I have a small raised bed garden (10' x 30') but I try to stuff A LOT of different veggies in there. I've only had the garden for one year so this will be my 2nd year planting. But since the area is so small, and I have so many different veggies, I don't see how I can get everything totally into a different area. Especially since I have some trellises, which has to go in the back otherwise it will block the sun, as well as corn will have to go in the back and tomatoes since these are all tall and will block the sun. Plus, about 1/3 of the garden gets less sunlight than the rest - maybe 5-6 hours a day as opposed to 8, so I put the cooler weather vegetables here. And on top of all this, I know that some veggies can't be planted near each other. So you see how I have a real problem here?
So here is a list of my veggies - can ANY of them be planted in the same spot???
Lettuce (16 plants)
Peppers (16 plants)
Tomatoes (6 plants)
Broccoli (6 plants)
Onions (a lot)
Potatoes (16 plants)
Corn (a lot, but I am going to rows of 2 this year and self-pollinate)
Peas (on a trellis)
Green Beans
Cucumber (on a trellis)
Celery (only a couple plants)
Dill (only a couple plants)
Basil (only a couple plants)
Chives (only a couple plants)
Cilantro (only a couple plants)
Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated!!!
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rainbowgardener
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Honestly, crop rotation is recommended, but not really necessary. I have a small city lot, lots of which is shaded, so I have very limited spots to put things like tomatoes. So they go in the same spots every year. I have never lost any plants to disease (though they may struggle some with septoria in humid years, I don't think that is unique to me) and generally they do fine.
Hello SLC. Ken here in the Chicago area. I found some great companion planting
tables for you. They show what to plant with and what not to plant with your
veggies. Let us know what you decide on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companion_plants
https://www.gardentoad.com/companionplants.html
https://deepgreenpermaculture.com/compan ... ing-table/
tables for you. They show what to plant with and what not to plant with your
veggies. Let us know what you decide on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companion_plants
https://www.gardentoad.com/companionplants.html
https://deepgreenpermaculture.com/compan ... ing-table/
10 x 30 is still pretty big for a vegetable plot depending on how much your family can eat. (It is twice my the size of my home vegetable garden. I save space by planting bigger and longer lived plants in pots around the yard.)
Some of the things you listed can be grown in succession or under some of the larger plants before they get too big.
You could get one cycle of cilantro and lettuces to go under young peppers before they need the space; you could even throw in a few beets and spinach.
Corn takes up a lot of space but you can plant beans, squash and sunflowers as companions. the beans will be planted a little later and climb up the cornstalks. The sunflowers will give you seeds and attract pollinators. The squash will act as a living mulch and keep the weeds down planted beneath the corn.
Herbs can be tucked in here and there.
Some of the things you listed can be grown in succession or under some of the larger plants before they get too big.
You could get one cycle of cilantro and lettuces to go under young peppers before they need the space; you could even throw in a few beets and spinach.
Corn takes up a lot of space but you can plant beans, squash and sunflowers as companions. the beans will be planted a little later and climb up the cornstalks. The sunflowers will give you seeds and attract pollinators. The squash will act as a living mulch and keep the weeds down planted beneath the corn.
Herbs can be tucked in here and there.
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rainbowgardener
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
SLC can let us know, but I'm thinking:
can ANY of them be planted in the same spot [implied --that they were in last year]?
was a question about crop rotation, and what things are ok to plant in the same place, rather than moving them to a new spot.
It quickly gets complicated. If you think about what crops are good to precede and follow each other (nitrogen fixers vs nitrogen consumers) or not (if you are doing crop rotation, tomatoes should not go back in the same spot until at least the third year, and no other nightshade family plants should go there either, like peppers and eggplant). Then if you try to add in the needs of all the different plants, for sun, water, enriched or lean soil, companion plants.... It's why applestar obsessively makes her detailed charts, where everything is planned out for three years what goes where and if you change one thing, then everything changes.
But not rotating has worked ok for me and I've been gardening in the same places for 12 years now.
can ANY of them be planted in the same spot [implied --that they were in last year]?
was a question about crop rotation, and what things are ok to plant in the same place, rather than moving them to a new spot.
It quickly gets complicated. If you think about what crops are good to precede and follow each other (nitrogen fixers vs nitrogen consumers) or not (if you are doing crop rotation, tomatoes should not go back in the same spot until at least the third year, and no other nightshade family plants should go there either, like peppers and eggplant). Then if you try to add in the needs of all the different plants, for sun, water, enriched or lean soil, companion plants.... It's why applestar obsessively makes her detailed charts, where everything is planned out for three years what goes where and if you change one thing, then everything changes.
But not rotating has worked ok for me and I've been gardening in the same places for 12 years now.
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jal_ut
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- Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:20 pm
- Location: Northern Utah Zone 5
Companion planting is something that has garnered a lot of attention over many years. The ability of some species to repel certain pests is one reason companions work. However you cannot overlook the fact that any plants planted too close to each other are in direct competition with each other for water, soil nutrients and sunshine. Often times both would do better if given their own, and enough, space.
Another myth that is perpetrated is that beans help corn because of the nitrogen fixing bacteria on the roots of beans. Fact is that common beans are a poor nitrogen fixer. Also most of the nitrogen that is fixed is used by the beans. It is not available for the corn to use. Now when the beans are done and if the remains are left on the ground and tilled in, as the plant is broken down some nitrogen becomes available for other crops that follow. So the best thing to do is follow beans with corn. Beans planted with corn is weeds.
We hear about the "three sisters", corn beans and squash. Yes, they can be grown together in the same patch, however I will guarantee that they would all do better if given their own space.
Sunflowers are said to be allelopathic. In other words they produce chemicals that inhibit the growth of some other plants. This subject is worth some research and reading. I bring it up here just to caution you that some things may not do well near or following sunflowers.
Black walnut trees are also allelopathic.
I am fortunate in that I have plenty of room and prefer to give plants their own space and plenty of it.
Another myth that is perpetrated is that beans help corn because of the nitrogen fixing bacteria on the roots of beans. Fact is that common beans are a poor nitrogen fixer. Also most of the nitrogen that is fixed is used by the beans. It is not available for the corn to use. Now when the beans are done and if the remains are left on the ground and tilled in, as the plant is broken down some nitrogen becomes available for other crops that follow. So the best thing to do is follow beans with corn. Beans planted with corn is weeds.
We hear about the "three sisters", corn beans and squash. Yes, they can be grown together in the same patch, however I will guarantee that they would all do better if given their own space.
Sunflowers are said to be allelopathic. In other words they produce chemicals that inhibit the growth of some other plants. This subject is worth some research and reading. I bring it up here just to caution you that some things may not do well near or following sunflowers.
Black walnut trees are also allelopathic.
I am fortunate in that I have plenty of room and prefer to give plants their own space and plenty of it.
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rainbowgardener
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
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jal_ut
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 7447
- Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:20 pm
- Location: Northern Utah Zone 5
Crop rotation is good if it can be done. Different plants have different requirements from the soil to some degree, and to avoid pests and disease it makes sense. However I had a plot one time by the foundation of the house where I planted tomatoes for many years. They did well. I have also planted corn several years running in the same plot with no problems.
Best thing we can do is take care of our soil.
Oh, here is a paper on nitrogen fixation that is certainly worth a read. It is from a university. I give more credence to university studies than what I might read in some gardening magazine written by a writer who just had to get something out this month.
Best thing we can do is take care of our soil.
Oh, here is a paper on nitrogen fixation that is certainly worth a read. It is from a university. I give more credence to university studies than what I might read in some gardening magazine written by a writer who just had to get something out this month.
Crop rotation is used a lot for pest control. It is true if you did not have pest problems you can plant the same thing in the same place for years. Tomatoes actually do like to be in the same place. If however, you start to have significant problems, crop rotation should be considered an option.
The other reason to rotate is to balance the soil nutrients. If you are continually adding compost, manure, fertilizer you are replacing nutrients that were lost. As long as your crops do not show a decline you don't have to do much of anything. It would still be a good idea to get a soil test done every couple of years because your soils may still be unbalanced and maybe you don't need to add as much of one thing or another. You may want to plant certain types of plants to scavenge excess nutrients or correct soil pH.
True, beans do not fix that much nitrogen especially if they are in a nitrogen rich environment. If they are planted as a cover crop, it works better if they are inoculated first and tilled in when they flower to maximize nitrogen fixation.
Growing beans with the corn is to save space. I also plant the beans a little later so the corn is harvested and the stalks are mainly used as a bean trellis. Corn is a heavy nitrogen user, beans don't need that much nitrogen if they have nitrogen fixing bacteria to provide for them, since they don't compete with each other for the same nutrient at the same time, they are good companions.
I plant sunflowers only on the perimeter of the corn. They are alleopathic only around their root zones (2ft diameter). I only plant 2-4 sunflowers mostly to attract pollinators and my friend has a parrot. The squash vines don't care they spread all over the ground and will still try to climb anything in the way. I try to plant short vine varieties. I once had a Tahitian squash that took over half my back yard and was making a break for the neighbor's yard through the fence.
With a small garden. Space is premium and I have to get as much as I can into it without compromising air circulation. That is why my bigger, spreading plants are planted in pots and other spots in the yard where they can have the space they need to spread out.
It is why I inter plant lettuce and beets, and plant short crops like lettuce under young pepper plants.
I plant corn, beans, squash together to maximize the use of the space. I really like home grown corn, but it takes up a lot of space. But, I will eat every ear I produce. If I can get three or four things in the same space
it just works out better.
I trellis tomatoes, cucumbers, peas, beans.
I will also plant more crops that I can get multiple harvests from, and definitely taste better fresh than store bought, like herbs, swiss chard, kale, eggplant, tomatoes, cucumbers, and hot peppers.
I plant what is relatively expensive, easy to grow, makes good use of the space, and I use a lot of. For example tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, green onions, cucumbers, and ginger. I don't plant bulbing onions, potatoes and carrots because I cannot plant enough to supply my needs, they are relatively cheap to buy, store well, and they don't grow all that well for me.
I grow a few marigolds, nasturtiums, and flowering plants to attract pollinators and beneficial insects. I have problems with thrips, they are easy to kill, but I tolerate their damage since I cannot kill them without killing the beneficial insects too. I do have to keep the dill away from the tomatoes, and the corn attracts a lot of purple ladybugs.
The other reason to rotate is to balance the soil nutrients. If you are continually adding compost, manure, fertilizer you are replacing nutrients that were lost. As long as your crops do not show a decline you don't have to do much of anything. It would still be a good idea to get a soil test done every couple of years because your soils may still be unbalanced and maybe you don't need to add as much of one thing or another. You may want to plant certain types of plants to scavenge excess nutrients or correct soil pH.
True, beans do not fix that much nitrogen especially if they are in a nitrogen rich environment. If they are planted as a cover crop, it works better if they are inoculated first and tilled in when they flower to maximize nitrogen fixation.
Growing beans with the corn is to save space. I also plant the beans a little later so the corn is harvested and the stalks are mainly used as a bean trellis. Corn is a heavy nitrogen user, beans don't need that much nitrogen if they have nitrogen fixing bacteria to provide for them, since they don't compete with each other for the same nutrient at the same time, they are good companions.
I plant sunflowers only on the perimeter of the corn. They are alleopathic only around their root zones (2ft diameter). I only plant 2-4 sunflowers mostly to attract pollinators and my friend has a parrot. The squash vines don't care they spread all over the ground and will still try to climb anything in the way. I try to plant short vine varieties. I once had a Tahitian squash that took over half my back yard and was making a break for the neighbor's yard through the fence.
With a small garden. Space is premium and I have to get as much as I can into it without compromising air circulation. That is why my bigger, spreading plants are planted in pots and other spots in the yard where they can have the space they need to spread out.
It is why I inter plant lettuce and beets, and plant short crops like lettuce under young pepper plants.
I plant corn, beans, squash together to maximize the use of the space. I really like home grown corn, but it takes up a lot of space. But, I will eat every ear I produce. If I can get three or four things in the same space
it just works out better.
I trellis tomatoes, cucumbers, peas, beans.
I will also plant more crops that I can get multiple harvests from, and definitely taste better fresh than store bought, like herbs, swiss chard, kale, eggplant, tomatoes, cucumbers, and hot peppers.
I plant what is relatively expensive, easy to grow, makes good use of the space, and I use a lot of. For example tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, green onions, cucumbers, and ginger. I don't plant bulbing onions, potatoes and carrots because I cannot plant enough to supply my needs, they are relatively cheap to buy, store well, and they don't grow all that well for me.
I grow a few marigolds, nasturtiums, and flowering plants to attract pollinators and beneficial insects. I have problems with thrips, they are easy to kill, but I tolerate their damage since I cannot kill them without killing the beneficial insects too. I do have to keep the dill away from the tomatoes, and the corn attracts a lot of purple ladybugs.
In my experience, not rotating your crops will lead to soil depletion and pest problems, if not in the second growing season, definitely in the next few. Especially if you are growing in a raised bed or using potting mixes rather than actual soil.
Like you, I just have one garden bed and must always put the large plants in the back or on the sides so they can grow up trellises. The past few years I have been shoveling most of the soil out of the raised bed and storing it in 16 gallon containers and laying down the previous years' soil and then amending it. I can't let the bed lay fallow, but I can let most of the soil do so.
This is still not preferable to rotation, but it seems to be helping. Also this year the disease resistant Peron Sprayless tomatoes are doing markedly better than the other (heat tolerant) varieties I used. So, if you can find some disease resistant plants, that'd be good.
Can't think of too many things that do well in the same place, year after year. Plants that reproduce by sending out runners or pups (strawberries, bananas, bromeliads, etc) are usually grown continuously in the same bed, season after season without ill effect. It keeps them from spreading to unwanted areas.
Like you, I just have one garden bed and must always put the large plants in the back or on the sides so they can grow up trellises. The past few years I have been shoveling most of the soil out of the raised bed and storing it in 16 gallon containers and laying down the previous years' soil and then amending it. I can't let the bed lay fallow, but I can let most of the soil do so.
This is still not preferable to rotation, but it seems to be helping. Also this year the disease resistant Peron Sprayless tomatoes are doing markedly better than the other (heat tolerant) varieties I used. So, if you can find some disease resistant plants, that'd be good.
Can't think of too many things that do well in the same place, year after year. Plants that reproduce by sending out runners or pups (strawberries, bananas, bromeliads, etc) are usually grown continuously in the same bed, season after season without ill effect. It keeps them from spreading to unwanted areas.
Yes, you are correct, that was my original question. Thank you everyone for your responses, as well as the companion planting. The plan is to use the leftover plants from last year that have been composting with grass and leaves, etc. and mix it all in to the original soil, along with some plant food. That's if I can get the boyfriend to help (he's the tiller operater). If not, I have some plant food I can rake in myself. As long as some people have done it with no problems, maybe I can too. I guess I will give a try and cross my fingers! I too worked endlessly on a planting chart last year, and it looks like I'll be doing it again this year trying to move what I can around, and what I can't, we'll see what happens!rainbowgardener wrote:SLC can let us know, but I'm thinking:
can ANY of them be planted in the same spot [implied --that they were in last year]?
was a question about crop rotation, and what things are ok to plant in the same place, rather than moving them to a new spot.
Again, thank you all for the advice!