens I have under the cover.
I usually harvest my bok choy by the stalk, as I need them, not by the entire plant, as they just keep growing! Almost all of the Asian greens do this - it's like cutting parsley. When they get big it's because I've eaten so much of it that I've slowed up harvesting. Usually, at the end of the spring crop, a generous amount gets dug under, like a green manure.
I should always take a little extra care when I use terms like "Americans" and "Asian cooks."
I just counted myself lucky to find bok choy in a supermarket 30 years ago ... then, disappointed that I couldn't make good use of it in stir-fry.
If others reading this are confused by spellings. It's understandable. Asia is a big place with many languages and using the Latin alphabet is difficult. Remember when "Beijing" was "Peking?"
Asian greens made a big difference in my gardening. It became more productive! I had an idea how I wanted to change my diet and the whole thing came together quite well.
Because of the very low rainfall during the summer months, this isn't the best place for growing greens. I have grown nice Napa cabbage (won bok) only covered by a hoop house. Since I'd prefer to take that structure down by mid-June, it isn't a good choice for me since won bok needs more time.
Gia choy (Asian mustard) is an easy one. I harvest that by the leaf. It should be an easy choice in most US gardens and kitchens. It isn't much different from the mustard greens that have always been around. In fact, if I got the story right, Southern Giant Curled mustard isn't originally from the American South as I'd always assumed. It's from India ... maybe the "south" of India.
Bok choy is still a favorite. Interesting what you say about changing the water on ramen noodles, Imafan. It's a common way for me to have bok choy (& broccoli). I'll have to try the water idea!
Steve
I just counted myself lucky to find bok choy in a supermarket 30 years ago ... then, disappointed that I couldn't make good use of it in stir-fry.
If others reading this are confused by spellings. It's understandable. Asia is a big place with many languages and using the Latin alphabet is difficult. Remember when "Beijing" was "Peking?"
Asian greens made a big difference in my gardening. It became more productive! I had an idea how I wanted to change my diet and the whole thing came together quite well.
Because of the very low rainfall during the summer months, this isn't the best place for growing greens. I have grown nice Napa cabbage (won bok) only covered by a hoop house. Since I'd prefer to take that structure down by mid-June, it isn't a good choice for me since won bok needs more time.
Gia choy (Asian mustard) is an easy one. I harvest that by the leaf. It should be an easy choice in most US gardens and kitchens. It isn't much different from the mustard greens that have always been around. In fact, if I got the story right, Southern Giant Curled mustard isn't originally from the American South as I'd always assumed. It's from India ... maybe the "south" of India
.Bok choy is still a favorite. Interesting what you say about changing the water on ramen noodles, Imafan. It's a common way for me to have bok choy (& broccoli). I'll have to try the water idea!
Steve
I'll jump back in here and post a few links. Since a couple favorite choices for seed and info have been mentioned (Johnny's & Kitazawa) here are some others. First of all, Stokes Seeds was the earliest place where I found Asian greens.
If you live in my corner of the world, you may find New Dimension Seeds in your garden center.
Last year, I got around to ordering from AgroHaitai in Canada because I finally learned that they accept US orders.
Finally, the Australians are thankfully helpful in sorting out Asian and English vegetable names! Asian Vegetable Glossary
Steve
who still won't write it Kai lan since he has had friends named both Guy & Lon -- Guy Lon
If you live in my corner of the world, you may find New Dimension Seeds in your garden center.
Last year, I got around to ordering from AgroHaitai in Canada because I finally learned that they accept US orders.
Finally, the Australians are thankfully helpful in sorting out Asian and English vegetable names! Asian Vegetable Glossary
Steve
who still won't write it Kai lan since he has had friends named both Guy & Lon -- Guy Lon
You are right about the many different ways the Asian veggies are spelled and pronounced. Choy, refers to pretty much any kind of cabbage
Pak choi, Pak choy, Pe chai are different words for the same plant.
Then there is green stem and white stem. I am used to the green stemmed cabbages being called bok choy.
Pak choi, Pak choy, Pe chai are different words for the same plant.
Then there is green stem and white stem. I am used to the green stemmed cabbages being called bok choy.
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jal_ut
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 7447
- Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:20 pm
- Location: Northern Utah Zone 5
When to harvest?
Days to maturity is only a guide and will vary depending on your climate and weather.
Greens: I like the young tender leaves.
Lettuce: I have no luck with head types here for some reason. I plant the leafy types. You can pick a few of the outer leaves anytime, or wait for a nice big display of leaves and take the whole plant.
Beets: good at any stage, that little thing we call a seed is a capsule with several seeds in it, You have to thin them, use the thinnings as greens. Let some grow up large. I like the roots about 2 inches in diameter. Wash and boil them then when done the skins peel off easily. slice them up and put some butter on them. Yummy.
Peas, edible pod types, pick as the seeds just start to fill out. For shelling peas let the seeds get fair sized, but hot mature. The mature ones get tough and strong flavored.
Potatoes: You can just poke in a finger and feel for a tuber. If you find a good sized one lift it out and let the plant grow some more. Or wait for end of season when the vines tip over and dig them all. New taters are wonderful.
Corn: just watch it and when the ears start to bulk up, peel back the wrap a bit and look at the size of the kernels. You want it to have fair sized kernels, but pick it before they get too mature.
Kale: I just like to take some of the outer leaves and leave the plant to grow more. Anytime. Though I think its best to pick some before they get too large. More tender. For market I usually take the whole plant. Sells good that way.
IOW harvest when you want some and when it is how you like it! Can't really go wrong.
Days to maturity is only a guide and will vary depending on your climate and weather.
Greens: I like the young tender leaves.
Lettuce: I have no luck with head types here for some reason. I plant the leafy types. You can pick a few of the outer leaves anytime, or wait for a nice big display of leaves and take the whole plant.
Beets: good at any stage, that little thing we call a seed is a capsule with several seeds in it, You have to thin them, use the thinnings as greens. Let some grow up large. I like the roots about 2 inches in diameter. Wash and boil them then when done the skins peel off easily. slice them up and put some butter on them. Yummy.
Peas, edible pod types, pick as the seeds just start to fill out. For shelling peas let the seeds get fair sized, but hot mature. The mature ones get tough and strong flavored.
Potatoes: You can just poke in a finger and feel for a tuber. If you find a good sized one lift it out and let the plant grow some more. Or wait for end of season when the vines tip over and dig them all. New taters are wonderful.
Corn: just watch it and when the ears start to bulk up, peel back the wrap a bit and look at the size of the kernels. You want it to have fair sized kernels, but pick it before they get too mature.
Kale: I just like to take some of the outer leaves and leave the plant to grow more. Anytime. Though I think its best to pick some before they get too large. More tender. For market I usually take the whole plant. Sells good that way.
IOW harvest when you want some and when it is how you like it! Can't really go wrong.