Starting my first veggie garden

[pinksand]

We recently fenced our yard and got a new dog and I haven't seen any deer or deer droppings in our yard since. I decided I might as well give veggies a try this year and see how it goes. The groundhog may still burrow under and I'm sure if the deer were motivated enough they could certainly jump the fence so it would really be an experiment at this point. I was planning to transplant the perennials from an existing raised bed to another garden, work in some compost, and give it a try this spring. The spot is sunny and convenient to the back door going to the kitchen. There are two sections, one is about 5' long and 3' deep and the other is maybe 4' deep and wide.

I want to grow things that we would realistically eat so here's what I've come up with...

Zucchini
Yellow squash
Bell peppers
tomatoes
broccoli
onions? (will these take over?)

I've been looking into companion plants and it seems like nasturtiums and basil might be good to add into the mix. Are any of these not compatible or particularly difficult to grow for a first timer? I'm intimidated by broccoli since it should probably be started by seed now, correct?

How hard is it to grow melons? I love cantaloupe and watermelon. Are there any edibles that are particularly good for a newbie to start with?

Any advice in general would be appreciated! Also, since I'm just starting out I will probably be purchasing baby plants instead of growing from seed.

[rainbowgardener]

We recently fenced our yard and got a new dog and I haven't seen any deer or deer droppings in our yard since. I decided I might as well give veggies a try this year and see how it goes. The groundhog may still burrow under and I'm sure if the deer were motivated enough they could certainly jump the fence so it would really be an experiment at this point. I was planning to transplant the perennials from an existing raised bed to another garden, work in some compost, and give it a try this spring. The spot is sunny and convenient to the back door going to the kitchen. There are two sections, one is about 5' long and 3' deep and the other is maybe 4' deep and wide.

I want to grow things that we would realistically eat so here's what I've come up with...

Zucchini
Yellow squash
Bell peppers
tomatoes
broccoli
onions? (will these take over?)

I've been looking into companion plants and it seems like nasturtiums and basil might be good to add into the mix. Are any of these not compatible or particularly difficult to grow for a first timer? I'm intimidated by broccoli since it should probably be started by seed now, correct?

How hard is it to grow melons? I love cantaloupe and watermelon. Are there any edibles that are particularly good for a newbie to start with?

Any advice in general would be appreciated! Also, since I'm just starting out I will probably be purchasing baby plants instead of growing from seed.

If you have any local gardener friends, I would ask them about the zukes and yellow squash. I have given up on them, since they are so vulnerable to the squash vine borer and the squash bug (and the bacterial wilt that the squash bug carries). It's kind of heart breaking, you grow it out from seed to a big beautiful plant and then practically overnight it is reduced to a wilted nothing. If you are in an area not so troubled by the SVB's, they should be fine.

If you were starting the broccoli from seed, it should have been started already, but since you are buying plants, it should be fine. People say don't plant broccoli and tomatoes together, but I do it all the time. But I plant the broccoli very early, as soon as the ground can be worked. Then 4-5 weeks later after all danger of frost, I plant the tomato seedlings behind them. By the time the tomato plants are getting big and need the space, the broccoli is about done and I pull it promptly, not waiting for every last side shoot it might produce. So the broccoli and tomatoes don't overlap that much.

Onions don't take over for me. But you would need to plant sets in the ground as soon as ground can be worked.

Your 4x4 bed would be enough for 2 tomato plants with some companion stuff around the edges.

Melons aren't hard, but they take up a LOT of space. The cantelopes would be OK if you can grow them up a trellis. Watermelons are even bigger plants and harder to trellis, because you have to give the melon a lot of support.

Think about growing a little bit of swiss chard. If you aren't familiar with it, it is used just like spinach. It is the easiest to grow, most productive plant in my garden, just keeps going and going, from before last spring frost to after first fall frost. Three chard plants would probably give you all the chard you need.

Basil and nasturtium are good companions. Think about adding marigold and alyssum. Alyssum is a little low growing flowering plant, good for edging, doesn't take up much room and its flowers are attractive to a lot of beneficial insects.

[imafan26]

Whatever you choose to plant make sure you leave enough room for them to mature.

Zucchini and yellow squash for me takes up about a 30 inch circle. Broccoli also needs to be at least 18-24 inches apart they take a lot of space
Onions (green onions, chives) are clump forming so they can be spaced closer together
Bulbing onions. You need at least 2-3 inches apart to accommodate the mature bulbs.

tomatoes need a trellis, cage or stake of some kind and need to be planted on the north side or they may shade other plants

Peppers can be planted 1 foot apart but are better at 18 inches to improve air circulation.

Broccoli and onions are cool season crops for me, but the others like it warm.

How about planning your garden for succession

Broccoli, cabbages, peas, onions. kale, lettuce, beets, cilantro, and root crops for cooler months
Tomatoes, peppers, beans, squash, eggplant, watermelon, zucchini, cucumber, corn for the warmer months

Start seedlings indoors and plant short crops like lettuce and spinach in succession

For longer harvests Swiss Chard , Kale, most herbs, eggplant, tomatoes, peppers keep producing for a long time.

[Bobberman]

I think any new gardener should plant the easiest plants to grow a radish. The radish also when it goes to seed will give many pretty flowers in the garden and attract many butterflies. Plant a mix of radish and get different colors of flowers pink and white!Its also a deterrent with some bugs and can be grown with just about any plant! They take less than 30 days to grow most types!

[rainbowgardener]

Good point, Bobber. I never think about radishes. I don't like them, so I don't grow them. First rule, grow what you like to eat. But if you do like radishes, they are good companion plants and very quick and easy to grow and don't take up a lot of room.

[pinksand]

I think any new gardener should plant the easiest plants to grow a radish. The radish also when it goes to seed will give many pretty flowers in the garden and attract many butterflies. Plant a mix of radish and get different colors of flowers pink and white!Its also a deterrent with some bugs and can be grown with just about any plant! They take less than 30 days to grow most types!

Thanks for the suggestion Bobberman. I have heard that radishes are a great place to start but I don't personally like their taste and I don't think my husband would eat them either

@RBG - I only have one friend who grows veggies and she kept giving me zukes the size of my forearm all summer last year. She must not have had trouble with svb. It sounds terrible! I'll plant them this year and see how it goes, keeping an eye out for squash bugs. I totally forgot about leafy greens! I'll definitely give swiss chard a try, thanks!

@Imafan - Thanks so much for all the info! I'll have to be careful about my spacing. My friend who grew veggies last summer completely crowded all her veggies and as you mentioned, the tomatoes overshadowed everything below. It's helpful to have the specific spacing you mentioned because even when I do try to envision the space they'll need when full size, I tend to be way off

If this goes well I'd like to add larger veggie gardens and grow corn, berries, and try out melons. I'm going to ease into it this year

[grrlgeek]

I think any new gardener should plant the easiest plants to grow a radish. The radish also when it goes to seed will give many pretty flowers in the garden and attract many butterflies.

I've been looking into companion plants and it seems like nasturtiums and basil might be...

I have heard that radishes are a great place to start but I don't personally like their taste and I don't think my husband would eat them either

About radishes.... I am looking more fondly upon them as a companion trap crop for my broccoli. Last fall I planted a bunch of broccoli and everysingleday I was out there picking little green worms off my plants. The white cabbage butterflies would see this and taunt me, buzzing over my head, only to land a few plants away then take off as soon as I got close. Hubby bought me a big butterfly net for Christmas, he thought it was so funny.

But back to the fall broccoli... I lost a couple plants early on and didn't want a big hole in my garden so I picked up a six-pack of starter plants at the nursery. I replenished my failures and had a few plants left over.

Out in the front yard, where my new perennial herb/flower bed is going, I had planted a big patch of oilseed radish to break up the hard soil, mine deep for nutrients, and to have green manure to till in. I had piled some compost on top and thought what the heck, and dug in the extra broccoli plants right in the middle of the radish patch. They performed a lot better than expected. Also unexpected, was the complete and total absence of damaged leaves and little green worms. The radishes were not similarly spared. I found worms all over their leaves. Too many to remove. Inches away, the radishes were being nibbled like no tomorrow, and not a single worm on the broccoli.

The white butterflies got word that I replanted broccoli this spring. A few were doing recon passes over the yard last weekend. (I think they never go to ground here.... I see them daily)... Just great, huh? So this weekend, I am going to plant a little wall of radishes all around and between the broccoli. I'll plant something little that I can eat this time, because I kinda like them now and then, but my hope is to lose radishes (which grow in 3 weeks and take up almost no space) rather than my brassicas.

I left some radishes in the ground overwinter and they began flowering within hours of the first warm afternoon. The bees seemed to like the flowers too.

Just a thought, since you mentioned you were going to try broccoli. It might save you some grief to burn a pack of radish seeds for insurance.

Good luck with your garden!

[evtubbergh]

I agree about buying seedling for the first time rather than starting from seed. You could also try a 1 or 2 easy things from seed, like tomatoes but if they have a problem you can always go buy seedlings anyway.

Another really easy crop is spinach and chard (we use them interchangeably here).

P that's a really awesome idea! Good luck

[imafan26]

It is always a good idea to start slowly and expand later. If it is the first time you are planting, you may find you have to tweak the plan and you will need to have to spend some time watching for problems or watering your garden nearly everyday so you should keep the garden a size that you can manage. Once you've tweaked things and gotten familiar with some of the plants they will take less of your time.

[jal_ut]

Zucchini and yellow crook neck grow with fairly short vines, though they can get up to 4 feet long. If you plant 5 seeds near the center of that 4 foot square, they will come out all sides and make a clump of leaves that could be up to 8 feet wide. If you have the space to let them go like this, they will make lots of food.

You didn't mention green beans. For small beds like you mention, bush type green beans would do very well. If you want to push in some bean poles, or make a trellis, you could also grow vining beans.

Peppers and tomatoes have long been favorites of home gardeners. Be advised tomatoes come in both determinate and indeterminate types. The indeterminate types can grow quite long vines. Determinate types do not get so large.

As noted the radish is a good choice to plant as a companion. It will be done before the other crops need the space.

For greens, hard to beat spinach. Chard, and some leaf lettuces are also excellent.

Onions are easy. If you get some sets, just plant them around the edges about 3 inches apart. No they will not take over. One planted is always one. The tops go mostly up and there is just one bulb.

Broccoli, cabbage and related plants do well too, but the bugs love them. If you go with those varieties, you will need to have a plan to keep the bugs off or you won't get much.

Have fun!

[rainbowgardener]

See everyone has different experiences and only time and trying it will tell you what will work for you.

James (jal_) says zucchini give lots of food, but broccoli etc don't do well because the bugs get them.

I can't grow zucchini for anything due to the bugs, but broccoli does great for me. The only thing that bothers it is slugs eating the leaves, but those are pretty easy to control.

[jal_ut]

Yep! Gardening conditions vary from here to there. I think it is our cold winters that keep critters like squash vine borers at bay. In fact I have had very little trouble with any insects bothering the squash.

Anything in the cabbage family on the other hand.... look out. Slugs, aphids, little black beetles, green worms form the cabbage butterfly to name a few pests.

I am just going to suggest that you plant, then keep a close watch on things and watch for bug damage.

Best of luck.

[applestar]

Yes. Around here, Cabbage White butterflies are one of the earliest flying around except for ones that overwinter as adults like Mourning Cloak. So I can imagine that cool temperatures won't faze them.

[pinksand]

Thank you all so much for the tips and advice! I'm excited to give it a try!

[gardeningwithe]

We always have good luck with cucumbers (we trellised them last yr. and think that is a good way to go as they take up less space and for us anyway grew better). If you have a bed you can put a trellis up you could increase your growing space to include vine beans, peas, cucumbers etc. Just try not to start too big the first year. Sit down, make a list of what veggies you (and those in your home) enjoy the most. Pick a few larger plants and then think of filling the space in with the small and quick growers like lettuce, spinach. Good luck!

[pinksand]

I finally got my last veggies in the ground yesterday! I ended up with less space than initially planned because I didn't have the heart to move some of the perennials that are currently in full bloom. I'll do some transplanting in the fall to make more space next year.

I ended up with:

1 Early Girl tomato (just started a thread about creating a sturdy cage for her)
1 yellow squash
Spinach and basil (seeds directly sown have sprouted!)
6 bell peppers spaced 12"-18" apart. I wish I'd given them a bit more room but ran out of space and wanted to get them in the ground (planted yesterday).

Next year I'd love to try green beans when I make more space. I'd also like to get an earlier start next year and get broccoli in the mix! I also have room to expand in an unanticipated direction. The raised bed ends and there's a weedy lawn patch too narrow for the mower now that we have a fence along our property. The wood rails of the raised bed end at a large exposed rock that would be perfect as a natural garden edging so I'd like to smother the grass and weeds up to the fence as well! We have so many boulders under the soil on our property and this is one case where it might actually work in my favor

[rainbowgardener]

All of that is great, pinksand, except if your spinach is just sprouting now, you got quite a late start on it. You and I have similar climates and I have been eating spinach out of my garden for weeks. If it works for you like it does for me, you will get very little harvest at this point before it bolts and goes to seed and isn't any good any longer.

Next year do start earlier for spinach and broccoli.

But everything else should do well for you... enjoy!

[pinksand]

Thanks for the heads up on the spinach RBG. That's unfortunate because I'm a zone ahead of you and probably won't get much of anything out of them. At least the bed will be prepared ahead of time for next year so I can get an earlier start. I had been waiting for my perennials to pop up so I could move them before smothering the area and planting my veggies.