Lets talk planting using black plastic!

[Bobberman]

I have used black plastic to plant tomatoes and zucks many times. I usually got a 10 by 25-- 3mil black plastic. I rfolled it out but did not open it up instead I cut v's out of it on both folds about every 18 inches. When I opened it up I had a nice size rectangle withI pointed sides. It worked great. I was thinking of a faster better way and tonight I used 3 foot wide plastic 50 foot long! I anchored the plastic on each side with dirt. Now I made a row on the out side edges of each side of the plastic 50 foot long! I planted onions and yellow beans together. The other side I planted corn and a few zucks.. Since it was 8 pm and I had little time I planted a second 50 foot plastic and made two more 50 foot rows. I had a mix of seeds that were in a box that I spilled the last two years. The mix was beans zucks and beets si I put a quick two rows in in 25 min. I did all 4 rows in less than hour.

Now lets see why I think this is a better way to plant. With the holes in the middle of the plastic the intense heat can cause problems and watering can be a problem! The 3 foot wide plastic which I actually had about 3 feet between plastics seems to me to be better because on one side the plants have the protection of the plastic but on the out side they have more room to root where the ground gets wet. What are your thoughts!???By the way I have access to 100 by 200 area that has bin tilled a week ago. So every night now for the next week I will put in 2 50 foot rows every night. Tonight was good because it is suppose to rain. I also have a 10 by 25 with holes cut with 2 dozen tomatoes!

[valley]

Sounds interesting, like to see how it works. Never used plastic, maybe next year.

Richard

[imafan26]

I have used black plastic, but I usually use the painter plastic. It is thicker than the garbage bags and it is already a rectangle 9x12 or 3x50 foot long. I have planted along the seam, but it doesn't matter whether it is a seam or holes in the plastic the weeds come up wherever the holes are and usually next to the plants.

When planting along a seam, I used U staples because the wind would blow off part of the covering. I still had to put holes in the middle because my ground is not flat and the plastic would have puddles of water that would breed mosquitoes.

I had a hard time watering the plants because I tried to make the holes as small as possible because of the weeds and the ground under the plastic would be hard and bone dry. I finally solved that issue by putting the drip hose under the plastic but I had to make sure I planted where the holes in the drip tubing were located.

Now, I use plastic more for weed control than anything else. I actually don't use garbage bags anymore because they are too thin. I cut open the bags of perlite and compost and potting soil and they are usually white on the inside so very reflective of light. They are also a lot thicker and I put them on the ground on top of several layers of newspaper and then put my pots on top of them. I still have weeds that come from the sides, inside the pots and through the seams in the plastic, but they are a lot better than when I just had the pots on the ground. I still have issues with water collecting on the plastic, so I throw some mulch under the low spots in the plastic to try to keep most of the water from puddling.

[applestar]

Random thoughts and "armchair" comments:

- I don't trust that there are no chemicals used in the manufacturing process won't wash off into the soil (to me new plastic has an odor. The odor must outgas or leach.)
- I wouldn't want to be the one to throw out that much plastic after just a few months use. Can they be recycled? (No program for it here)
- don't you have to have an irrigation system under the plastic mulch?
- won't the plastic interfere with any kind of tool use -- everything must be done by hand now?
- how do you avoid/prevent puddling and mosquito breeding haven?
- plastic mulch doesn't feed the soil and may limit intercropping and succession growing
- BLACK plastic mulch might interfere with fall crop planting later on

Can you describe the pros and cons you have experienced before planting in black plastic previously?

- You said "it worked great" before for tomatoes and zukes. Could you elaborate/be more specific?
- You are trying this new way to make it easier and faster to plant, you said. Was there any other negatives in the previous method?

Please keep us updated with progress on this year's new method.

[Bobberman]

Plastic bags are a option which can be cut on the width of the bag to make wider shorter patch. You can buy 3 mill bags that are much heavier and easy to work with. I just bought a 32 by 50 inch 3 mill bag 20 in a pack for $9.99. If I cut then length wise I will have 1000 inches by 32 inches wide. I would separate the patches by a foot to 3 feet and plant all around the bag like a small separate bed. I will try this method this week! I will plant all around the bag not in the middle. I wall also try several with a few holes in the middle of the sheet. Its a little more work cutting the bags but doing a few every night is easy! Just think one bag makes a area 32 inches wide by 8 foot 4 long! I think that is cheaper and better than the long 50 foot by three sheets! If you cut the other way you would have a 50 by 64 inch area .I think the bag is the way to go. Too bad they don't sell flat pieces that size.

[imafan26]

Plastic mulch has been used commercially for years, it has a higher UV rating than plastic bags. All plastic products are a by-product of the oil industry.

They make plastic bags more degradable now, but that is usually grocery bags. I think garbage bags degrade much slower. If plastic is buried in a landfill and not exposed to light, it takes a millennium to breakdown.

If you every see how a landfill is constructed you will find that after the hole is excavated, it is lined with saran wrap. The garbage is added in layers and tamped down and each layer is covered with more saran wrap. Some of the compostable materials in the garbage will not breakdown as quickly because it is buried, does not have water and is wrapped in plastic.

[applestar]

LOL imafan, that doesn't make me feel any better about throwing away plastic... though I admit it does put things in perspective.

Also, degradable plastic -- if you leave plastic grocery bags out in the elements (out of neglect or because it's stuck high up in the tree... Or accidentally buried in compost pile ) past the point of degradation, the plastic turns into dust like confetti that is impossible to pick up or collect.

Ugh and double ugh! Not convinced that means it's OK.

...can't imagine what you'd end up with if large sheets were left around to degrade...

You CAN get biodegradable corn based plastic mulch in clear, (I think white), as well as black though it may cost more.

[rainbowgardener]

yes, the little plastic bits that plastic breaks down into are probably environmentally worse than the original was. They are very easily spread through out the environment. Tons of them end up in the ocean, where aquatic creatures eat them, thinking they are plankton. Eventually they clog up the animal which dies.

[ReptileAddiction]

In my opinion, putting down black plastic takes more effort and time than just spreading leaves or grass clippings. Mulches that break down also reduce the amount of amendments and fertilizers you have to apply. You might get a few more weeds with grass clippings or leaves but they are easier to pull than weeds that grow up through the holes in the plastic. I think that black plastic in the long run is an expense that is just not necessary and does not help your plants grow enough to be worth it.

On a side not does anyone have experience with red plastic? Does it actually increase yields 20% like advertised? I think that it might be useful in a shady garden such as mine. Almost everything does well for me except tomatoes. My tomatoes just never really do much.

[rainbowgardener]

I did try the red plastic one year and I couldn't tell any difference. And yes, in too little sunshine (which is most of my yard) tomato plants will grow, but they won't produce much.

[applestar]

So far based on my winter indoor trials, for lower light/less direct sun situations, you get better results from earlier maturing, cool weather tolerant varieties that are naturally productive. You are less likely to see good production from later maturing beefsteak type varieties that are said to be heat tolerant.

I think it would also help to give them a once over with vibrating electric toothbrush if you can get out there around mid day to late afternoon when the air is drier or when the temperature is conducive to good pollination/setting fruits.

[Bobberman]

Tonight I was at the farm to plant 2 more long rows . I had the 2 mill 3 by 50 black plastic and a 3 by 40 land scape material that had a special coating of time release fertilizer in the material! I liked the land scape material better and it was not porus but would absorb water slow. I did things a little different tonight. I made a 4 inch deep row and placed the edge of the plastic in it then made a row beside the plastic that also covered the edge of the plastic. Worked real nice..

The farmer has long rows with 3 foot plastic with round holes in the middle and has 600 tomato plants that are really big! He separated the plastic about 6 feet and runs a tiller between it every several weeks .I do not leave the plastic in the ground at the end of the summer but reuse it or discard it.

[rainbowgardener]

So far based on my winter indoor trials, for lower light/less direct sun situations, you get better results from earlier maturing, cool weather tolerant varieties that are naturally productive. You are less likely to see good production from later maturing beefsteak type varieties that are said to be heat tolerant.

I think it would also help to give them a once over with vibrating electric toothbrush if you can get out there around mid day to late afternoon when the air is drier or when the temperature is conducive to good pollination/setting fruits.

This is very helpful and I will have to try it another year. This year I just didn't try any tomatoes in the back yard, only the front lawn sunny bed and the community garden plot. We like the front yard sunny bed so much we are thinking about adding another one! Eventually if we stay here long enough we will have NO grass to mow!

[imafan26]

I have used red plastic mulch before. It does increase yield and the plants are slightly bigger, however the plants in full sun and no mulch still produced a lot.

[Bobberman]

I would think white plastic would work the best because of its reflected light to the under leaves. White would also keep the soil cooler in the summer heat.

[TheWaterbug]

I'm going to revive this thread, because I just ordered a small roll of this:

The Compostable & Biodegradable Bio360 Mulch Film, made of Mater-Bi, a corn starch based raw material, is biodegradable and compostable.

The master batch pigment mixture used for coloring is also made of Mater-Bi. It leaves no toxic residues in the ground and you save on removal, recycling and land fill costs.

Temperature, humidity, and microorganisms in the ground transform Bio360 into water, carbon dioxide, and biomass. There is no toxic residue left.

This biodegradable mulch has the same mechanical and physical characteristics as the plastic mulch without the negative impact on the environment, and there are no removal, recycling and land fill costs.

Here a clinical study on biodegradable mulch film conducted by Cornell University in 2006.

This stuff allegedly breaks down completely, with no nasty residues.

I'd like to try some strawberries and things with this, to see how it work.

[imafan26]

How long does it take to degrade?

[pepperhead212]

I have used a cornstarch based black plastic before, and it lasted pretty much the entire season, just beginning to break down about now (in the fall). I just pulled it up (in shreds), and composted it.

[Gary350]

40 years ago I worked for a company that made plastic in very large rolls that weighed about 600 to 800 lbs each. I had just moved to TN and was new a gardening in TN. I had not yet learned how to control weeds and grass and was working my butt off every evening in the garden trying to get ride of weeds and grass. I had the city bring tree leaves by the truck loads it took 3 years to get very nice soil in my garden but weeds and grass were still a nightmare. Someone at work said, cover your garden rows with plastic to keep out weeds it is free cut off as much plastic as you want take it home and try it so I did. It was a lot of work just to get a 3 ft wide 40 ft long sheet of plastic to lay flat on the ground if the wind got under it that made it blow up like a balloon then it blew up and across the yard and stopped at the fence. It was a 2 hour job to lay out 1 row of plastic using a shovel to cover all the edges with enough soil to hold it down then cut holes every 2 feet for plants. Plastic blocked the rain water rain off both sides soon washed soil away where wind could get under it then plastic blew away. I was determined to make it work I covered the plastic with wooden pallets, cement blocks, boards, old tires, anything I could get. I was young and full of energy back then. I finally covered the whole sheet of plastic with soil to hold it down. I tried different color plastic, white and clean let in light and weeds and grass grew under the plastic puffing it up like a pillow. When 100 degree weather came it got hot under the plastic and cooked all the weeds and grass but very little rain July Aug I had to water plants every day through the holes. I finally decided plastic is too much work.

There is a farm 1 mile from me they have a tractor with a roll of plastic on back. They drive it through the field the devices on the back lays down the plastic then tucks the edges under on both sides exactly like tucking blankets under the bed mattress. They are planting strawberries this time of the year, they will have a big strawberry harvest in May 7 months from now then plow the field and plant something different in its place.

Lots of people talk about mulching the garden, you can mulch with anything. Some people use wood chips, some use straw, you can even sprinkle loose soil over the area you want mulched with a shovel and it works like mulch. Shoveling soil by hand is a lot of work but it is free mulch. It is many times easier to run the garden tiller between the rows do not till deep you get a loose layer of soil that works like mulch. When it rains the mulch is gone but it only takes 20 minutes to run the tiller through my 35'x60' garden to break the surface soil and I have free mulch again. I have don't this in 4 States, MI, IL, AZ and TN it works for me. I am all for anything, fast, easy, cheap. The less work the garden is the better I like it.

[applestar]

I’ve been thinking about trying using plastic film mulch in my garden this season. There are different types now, not just black — black/white, green, brown, red, solar/IR, silver reflective, and reflective in other colors, and of course you could use clear. And then there are the biodegradable types usually black.

I’m seeing plenty of blogs and videos promoting them, and I’m "buying" that they help with obvious and immediate results. So now, I’ve been reviewing the possible negative impacts, and found this article to be helpful —

Biodegradable Plastic Mulch Films: Impacts on Soil Microbial Communities and Ecosystem Functions
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00819/full

Indirect [polyethylene and biodegradable mulches (BDMs)] and direct (BDMs only) effects of plastic mulching on soil ecosystems. Plastic mulches form a barrier on the soil surface which influences soil temperature, moisture and soil-air gas exchange, indirectly altering the microbial communities. BDMs are tilled into the soil at the end of the growing season, introducing physical fragments and a carbon source, along with other components of the plastic films (additives, plasticizers, minerals, etc.) which may additionally influence soil communities and their processes.

...I’m going to have to think about this some more...

[PaulF]

This topic has been around for many years and I have taken part in discussions in the past so here is my opinion. Plastic, whether it be black or any other color, is useful in adding heat to the soil and in suppression of weeds. Having tried plastics as a mulch in several colors and thicknesses the only positives have been in raising soil temp and weed control. For me negatives are inability for water in the form of rain to get to the plant root system. If I were to use a drip system under the plastic watering could be made easier, but rain would tend to run off or pool.

I went from plastic ground cover to landscape fabric to fix the watering problem. Fabric solved heating the soil and it also suppressed weeds. Plastic and fabric needed to be removed every year and my makeshift drip system also was removed to match the next year's garden plan. The fabric lasted about three years and the expense was a problem. Plastic was the same.

Organic mulch in the form of grass clippings has most of the benefits of plastic or fabric but needed to be added to the garden continually as it broke down and my grass clippings supply was limited. Any source but my own was suspect depending on any chemicals used on the grass.

Then I put layers of newspaper on the bare soil and added organics (grass clippings) over that. Water penetration was good, soil temperature control was also good...warmer in the spring and kept the root zone cooler in heat of summer. Our local newspaper has end rolls of newspaper which made the paper layer easy to put down and I went with weedless straw as the top layer. This is the mulching system I have used for quite a few years and this is the system I will stay with. At the end of the season I till everything under, after removing all the plant material of course. Over the remaining fall, winter and early spring the paper and straw breaks down and is ready to plant again after raking the garden to smooth it all out. The overall cost is very low and no plastic is introduced into my landscape.

For me, there are too many negatives in using plastic as a mulch or soil cover. When I did sweet potatoes black plastic came in handy. But for what I grow I just wait until the soil warms up before planting, then mulch with paper and straw.

[applestar]

@PaulF - You bring up exactly the kind of reminders I also think are important. Thanks!

[pepperhead212]

Something about landscape fabric, which I learned a couple of years ago: it degrades on the roll. I got a 250 ft x 4 ft roll of it years ago, and used it for several years. However, about the 5th year I put some down, it was just falling apart in my hands, and on the ground, just stepping on it made a hole. I just threw the rest away. So don't buy a large amount, unless you will use it up in a couple of years.

[TheWaterbug]

I'm going to revive this thread, because I just ordered a small roll of this:

This stuff allegedly breaks down completely, with no nasty residues.

I'd like to try some strawberries and things with this, to see how it work.

I never did get around to using it the last two years, but I have an opportunity now. I have onions and leeks en-route from Dixondale, and I have bare root strawberries en route from Hirts.

I also have a new (to me) Honda FRC800 rototiller all gassed up, with a furrower on the way from Home Depot.

So this is a perfect opportunity for me to try this stuff out. If it hasn't already broken down while sitting in my shed.

[TheWaterbug]

I cut open the bags of perlite and compost and potting soil and they are usually white on the inside so very reflective of light. They are also a lot thicker and I put them on the ground on top of several layers of newspaper and then put my pots on top of them. I still have weeds that come from the sides, inside the pots and through the seams in the plastic, but they are a lot better than when I just had the pots on the ground. I still have issues with water collecting on the plastic, so I throw some mulch under the low spots in the plastic to try to keep most of the water from puddling.

Ah, and I just re-read this. I use, literally, 150+ bags of composted steer manure every year:



I can fit somewhere between 54 - 60 bags in my small SUV, and I do this 3 times/year. This stuff is affordable, at ~$1.50/cu ft (it used to be $0.99! ), and I can schlepp it without hurting my back, vs. the 3 cu ft bags of soil that are also 3x more expensive.

But the big downside is all the plastic waste. I hadn't thought about using it as mulch.

Right now I'm pretty brute-force about cutting the bags open down the middle with a spade and dumping out the manure, but I might try cutting them open a bit more carefully this time, and attempting to turn them into sheets for mulching. I might even do a comparison between the degradable black plastic and these white bags, to see which ones the plants like better.

If it will last through the growing season without breaking down, then I can pull it up and recycle it like I do now, but with the benefit of having used it twice.

[applestar]

White mulch is usually fused/backed with black on the other side for better weed control (Black/White mulch) and the White side up is recommended for planting leafy greens that might bolt from the heat Later on. The White reflects and keeps the soil cooler. Also, the White may help to confuse aphids, etc., though the “proven” mulch for this purpose is the silver and silvered colored mulch with metallic additive.

But yeah with that many bags, I would also like to see how the experiment will turn out. I’ve used the cut open bags somewhat randomly under containers and around squash and stuff (spread lengthwise and laid on both sides of the plant). Even when weeds grow underneath, they are feeble and easily pulled out, etc. the they can be piled on the pathways to be trampled back into dirt or put in the compost pile or use as mulch like grass clippings.

Another trick for the bags I’m going to try this year is to cut off the bottom into tubes (or cut generous holes) then stand them up and fill to grow deep growing root crops like long carrots, daikon, gobo/burdock. They should be leaned on something or stood in group to support each other, then tied together so they don’t fall over.

[imafan26]

I heard about just planting in the bags before and I tried it. It did not work out for me, but I did plant a tomato in a 2 cu ft bag.
The method was to take a bag of potting soil mix and make a slit or a cut in the bag to plant the seedlings. I did not make holes on the bottom for drainage ( I don't remember if I just missed that part of the tutorial). It caused watering issues with over and then under watering. The bag shape did not help and the tomato did not have enough root space in the bag and it grew spindly. If I did this again. I would try to get some kind of containment for the back to give it some shape like tile blocks for support. The bag started to fall apart and lose soil after a couple of months. Put some holes on the bottom for drainage and maybe plant something that had a shallower root system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pXM4KGq-oQ

[TheWaterbug]

Right now I'm pretty brute-force about cutting the bags open down the middle with a spade and dumping out the manure, but I might try cutting them open a bit more carefully this time, and attempting to turn them into sheets for mulching. I might even do a comparison between the degradable black plastic and these white bags, to see which ones the plants like better.

If it will last through the growing season without breaking down, then I can pull it up and recycle it like I do now, but with the benefit of having used it twice.

So I tilled in 35 bags of manure, and I took care to open the bags carefully. Then I slit them up the sides to make long strips. I made my raised rows and placed my drip tubing, then I laid the bags over my raised rows like this, with about a 1/3 overlap:



and then dumped in some wood chips to hold them down. I did the same on the right-most row, but with the corn-based black plastic mulch linked above, and I left the middle alone. I was lucky there was zero wind on Monday morning:



This morning I put in 25 Seascape strawberries (far end) and 25 Evie strawberries (near end), and watered them in:



The black plastic is super thin, and tears if you breathe on it. I am skeptical of it lasting the whole season without falling apart. The good news is that it's easy to punch through with a metal trowel for planting.

The white bags are much heavier, especially where they overlap, and punching with the trowel kinda mashes down my beautiful raised row, so it takes more effort to be careful and still make a hole large enough to plant through.

The strawberry shipment insert said I should see "signs of life within 3 days," but I'm always skeptical about that sort of thing. I'll see where we are in 7-10 days.