Squash?

[digitS']

I may become a "one from column A, one from column B . . ." squash gardener. I'm happy enough with open-pollinated squash and would be willing to save seeds. However, my neighbor taught me a lesson about squashes mixing.

A problem might be saving summer squash seed since zucchini and others are Cucurbita pepo. And, so are jack o'lantern pumpkins! Yeah, the neighbor allowed some volunteers to survive, found them inedible and left the fruit in the garden. We shared the same "tractor guy" the next year and I had his volunteers all over my garden - including in my squash patch! I mean, the things were like gourds!!!

So, I maybe I should grow Cushaw pumpkins instead of jack o'lantern pumpkins . If I got the story right, these are pumpkins that you would find in a can. They are C. argyrosperma not C. pepo.

Or . . .

Johnny's sells Long Island Cheese Pumpkin seed. It is a Cucurbita moschata. The other story is that canned pumpkin is from one of these! My zucchini seed would be safe but the butternut and spaghetti squash (both C. moschata) would be in danger of the cheese pumpkin "jumping the fence."



Steve

[DoubleDogFarm]

Spaghetti is a Pepo.

Dickinson field pumpkin - 'Libby's Select' uses the Select Dickinson Pumpkin varity of C. moschata for its canned pumpkins


Eric

[digitS']

Spaghetti is a Pepo. . . .

Eric

Ah ha! I should have checked

Steve

[jal_ut]

My son planted a variety of C. maxima squashes. Every variety he could come up with, then saved seeds. The next year he had a bountiful harvest, they had hybrid vigor, but the variety in size shape and color was fantastic. Yet, they are still all squash.

[digitS']

There you go, James!

That is kind of the reverse of my thinking! Everything from Column A!

Maybe I need to reconsider . . .

Steve

[DoubleDogFarm]

[quote="jal_ut"]My son planted a variety of C. maxima squashes. Every variety he could come up with, then saved seeds. The next year he had a bountiful harvest, they had hybrid vigor, but the variety in size shape and color was fantastic. Yet, they are still all squash.


James I like It. I see a lot of C maxima open pollinated seed on Ebay. Did your son start out with a mixture of hybrids and OP?

You have me thinking, I don't like summer squash and most C pepo, so why not a landrace of C. maxima.

Eric

[jal_ut]

Eric, I just had a Butternut squash foe dinner last night. Hard to beat their flavor. I do like Banana and Hubbard squash too. I have some seed for a Banana Hubbard cross, and that squash is excellent.

Here is a picture, the squash in the middle is the hybrid.

[jal_ut]

A problem might be saving summer squash seed since zucchini and others are Cucurbita pepo. And, so are jack o'lantern pumpkins!

If only one variety of C pepo is grown, you can save seed and it will be true to form, however squash grown and open pollinated will freely cross with other varieties within the same species. If you then save seed it is very likely the next years crop will be hybrids and the fruit will be different than either parent. It will still be squash. Squash is usually pollinated by bees/insects, and they spread the pollen around.

Same goes for C maxima. Though C maxima won't cross with C pepo.

If you really want squash true to type and you grow more than one variety of the same species it is best to buy new seed each year.

[DoubleDogFarm]

"hybrid vigor" coined by Charles Darwin 1800s


I read your son's article in Mother Earth News on TPS. Does he have a write up on Maxima squash?

Although Garden City Seeds is committed to breeding new OP varieties and making them available to gardeners, Navazio values certain hybrids, too, for what he calls their "resiliency and instant adaptability." The difference between hybrid and OP vigor, he says, appears most strikingly in specific regions of the country like the Pacific and Mountain states and northern New England, where early-season cold snaps can slow the growth of heat-loving vegetables. In such conditions, many OPs will go into a "holding pattern," but the increased vigor of hybrids helps them grow through the unseasonable weather

https://www.garden.org/subchannels/care/ ... 293&page=3

Eric

[jal_ut]

I don't know for sure. Have you seen his page?

Click

[digitS']

. . .

. . .The difference between hybrid and OP vigor, he says, appears most strikingly in specific regions of the country like the Pacific and Mountain states and northern New England, where early-season cold snaps can slow the growth of heat-loving vegetables. . .

Eric

Yes, that's my garden!

However, on the same page: "For other plants--like squash, melons, cucumbers and tomatoes--the difference between hybrid and OP vigor is generally less noticeable. . . "

I was hoping that I could just cross 2 tomato varieties that I am happy with and come up with a hybrid that I'm also happy with. If everything comes out okay, I did the crossing a couple months ago with Buisson and Kimberely tomatoes. The mother plant is in my greenhouse "trying" to ripen the fruit!

"Hybrid vigor" was what I was hoping would may the real difference.

Carol Deppe in "Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties" says: "There is an extensive hybrid seed industry for tomatoes, even though they don't display inbreeding depression and thus there is no special biological advantage to the hybrids."

I suppose this takes away one of the good reasons for my attempt but I am still hoping. Good thing I didn't read Deppe first .

Steve

[DoubleDogFarm]

James you are a bad influence or is it your son. I just purchased 15 different C Maxima off of Ebay. I believe they are all advertised non-GMO and Open pollinated.

From Joseph's facebook page I followed to his squash article. He talks about a two squash crosses. Can three or more squash cross in a given year. All maximas of course.


Eric

[jal_ut]

Talking squash:
There needs to be a pollen grain for each seed in the female blossom. One trip from a bee will not be enough. So since it takes pollen from several bee visits to adequately pollinate each female squash blossom, and if there are several varieties of squash nearby, it is feasible that one fruit could have seed that was pollinized by several other varieties and if seeds were saved and planted the following year, you could get quite a variety of size, color, shape and flavor. Yes, just one fruit can contain several crosses.

[jal_ut]

Click

[jal_ut]

Today for lunch we cooked a chunk of a maxima pumpkin, and a chunk of that maxima squash that was the hybrid of the Hubbard and the Banana. The squash hybrid was the better of the two. The pumpkin was rather watery and low on flavor in comparison.

I'll say it again: Pumpkins are for decorations.

[DoubleDogFarm]

Thank you for the taste comparison James. "To water" is one reason I don't like summer squash. I prefer a drier rich flavor.

Five of the seed, off of Ebay, have Pumpkin in their name. All Maxima

HEIRLOOM TRIAMBLE PUMPKIN
https://sustainableseedco.com/heirloom-v ... seeds.html

HEIRLOOM JAUNE GROS DE PARIS Pumpkin https://sustainableseedco.com/heirloom-v ... seeds.html

HEIRLOOM GALEUX D'EYSINES PUMPKIN
https://sustainableseedco.com/heirloom-v ... seeds.html

HEIRLOOM CINDERELLA PUMPKIN
https://sustainableseedco.com/certified- ... -seed.html

HEIRLOOM MARINA DI CHIOGGIA PUMPKIN
https://sustainableseedco.com/heirloom-v ... seeds.html


Eric

[jal_ut]

Looks like you have 5 varieties of decorations?

You may have some seed from this pumpkin. Oh, yes we should name it. How about "Heirloom Paradise Landrace Pumpkin" ?

[DoubleDogFarm]

I looked up all 5 and only CINDERELLA seems to be most pumpkin like.

I added the links to my previous post.

"Paradise Landrace pumpkin". I like it.


Eric

[jal_ut]

I looked at the links. Some interesting squash there. That Galeux D'eysines sure looks good with that thick flesh.

My gosh, if you plant a hill of each of those, you will have squash by the truck load.

I am afraid my maxima pumpkins this year may have crossed with other maxima squash. There were 5 or six varieties of maxima in that patch.

[jal_ut]

My maxima pumpkin. Mind you this was not the largest one.

I took it in and cut it up.

I had already taken enough from that pumpkin to make a couple of meals. (the hole in the first picture )

Anyone need pumpkin?

[jal_ut]

Just trying to eat this one pumpkin. I can eat a piece every day for almost three weeks . Then to think I have eight more of them, plus a truckload of other squashes from my patch this year. I am thinking squash produces a lot of food. Much more than I will be able to eat. Help!

[DoubleDogFarm]

Just trying to eat this one pumpkin. I can eat a piece every day for almost three weeks . Then to think I have eight more of them, plus a truckload of other squashes from my patch this year. I am thinking squash produces a lot of food. Much more than I will be able to eat. Help!

James, I will be sharing some with the neighbor
[youtudotbe]https://youtu.be/tlofNRa3U1Y[/youtudotbe]


Eric

[jal_ut]

Though I practice organic principles in my gardening, I do not use that word (Organic) in selling produce at market. Too much political and legal hype associated with the word.

[DoubleDogFarm]

I would say, "grown with organic tecniques, but not certified"

I had one customer ask, and I told her the line above. She started filling a 1020 flat with vegetable starts. She had about a dozen 4" pots in the flat and then asked if the seed was organic. My answer was "um, oh, er not sure" She set the flat down and walked away. She was buying the plants for a landscaping customer and she needed to be sure.

I may not have sold her any plants, but earned her as a repair customer. I worked on her John deere lawn tractor, a leaf blower and a walkbehind mower. It's all good

Eric

[jal_ut]

The sad fact of the matter is: Those "Organic" plants are no better in any way than any others.

(Now watch me get beat up for saying it.)

Of course all plants are organic by the definition of the word.

[jal_ut]

Seems I am not smart enough to get the photo to load?

[TheWaterbug]

I've got powdery mildew again, as always.

5 days ago I sprayed a medium solution of potassium bicarbonate (2 Tbsp/gal) as suggested by pepperhead last year, but it was pretty late in the season, so I already had a pretty big infection already.

For my own future reference, that's a 1/2 cup of KCHO3 into my 4 gallon GhostBusters sprayer:



I can't tell if it's having any positive effect, but as of today it hasn't had any negative effect.

My patch is about 3,000 sf, so it took about 10 gal of solution and 45 minutes to spray it all.

Next year I'll have to start as soon as I have big leaves.

[jal_ut]

"My patch is about 3,000 sf, "

That's a big patch. Good luck with the powdery mildew. I have not seen that here. (Knock on wood,)

[digitS']

Fun reading my posts through this 5 year-old thread. I went on something of a rant about farmers' markets, then drifted off with my enthusiasm for winter squash.

(If you'd like to know , I wasn't successful with my tomato hybridizing. I had no idea until I started handling the blossoms with my clumsy digitS' that they are so tiny and delicate . It's okay, I enjoy others' varieties and hybrids and have a few that have crossed on their own in my garden. They are fun!)

James, you should be happy to not have powdery mildew in your squash. Recent years, I have planted additional summer squash anticipating that I will have pulled the spring plants by now because of mildew. I guess it only happens about one year in 3 or 4 and not this year! I'm starting to have have more zucchini than I can shake a stick at with both May and July 1st plants producing!

Steve
growing Autumn Crown again this year, like it!

[jal_ut]

[jal_ut]

Guess you can click the link and view the picture. What the heck do you have to do to get the pic to show up on the post?

[jal_ut]

[img src=]https://www.flickr.com/photos/148851736 ... ed-public/[/img]

Try another one....... No dice

[jal_ut]

Hmmm....... it seems Photobucket has lost it, so my picture doesn't show any more. Well lets try one on another server?



Guess I ain't smart enough to get it to load? You can right click the icon and open it in another tab?

[jal_ut]