Fall Garden 2014 on the Brain

[mattie g]

I went out in the garden yesterday evening looking for places to sow the Nero di Toscana kale* (seeds for which I ordered yesterday morning). I think I have a few candidate locations spread around the garden, though I may have to sacrifce a few beets and spinach plants to try to ensure I get enough successful germination to make harvesting worthwhile. I'm excited - if a little trepidatious - about adding something new!

* I was accompanied by my 18-month-old daughter, who promptly grabbed a half-ripe Rose de Berne tomato and sunk her litte rat teeth into it!

[applestar]

I wanna hear more about this Rose de Berne tomato!

[mattie g]

I wanna hear more about this Rose de Berne tomato!

I got my tomatoes from a different nursery this year because of a massive increase in price from where I've gotten them the last two years. One of the varieties which did really well last year was Eva Purple Ball, and since the new place didn't have that I tried finding something that was close. From my reading, both the Eva Purple Ball and Rose de Berne were very similar, so I went with that. Turns out they are quite close in shape, size, and color. I'm pretty sure the flavor is similar too, but I honestly can't recall exactly. I can confidently say, though, that my daughter loved it. There were lots of "MMMMMmmmmms!" to be had!

[applestar]

Sounds good! I'm going to look into this.

[mattie g]

Scratch one fall planting off the list. The July 26 bed prep and sowing of the first batch of beets in the NE section was completed over the weekend! I took the time to then cut big sections of bird netting that would cover each of the three beds I have inside the marble-chip landscaping (I.e. those three arc-shaped beds in the picture), then draped it over the short bamboo posts that border the newly planted beet sections. This is absolutely necessary because squirrels (and chipmunks?) do a real number on any ground that is newly turned over. I've had my fair share of seeds, seedlings, and garlic bulbs ripped up over the last couple years, so I refuse to let it happen again!

My kale seeds came in the mail on Saturday, so those will be going in this coming weekend, along with the fall carrots. Either this weekend or next weekend, I'll pull most of the remaining carrots and would like to turn over the bean bed (this is where that second bed of beets will go); however, those beans (which were planted in early May) are still producing like mad, so I may have to wait.

[applestar]

Sounds like you've been busy!

It's hard to think about new planting a for fall when the summer produce are starting to come in "like mad" as you said. I need a morning when I'm not so busy harvesting and pruning diseased foliage

I asked my Swiss SIL about that tomato, and she said:

yes, I do know this tomato. It's heirloom from Switzerland and tastes great. "Berner Rose".

https://biogartenversand.de/product_info ... ucts_id=67

The link she sent me needs to be translated (I used Google Chrome). She also went on to ask me if I wanted her to get some seeds.... Do you need three guesses for what my answer was

[mattie g]

Sounds like you've been busy!

It's hard to think about new planting a for fall when the summer produce are starting to come in "like mad" as you said. I need a morning when I'm not so busy harvesting and pruning diseased foliage

I asked my Swiss SIL about that tomato, and she said:

yes, I do know this tomato. It's heirloom from Switzerland and tastes great. "Berner Rose".

https://biogartenversand.de/product_info ... ucts_id=67

The link she sent me needs to be translated (I used Google Chrome). She also went on to ask me if I wanted her to get some seeds.... Do you need three guesses for what my answer was

It was a great morning out in the garden with the little one! A little muggy, but a lot of fun. I kept her busy by plopping her down in a currently unused bed and letting her dig around. She both loved and feared the worms - she would put dirt on them and say "Night night!" My wife was happy to have the free time to just veg on the couch!

Yup - same tomato. "Rose de Berne" and "Berner Rose" mean the same thing, except the former is French and the latter is German. I can speak and read some German, so by the looks of that page the description is pretty spot on...although my plants are already well over 2m tall.

I can imagine that, for those with bigger gardens than I have, it would be tough to think much about fall planting right now. I'm just coming into the peak of harvesting my summer crops, so it'd be hard to enjoy that if I were worried about putting in a big fall garden, too. That's one silver lining in having a small garden - it's easy to harvest a bunch of stuff, do some pruning, and then fully prep and plant a bed for the fall all in just couple hours. Spread that out over a few weeks, and it's easy as pie.

[mattie g]

Yaya carrots went in one planter yesterday, and I amended the "new" bed I'm going to use for about half my kale, as well. It's not a very big spot, but I figure I can fit about five or six plants in there. I'll sow the seeds tomorrow.

Beets planted last weekend have started to poke through...

[applestar]

Sounds good! I sowed sweet yellow Spanish and Parma onion seeds just to see if that would work in one bed that I can hope to keep mostly weed free. My golden beets are sprouting in the seed flat, and I HAVE to separate/cull/thin one of the cabbage family seedlings -- I couldn't tell which because the soil covered the marker writing along the rim of the container... and I didn't want to stay out any longer because mosquitoes were attacking me as I stood.
so much for reducing waste and not using plant labels

Seed starting is fun, but also very demanding! It's going to be tough because even though temps have cooled down (60's at night), rain is as scarce as ever.

I saw that my beans (top crop or Taylor) are up and I sowed the pre-germinated peas under the cucumber trellis yesterday.

[mattie g]

Sounds good! I sowed sweet yellow Spanish and Parma onion seeds just to see if that would work in one bed that I can hope to keep mostly weed free. My golden beets are sprouting in the seed flat, and I HAVE to separate/cull/thin one of the cabbage family seedlings -- I couldn't tell which because the soil covered the marker writing along the rim of the container... and I didn't want to stay out any longer because mosquitoes were attacking me as I stood.
so much for reducing waste and not using plant labels

Seed starting is fun, but also very demanding! It's going to be tough because even though temps have cooled down (60's at night), rain is as scarce as ever.

I saw that my beans (top crop or Taylor) are up and I sowed the pre-germinated peas under the cucumber trellis yesterday.

I'm really looking forward to the golden beets. I've never had them, but it would be pretty cool to taste a beet in something that...well...doesn't look like a beet!

[gardeningwithe]

I have enjoyed reading this whole conversation as I am going to try fall gardening this year. I definitely want to do beets, spinach, kale, chinese cabbage and maybe broccoli. Honestly I need to go through my seeds and see what I still have. LOL. I have spot in our new circle garden (that really turned into bigger round garden and two smaller one so I guess like Micky head and ears lol) that just didn't grow what we wanted. I think I'll till in some newer soil and start that as the fall garden.
Best of luck though!!

[mattie g]

I have enjoyed reading this whole conversation as I am going to try fall gardening this year. I definitely want to do beets, spinach, kale, chinese cabbage and maybe broccoli. Honestly I need to go through my seeds and see what I still have. LOL. I have spot in our new circle garden (that really turned into bigger round garden and two smaller one so I guess like Micky head and ears lol) that just didn't grow what we wanted. I think I'll till in some newer soil and start that as the fall garden.
Best of luck though!!

Awesome!

I'm really excited for this fall. It's something I've never done before (at least not haphazardly), so I really hope I can get some good production at least until we start to freeze up pretty regularly. That's not until mid- to late-November or so here, so if I've planned things out well and planted at the right times, I may just extend my season for quite a bit longer than ever before.

Good luck on your own fall garden. Feel free to keep us up to date in here!

[applestar]

Make sure you try the summer planting schedule for fall harvest tool link I posted on the first page.

[gardeningwithe]

I used to calculator and was pleased to see that there are some things I can definitely plant - guess today will be my fall garden prep day. Thanks so much applestar!!

[ElizabethB]

Mattie - your lay out is beautiful. Both attractive and functional. I skimmed through the post so I may have missed this. What about leaf lettuce, mustard greens and turnips? I plant Tokyo turnips. They are snow white and very mild - almost sweet. The greens are much milder than the purple turnips. I hope you use your beet greens as well as the beets.

Even though you are not doing traditional square foot gardening if you space your seeds and starts using SFG guidelines you will have a lot of produce in a small amount of space and will never have to thin.

Just a thought.

God luck

[mattie g]

Thanks for the kind words, Elizabeth! I credit my wife with the layout plans - I just fit my garden in where I can! We designed it with kids in mind, as my wife remembered her neighbors' gardens where she grew up, and how it was kind of fairytale-esque wandering through them and picking fruits and vegetables right off the plants and eating them there. It's great because our little one does just that now!

I've thought about planting leaf lettuce, but we're really big fans of spinach, so that'll be our main leafy green (at least for this fall). We do use the beet greens, both in salads and sautéed along with spinach. Our main problem is the limited space we have, so adding in another crop would *really* be pushing it. I had to amend a new section of the garden/landscape just to get most of the kale in, and I think I'm now plum out of space to put in a new bed. I'm curious about the square foot gardening idea, and I might try it sometime...just not yet!

[mattie g]

Oh...as for the kale bed, I planted my kale today in that bed and in a "secondary bed." The secondary bed gets a ton of winter sun, but it sits under a section of our second story that hangs out about 8' or so, so it gets very little rain and snow on it. It does stay just a tad warmer there in the winter since it's nestled in like it is up against the house and gets plenty of sun during the day, so it's a decent wintertime bed. I just need to make sure to water it from time to time and to maybe throw some snow up there to insulate the kale if it's needed and/or possible.

[JayPoc]

Lol...I still haven't "thought" about the fall garden yet, but I did start pretty much all of it in trays today. 18 cells each with lettuce ( 6 each roman delight, red romaine, and red salad mix), red Russian kale, regular kale (blue scotch I think), and collards. I'll start a little more collards and kale in a few weeks...

[meshmouse]

Hey guys, I'm really enjoying this thread.

This fall, winter is going to be my first 'intentional' attempt at extending this season and jump starting next season.

I have a few questions. When you refer to 'overwintering' does that mean you are letting the plants grow a bit, knowing that they will not reach maturity but will have developed some roots, so that in spring they have a head start? Or does that mean planting seeds to germinate in spring at their earliest liking?

I suspect it's the former, in which case my question is, do you give them a protective mulch at some point before the dead of winter and remove it early spring? Also, any advice on pre-planting seeds for spring?

Also - mattie g - what are your 'reliable carrot planters'. Inquiering minds want to know. Well, I do anyway.

Thanks,

[rainbowgardener]

When you refer to 'overwintering' does that mean you are letting the plants grow a bit, knowing that they will not reach maturity but will have developed some roots, so that in spring they have a head start? YES

Yes, I mulch them. I don't cover them (e.g. with plastic), but I do mulch. By spring a lot of the mulch has broken down, so I don't have to do too much uncovering, just let them grow.

Not quite sure what you meant about pre-planting seeds. If you mean in the ground, my only experience with that is some cold hardy perennials. Many of those need to go through a cold winter in the ground (or some cold stratification process that simulates that) in order to germinate. They are fall planted to sprout in spring.

[meshmouse]

Thanks RGB,

Yes to overwintering. I'm gonna give it a go.

Good to know about the mulch. That's what I'll do.

And, yes about pre-planting seeds. I'm gonna give that a try as well. I'll plant them just before the first real snow here in zone 7a (probably late Dec, early Jan).

Thanks again.

[imafan26]

Since kale is a big plant and for me can last a couple of years, I plant it in a big pot so I can save garden space for other things. It likes nitrogen and calcium and I usually do not put calcium in my garden bed.

I like toscano because it is sweeter than curly kale. The leaves are tougher than curly kale, but if you use just the youngest leaves and slice them very thin, it works in salads. A lot of people make kale smoothies adding bananas, papaya, pinepples, grapes, strawberries, passion fruit juice, grapes and whatever else is available

Mostly I like them sauteed in olive oil, butter, salt, pepper and garlic or cooked with beans and salt pork.

I started to plant my fall garden today with seeds of DeCicco Broccoli, Toscano Kale, swiss chard, Won Bok (Michili), Early Wonder (tall top) beets. My corn is tasseling now so it should be done in time for planting as long as those darn snails and birds stop eating the tops off my seedlings.

[mattie g]

Also - mattie g - what are your 'reliable carrot planters'. Inquiering minds want to know. Well, I do anyway.

They're just simple planting boxes - about 30" long, 10" or so deep, and about 8" wide (not exact measurements, by any stretch). It's nice because I can put in two rows of carrots in it, and they have reliably produced for me. It's more about feeling comfortable with them and knowing what I have to do to get production out of what I plant in them. For me, being confident in what I'm doing is an incredibly important aspect of being successful in the garden, and with these planters, I don't have to wonder how to go about prepping and planting carrots in them. I'm very much a mind-over-matter-type person, so if I can conquer mental challenges, the physical comes pretty easily to me!

[meshmouse]

mattie g - sorry to take so long getting back to you. I've been out on the water this past week.

In terms of fall crop/over wintering carrots in your containers - are these up against the sun wall outside?

I've heard that planting in containers gives you one to two zones warmer in summer and one or two colder in winter. Any experience with that?

Also, do you swap out soil each crop or amend, if so how.

Thanks again - meshmouse

[mattie g]

mattie g - sorry to take so long getting back to you. I've been out on the water this past week.

In terms of fall crop/over wintering carrots in your containers - are these up against the sun wall outside?

I've heard that planting in containers gives you one to two zones warmer in summer and one or two colder in winter. Any experience with that?

Also, do you swap out soil each crop or amend, if so how.

Thanks again - meshmouse

I might put them up against the house if we get some cool weather in late-September or October, but otherwise they should do just fine where they are. If I want to try to keep them going into November, then I'll almost certainly have to move them nearer to a wall. I can certainly see how soil in a pot would heat up and cool down more quickly than ground soil, which is one reason why I use plenty of mulch (cut grass) in my pots - it helps to regulate the temperature a bit, as well as limit evaporation from the soil.

At the beginning of each year, I take about half the soil out and add new potting soil, along with some all-purpose fertilizer to help give it a kick. For my fall planting, I just took a couple inches of soil off the top and mixed in an equal amount of new potting soil and fertilizer. I'm sure there are folks to put brand new soil in each year, but that could get a little pricey, and so far this way seems to do OK for me!

[mattie g]

I planted my second carrot planter yesterday. The ones I planted a couple weeks ago were Yayas, while these were the same Nelsons that grew this spring/summer.

Fairly big weekend coming up this weekend - big section of beets and my fall-harvest spinach will go in. My daughter helped me clear the space for the spinach by pulling up all the small spring/summer beets, but I won't have my little helper clear the beans for the beet bed. And while I'll miss having her around while I'm in the garden, it might be kind of nice not having to worry about her tearing leaves of all my other plants or trying to eat habaneros fresh off the plant hile I'm otherwise occupied! She and my wife will be living it up at the beach though, so don't feel too sorry for them!

[meshmouse]

mattie g -

I don't feel sorry for them, rather for you, that you're not at the beach with them. I'm sure there are reasons, but none good enough. We all need the beach now and then. Just kidding, I'm sure you miss them and they, you.

I only have (readily available) some 5 gal buckets that I'm thinking this week I will convert into planters with a few drain holes. I googled 'yayas' and they sound great. I will try them next spring, but for now I will plant the various seeds I have left over (standard stuff).

I've experimented with this this past late spring and while the carrots continue to grow, here I am 3 months later and the thinnings are all barely fingerlings (which are great, but..,) Are carrots very dependant on 'full sun'? That might be what mine lack. The tops look great.

[mattie g]

meshmouse...

My carrots get at least as much sun as anything else in my garden. It's not necessarily by choice, but by necessity, as that particular location isn't big enough to fit anything except those skinny planters. God luck on using the buckets for you carrots!

As for the family being at the beach without me, the dog and I will be meeting up with them this weekend and vacationing for over a week, so all's not lost!

[mattie g]

OK...second set of beets and first batch of spinach went in yesterday. The first beet seedlings aren't doing so hot - they've been getting nibbled at by something (maybe slugs) and some day-long downpours the other day put a real beating on them. I decided to sow a whole lot of seeds yesterday, so I should have plenty of seedlings to transplant into that first plot once yesterday's planting starts coming in.

[catgrass]

I have learned in years past that my spinach and lettuce do better in containers. I bought 2 pots that are about 1/2 size of a 1/2 whiskey barrel (got them at the dollar store). I just scatter the seeds in them and clip what I want out and they produce almost all winter. Of course, I'm in zone 9, so freezing is rarely a problem. I've also grown radish and carrots this way

[applestar]

How are your Fall gardens coming along?

I sowed some peas yesterday -- it's probably too late, but I cleared the last of the cuke and melon vines and wanted to sow something that would use the trellis. I sowed red orach along the edge.
I also sowed some Gigante spinach and planted the dime-nickel sized intermediate onion bulbs that didn't bulb up well at summer harvest. Rather than frustrating myself trying to peel them and use them or letting them dry up in storage, I thought I'll see if they will grow into green onions before frost/freeze kills them.

I cleared two more spots today and sowed some lettuce/salad mix and transplanted golden beet seedlings, and sowed kale/kohlrabi mix in the 2nd area.

Also sowed some cabbage and tatsoi seeds under the protective tunnel used for squash during the summer. I decided to just keep using this tunnel and put a plastic sheeting over the spun bonded fabric later on and see how long they can keep going. I sowed some other seeds here before and some of those seem to have come up. I've been lax about keeping records, so whatever grows will be more of a happy surprise.

also cleared the remaining lettuce with seed heads from the patio windowbox and sowed some lettuce mix, arugula and Egyptian onion topsets.

Spinach, carrot, Swiss chard, lettuce, and radish mix I sowed at the end of August are up and growing true leaves.

[rainbowgardener]

A little late, but in the past week, I have planted (in the ground) seeds for spinach, kale, broccoli, a couple kinds of lettuces, and onions. In October I will plant garlic and some more broccoli and spinach for over wintering.

[catgrass]

This past weekend I planted spinach and lettuce in those long window box type planters. Got radish in the ground. Have broccoli plants to put in the ground, but it isn't prepped yet. Have sugar snaps soaking and ready to plant, too. This weekend I'll buy some cabbage plants at the Ag Center Fall sale and I'll be good for the fall/winter season, except for my fall flower planting.

[lakngulf]

I have several summer crops going strong into our early Fall: Peppers, eggplant, some tomatoes and a replanting of okra and rattlesnake beans. Also, I have planted some mustard greens and Georgia collards.

Each year at my hunting land I plant 10 lbs of purple top turnips for the deer. They are in the ground (or rather "on the ground") and got some rain on Monday. Always difficult to plan them thin enough for the roots to form.

[applestar]

Having grown through the summer, Swiss chard, leeks, kale and celery are loving the cooler weather and growing fresh tender leaves and fat thick stalks. Pulling carrots as needed. Cutting down finished plants to let the roots die and break down.

I've been sowing seeds as space opens up -- lettuce, peas, spinach, beets, radish, daikon, carrots, parsnips, Swiss chard, broccoli, kohlrabi, and onions. Multiple varieties of each with at lease one variety for each crop like Walla Walla onion that are supposed to be good for fall sowing and possibly wintering over, though I might have been a little late. I'm hoping to compensate by putting up low and high tunnels to extend the fall season if I can.