Acidifying soil quickly
I would some advice on getting my ph down fast so I can get my tomatoes going soon. My garden is only 30x30 and the ph is high according to my meter test except in the raised beds. I have read lots of things on the net about it from vinegar to cottonseed meal. I would like to know what you guys would do for a quick solution and any help would be appreciated .
What PH does you meter give ?
Did you consider going to the University of Illinois site for information as their horticulture information is likely to be more accurate than "internet" sources. The university lists 17 different labs throughout Illinois that do soil testing for the home gardener. I'd be very careful about "quick fixes" to your garden soils, that may not be necessary. Are you having a problem with growing tomatoes in that area you mentioned ? Soil test in my state are $9 which is probably cheaper than a bag of "soil fixers".
https://urbanext.illinois.edu/soiltest/ I think this will get you to the Uni Extension site.
Did you consider going to the University of Illinois site for information as their horticulture information is likely to be more accurate than "internet" sources. The university lists 17 different labs throughout Illinois that do soil testing for the home gardener. I'd be very careful about "quick fixes" to your garden soils, that may not be necessary. Are you having a problem with growing tomatoes in that area you mentioned ? Soil test in my state are $9 which is probably cheaper than a bag of "soil fixers".
https://urbanext.illinois.edu/soiltest/ I think this will get you to the Uni Extension site.
A soil test would be better than a meter. Sulfur will lower the pH over time. It takes about 6 mos.
Adding peat moss to the soil will get it down faster. But it would be expensive. If you are not growing a hundred tomatoes and just a few, grow the tomatoes in containers. Potting soils made with peat moss are near neutral or make your own with peat moss and perlite which would be an acidic mix. Tomatoes like pH between 6-7. You can use an acidic fertilizer like miracle grow or supplement with divided nitrogen sulfate of ammonia. If you want to be organic, be careful of using composts, almost all the ones I have tested are alkaline. If you can find an acidic or at least neutral compost, compost can buffer the pH so it acts more neutral.
I don't use compost in my pots because I have problems with pots staying too wet and composts hold to much water. I do use vermicompost, but only a handful. We tested our vermicompost and it was also alkaline because of all the comfrey and kale that went in it, so now we have been adding sulfur to the vermicompost so when it is finished it tests neutral. Sulfur doesn't hurt the worms as long as you don't add too much.
Adding peat moss to the soil will get it down faster. But it would be expensive. If you are not growing a hundred tomatoes and just a few, grow the tomatoes in containers. Potting soils made with peat moss are near neutral or make your own with peat moss and perlite which would be an acidic mix. Tomatoes like pH between 6-7. You can use an acidic fertilizer like miracle grow or supplement with divided nitrogen sulfate of ammonia. If you want to be organic, be careful of using composts, almost all the ones I have tested are alkaline. If you can find an acidic or at least neutral compost, compost can buffer the pH so it acts more neutral.
I don't use compost in my pots because I have problems with pots staying too wet and composts hold to much water. I do use vermicompost, but only a handful. We tested our vermicompost and it was also alkaline because of all the comfrey and kale that went in it, so now we have been adding sulfur to the vermicompost so when it is finished it tests neutral. Sulfur doesn't hurt the worms as long as you don't add too much.
I plant a coupla dozen maters and I was leaning toward mixing in peat moss & using miracle grow for this season . I knew it was alkaline from the way stuff grew last year in these spots so I was ok with the meter. I have had soil tests in the past and they said it was just right but I guess things change. The peat moss should help a bunch from what I read,whaddyathink?
-
rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 25279
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
Don't know what you were looking for. You got two good responses the same day you posted your question. Imafan is right, sulfur which can be found in garden stores, is what is usually recommended for lowering soil pH reasonably quickly. For instant results, don't plant in your soil, build a raised bed and fill it with whatever kind of soil/ growing mix suits you.
If you can find somewhere else that does better than we did, go for it. We get lots of people saying this forum is way more helpful and active than others they have tried.
If you can find somewhere else that does better than we did, go for it. We get lots of people saying this forum is way more helpful and active than others they have tried.
My soil is naturally high in pH. It is consistently between 8.0 and 8.4. From soil tests, elemental sulphur or Aluminum Sulphate was recommended. Rates will vary due to your specific soil. I have used elemental sulphur which will decrease the pH, but it is not a quick fix. Adding sulphur will take between 3 and 6 months to notice a difference for me. The recommendations for me indicated I add it every other year and soil test every third year. Once you begin to amend the soil for pH, realize that soil tends to return to its normal state over time. To keep the pH low it become a continuous addition of sulphur or whatever else you add.
That is correct soils always try to return to their natural state. If you live in an area with a lot of limestone, in my case coral as a base, it will be impossible to permanently change the pH because of all of the Ca.
Adding compost, even though most of them will test alkaline does help to buffer the pH so the soil behaves more neutrally. Adding peat moss is better because it has a natural pH of 5, it is organic so it also buffers the pH a bit.
You either need to plant what grows in your soil and not try to fight nature or as Rainbow said. Make raised beds and amend the soil in the raised bed and add sulfur to correct just that area. I added sulfur every year to get my pH down from 7.8 to7.2. It is not recommended to try to correct more than one point at a time with sulfur.
The reason sulfur takes so long is because soil organisms eventually are the ones that are really changing the pH. As pH changes the dominance of the soil organisms changes so the change needs to occur slowly. It woud be akin to putting a salt water fish into a fresh water lake immediately, they don't survive well when the environment changes abruptly.
Adding compost, even though most of them will test alkaline does help to buffer the pH so the soil behaves more neutrally. Adding peat moss is better because it has a natural pH of 5, it is organic so it also buffers the pH a bit.
You either need to plant what grows in your soil and not try to fight nature or as Rainbow said. Make raised beds and amend the soil in the raised bed and add sulfur to correct just that area. I added sulfur every year to get my pH down from 7.8 to7.2. It is not recommended to try to correct more than one point at a time with sulfur.
The reason sulfur takes so long is because soil organisms eventually are the ones that are really changing the pH. As pH changes the dominance of the soil organisms changes so the change needs to occur slowly. It woud be akin to putting a salt water fish into a fresh water lake immediately, they don't survive well when the environment changes abruptly.
You can mix peat moss with the soil but how much are you planning to add? You would have to add quite a lot to bring the pH down. You should also add sulfur too.
If you have heavy clay soil, does it drain well. Peat moss holds a lot of water and added to a clay soil it can end up retaining a lot of water. Peat moss added to a sandy soil will help it retain more water.
https://homeguides.sfgate.com/acidify-so ... 32039.html
If you have heavy clay soil, does it drain well. Peat moss holds a lot of water and added to a clay soil it can end up retaining a lot of water. Peat moss added to a sandy soil will help it retain more water.
https://homeguides.sfgate.com/acidify-so ... 32039.html
-
lexusnexus
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:06 pm
- Location: MD Suburbs of DC, 7a
I mulch in pine needles, peat and leaves. My ph is always a battle because of the river I live on. There is water 1 to 3 feet down until late summer. My well water and river are 8.4+. My tomatoes usually grow 4 to 6 ft past the top of my 4 ft cages because water is abundant and also very high in Nitrates.
-
Gary350
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 7427
- Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
- Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.
I use to live in Southern Illinois, Carbondale, Fairfield and Mt Carmel. If you live any where in that area your soil is about 6 ph maybe 5.8 in some areas. This is big farm country lots of corn and some soy beans.
If you want peppers to grow faster that lightning till about 50% peat moss into the soil. Tomatoes like peat moss too.
Other crops like squash, corn, greens, beans, all will do good in Illinois soil.
Be sure to add lime. Squash and tomatoes use to always get blossom end rot without lime. The cheapest lime is a $2 bag of cement from Lowes or Home Depot.
They don't have Lowes and Home Depot in those small farm towns so you can get supplies at Rural King store.
I have 2 cousins that live in Southern Illinois both farm about 2000 acres each, every summer. Watch the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w-ZnkeXI7c
If you want peppers to grow faster that lightning till about 50% peat moss into the soil. Tomatoes like peat moss too.
Other crops like squash, corn, greens, beans, all will do good in Illinois soil.
Be sure to add lime. Squash and tomatoes use to always get blossom end rot without lime. The cheapest lime is a $2 bag of cement from Lowes or Home Depot.
They don't have Lowes and Home Depot in those small farm towns so you can get supplies at Rural King store.
I have 2 cousins that live in Southern Illinois both farm about 2000 acres each, every summer. Watch the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w-ZnkeXI7c
-
rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 25279
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
Cement is not lime. People add cement to soil for soil stabilization, that is binding, holding everything together, as an underlayer to roads. Not what you want for your garden.
See here, https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 95&start=0 for other people's responses the last time Gary suggested that.
See here, https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 95&start=0 for other people's responses the last time Gary suggested that.
-
Gary350
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 7427
- Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
- Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.
I can not buy lime in Arizona so I tried cement pre mix with lime stone and it worked. Crazy thing you would think for soil with 8 ph lime would be the last thing it needs. I mixed about 1 cup of cement with 5 gallons of water. Stir well then wait until the next day. All the cement was at the bottom of the bucket. I used only the water on 4 of my 9 tomatoes plants. Blossom End Rot cleared up on the 4 plants getting cement water but BER did not clear up on the 5 plants not getting cement water. After watering the other 5 plants BER cleared up there too.rainbowgardener wrote:Cement is not lime. People add cement to soil for soil stabilization, that is binding, holding everything together, as an underlayer to roads. Not what you want for your garden.
See here, https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 95&start=0 for other people's responses the last time Gary suggested that.
My melons and squash had BER too. After giving them cement water BER was gone a week later.
The cement I bought is a bag of pre mix with lime stone. Lime stone is tiny pieces about the size of corn or peas. Maybe the lime stone was enough to fix BER. There is probably lime stone dust in the cement from the crushed rock.
Online it says, cement is made from powered lime stone baked at 1450 °C in a kiln. Mix it with water a chemical reaction takes place and it converts back to its original form. I know cement can kill plants that is why I mixed it with water and did not use it for 24 hours.
I have put drywall mud and sheet rock in my garden too. It works for BER on tomatoes too but the tomatoes are gritty when you eat them. It is like the tomatoes is loaded with extremely fine sand.
Tennessee State University in Crossville had 6 years of research with sheet rock or gypsum in the garden. It is especially good for sweet potatoes. Do Google search and read about it. I will not put gypsum in my garden anymore I don't like gritty tomatoes.
Adding organic matter buffers pH whether it is high or low, however if it is high, there are choices in organic matter that will make that better or worse
Adding acidic compost or peat moss will lower the pH the fastest and the longest.
Sulfur and Iron Sulfate will lower the pH over a few months, but if your soil is naturally alkaline, repeat applications will be necessary as you cannot permanently fight mother nature.
Adding chicken manure will actually make your pH worse by about a half a point because laying hens are fed calcium
Pine needles are acidic but take up to two years to decompose so not a quick fix and some of the resins in pine needles are alleopathic which is why they are good for weed control but not so good around some plants like alliums.
Cow manure will add nutrients and is not as alkaline, but it still should be composted first and you cannot use a whole lot of it.
If your soil is basically alkaline with a limestone base, raised beds and containers are the way to go for acid loving plants.
As for BER. Blossom end rot is not caused by a deficiency of Ca in the soil, but by the tomato not being able to mobilize it within the plant. It is usually the result of uneven watering. If you water your tomatoes enough when they are in production to keep them from wilting in the summer heat you won't get BER. This is the one thing that self watering containers grew very well. I don't add dolomite lime to my potted tomatoes. They do get some calcium in my starter fertilizer, but not a lot and I haven't had a problem with BER in years.
Adding acidic compost or peat moss will lower the pH the fastest and the longest.
Sulfur and Iron Sulfate will lower the pH over a few months, but if your soil is naturally alkaline, repeat applications will be necessary as you cannot permanently fight mother nature.
Adding chicken manure will actually make your pH worse by about a half a point because laying hens are fed calcium
Pine needles are acidic but take up to two years to decompose so not a quick fix and some of the resins in pine needles are alleopathic which is why they are good for weed control but not so good around some plants like alliums.
Cow manure will add nutrients and is not as alkaline, but it still should be composted first and you cannot use a whole lot of it.
If your soil is basically alkaline with a limestone base, raised beds and containers are the way to go for acid loving plants.
As for BER. Blossom end rot is not caused by a deficiency of Ca in the soil, but by the tomato not being able to mobilize it within the plant. It is usually the result of uneven watering. If you water your tomatoes enough when they are in production to keep them from wilting in the summer heat you won't get BER. This is the one thing that self watering containers grew very well. I don't add dolomite lime to my potted tomatoes. They do get some calcium in my starter fertilizer, but not a lot and I haven't had a problem with BER in years.
-
ElizabethB
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 2105
- Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:53 am
- Location: Lafayette, LA
Art - I kind of skimmed through the posts but did not see where you answered the question of what your current pH is. Unless your pH is ridiculously high you probably don't need to change it. Tomatoes will do fine in a neutral pH (7).
I have done comparison test of results between meters and lab test and the meter test are fairly accurate - IF the directions are followed. When in doubt have a lab test done through your County Extension Office or your state's Land Grant University.
Amending soil - whether it is for pH or nutrients when the amendments are not necessary does more harm than good.
Sorry - I may have missed your reply to the pH question.
I have done comparison test of results between meters and lab test and the meter test are fairly accurate - IF the directions are followed. When in doubt have a lab test done through your County Extension Office or your state's Land Grant University.
Amending soil - whether it is for pH or nutrients when the amendments are not necessary does more harm than good.
Sorry - I may have missed your reply to the pH question.
-
Gary350
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 7427
- Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
- Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.
The best way to test your soil is with litmus paper. You can buy 2 packs from china $1 postage paid on Ebay. Test ph of your water then mix soil with water and test again. If your water tests 5 and your water/soil mix tests 6, 5+6=11 divide by 2= 5.5 ph.ArtB wrote:I guess I didn't answer that now that I looked but the meter said about 8 and the soil tester I bought said 7.5 so not too bad I guess. The time frame was why I didn't get a lab test. I was mostly going by how poorly the maters did in a few places last year combined with those test results.
I bought both models of those electronic soil testers from Lowes and Home Depot my soil tested 5 on one test and 6 on the other test. AZ coop said soil and water are both 8 ph. Litmus paper shows soil and water are both 8 ph. I took a container of soil that I know was 8 ph to Lowes and used 6 testers and they all gave me goofy readings, none of them gave me a reading higher than 6 ph.
I would not trust one of those electronic testers, they all lied to me.