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lakngulf
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Greens, Greens and more Greens

I have planted a lot of "Greens". Each year I plant about five pounds of purple top turnips in one of my deer food plots. The deer love them and so do I. Plus, I planted about a dozen collard plants in my garden, along with more turnips, and curly leaf mustard (my favorite). I read somewhere that the greens in the garden, plowed under in the spring, will help with soil nutrition and possibly help with any tomato fungal problems.

Well, they are all getting big enough to eat. My Mom (87) lives near the hunting property and is able to drive her jeep right up beside the food plot turnips. She had some Monday while I was up hunting and they were great. This patch got rains at the right time, and is growing great. The deer have acorns in the woods so they have not hammered them yet.

I am heading back to the farm today after work, and have some curly mustard and collards that I picked from my garden this morning. Can't wait for my Mom to cook them with some hot cornbread.
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Love my greens too. I picked enough collards a few days ago to cook a nice pot full-----at least it was full when I started, but you know greens. By the time they were finished, that full pot shrunk down to about 1/5th a pot full.

Boy, were they good. I can't wait until we have a couple frosts to enhance the flavor of them. And I'm with you on the cornbread. I like mine with some cut up Jalapeno peppers and cheddar cheese mixed in it for a little more zip in flavor.

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I make my cornbread with kernals of corn, cumin, and cheese in it.
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edelweiss
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Hello

I noticed all of you talked about ,,collard''plants. It is :oops: but I have no idea what they are. Can anybody explain to me please?
''On your way through life don't worry if you stumble now and then. Only worms can't fall down.'' Jean Pare

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lakngulf
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Re: Hello

edelweiss wrote:I noticed all of you talked about ,,collard''plants. It is :oops: but I have no idea what they are. Can anybody explain to me please?
This picture shows my collard plants just after I put them out. The plants are much larger now with leaves as big as half sheet of paper

[img]https://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/lakngulf/2012_Summer/IMG_0844.jpg[/img]

Here is a site that shows some after picking, and one guy's method of preparing.

https://davessfggarden.blogspot.com/2011/07/collard-greens.html
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Hello again

Thank you for responding, even with a photo and site. Really appreciate! :D
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Re: Hello

edelweiss wrote:I noticed all of you talked about ,,collard''plants. It is :oops: but I have no idea what they are. Can anybody explain to me please?
Collard greens are my personal favorite. They grow vigorously in my climate and are milder than turnip greens and mustard greens. I find there is less of a "bite" to the back of the throat when eating them as far as heat is concerned.

When I cook them, I'll clean them in cold water and cut the leaves into squares about 2"x2". I'll then take about 2 tbsp. of bacon grease, a large onion diced, 2-3 cloves of garlic minced and about 1/2 lb. of smoke sausage cut in 1/2 inch rings and brown this in a large pot. Then I'll add the cut greens to the pot along with a cup of chicken stock and let this cook down over a medium/low heat for about 1 hr. The greens will lose a lot of volume during the cooking process and I like them with a little resistance to the bite, kind of like pasta cooked al dente.

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digitS'
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This is something I've an interest in -- greens!

I grew kale many years ago and left it all year to enjoy in the winter. It took me quite awhile before I was willing to grow it again . . . Now, we harvest Scotch kale right thru the growing season and use it in stir-fries, mostly.

About 20+ years ago, I began growing Shanghai bok choy. Everyone who has had Chinese food at a restaurant has probably eaten it but the idea of growing it myself took a long time. I was soon sprinkling a little bok choy seed every couple of weeks, almost right thru the growing season. It can't take the real heat of summer but I plant more on the beds where potatoes are dug in early August. It's great right now and has survived a half dozen light frosts.

With the bok choy on that bed is choy sum. Choy sum is supposed to begin to bolt to seed before harvest. Unfortunately, the variety I got from Kitazawa has bolted when is almost too tiny to fit on a fork . . . Fortunately, I bought choy sum many years ago, probably from Evergreen, and saved the seed. It doesn't behave quite so poorly and I had a nice mess of it earlier this week - the stems are very tender.

Kaailan (Guy Lon) does okay for me but I haven't had good luck with Broccoli Raab. The arid climate here is a little tough on some greens.

I also grow an Asian mustard but it has been many years since I've grown turnips. The roots aren't a favorite. By the way, bok choy is, sort of, a turnip. Komatsuna is also in that family and Senposai is a cross between this family & cabbage, the seed catalog tells us. I can get Senposai to grow quite large in my garden.

Something that worked well for the 1st time - new-to-me - was Portuguese kale. I have tried to grow collards before without much success. Portuguese kale must be quite a bit like collards and it did great! Once again, we ate the leaves thru the growing season - and, that was right thru the growing season. This green didn't give up during mid-summer! Of course, both the Scotch kale and the Portuguese kale plants began to look like miniature palm trees late in the season with all the harvesting of the lower leaves.

I think that northern gardeners may enjoy growing Portuguese kale if they cannot grow collards.

Steve
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I love collards too but I need sometjing smaller for my small beds.

Enjoying komatsuna now for a few weeks, need to sow some more. Thinking of trying the choy's, thanks for the reminder Steve.
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Greens in rotation

Turnips and mustard release compounds that tend to reduce harmful fungus. They are a naturant fumagent.

Collards are the most nutritious of the bunch. The tannins will bond if you cook them with particalized meat. Reduces the bitter flavor.

Turnips and okra are the greens I eat raw. The others I cook.

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What is "particalized meat"?

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maybe "particularized"

particularly with meat??

Eric

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PunkRotten
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applestar wrote:What is "particalized meat"?
I think it means cut meat - in particles.

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digitS'
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I have no idea if this has anything to do with "particalized meat" and the correct definition may have already been given.

You can take kale and meat and cook, cook, cook, cook them together for several hours . . ! The meat will break apart and kind of glue itself to the greens. Surprisingly, the greens don't just disintegrate into juice. The whole thing will seem kind of "glutenous" but I am sure that I'm using the wrong words.

You will also have something :shock: that I am not very inclined to eat! I mean, the flavor seems burnt to me! No, this may be a traditional way of cooking greens in some homes, and Heaven knows, my mother was willing to overcook every vegetable before it showed up on the table. Still, she didn't cook kale like this. (But then again, she didn't cook bok choy, at all :wink: .)

If the kale somehow requires this much cooking to be edible, I'd just as soon drop those leaves in the compost. I harvest kale just like most any other green - while it is young & tender.

Steve
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digitS' wrote:I have no idea if this has anything to do with "particalized meat" and the correct definition may have already been given.

You can take kale and meat and cook, cook, cook, cook them together for several hours . . ! The meat will break apart and kind of glue itself to the greens. Surprisingly, the greens don't just disintegrate into juice. The whole thing will seem kind of "glutenous" but I am sure that I'm using the wrong words.

You will also have something :shock: that I am not very inclined to eat! I mean, the flavor seems burnt to me! No, this may be a traditional way of cooking greens in some homes, and Heaven knows, my mother was willing to overcook every vegetable before it showed up on the table. Still, she didn't cook kale like this. (But then again, she didn't cook bok choy, at all :wink: .)

If the kale somehow requires this much cooking to be edible, I'd just as soon drop those leaves in the compost. I harvest kale just like most any other green - while it is young & tender.

Steve

I never cook greens, including Kale, for more than an hour or so on a medium low fire once the pot heats up. I especially like Kale cut into
1 1/2 inch squares and put in my chicken noodle soup for a bit of texture. I'll also eat Kale raw in salads, but some folks find it to be a bit coarse for their liking.

Sounds like your mother and mine went to the same "Cook it to oblivion cooking school for vegetables" that destroys any texture, flavor and nutritional value. I vividly remember eating broccoli boiled so long you needed a spoon to eat it.

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Particalized

No Scotty, it does not mean a one way trip through the transporter. It does mean small pieces of meat: ground beef, flaked fish, pulled pork, etc. Egg is not a good idea because the tannin will curdle the protein. Small pieces maximizes the protein surface for tannin bonding. I cook collards 30-45 minutes and kale 45-60 minutes. Any longer and the lutein and zeaxanthin will be greatly reduced.
Last edited by Artemesia on Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Jeez... sounds like what gumbo said "cooking to oblivion." I don't have much experience with collards, but I stir fry kale with garlic and onions for like 5 minutes, just so it is wilted.

Stir fry the garlic and onions first until the onions are soft and translucent and then add the roughly chopped kale for the last few minutes.
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I was first introduced to kale in a signature salad at a health food store lunch counter. I love that salad so much and now that I've moved away from the area I tried to replicate it as best I could. This is still my favorite way to eat kale.

The kale salad is combined with cooked brown rice, whole roasted and raw almonds, carrot matchsticks, red onion slices, and topped with alfalfa sprouts. The kale looks slightly wilted. I find that the appearance and texture can be achieved by tossing the kale torn into pieces with freshly cooked brown rice and the dressing (fresh lemon juice, apple cider vinegar and EVOO are major components), then adding the remaining ingredients.

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digitS'
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There are more than one kale variety/species.

Now that I say that, I'll admit that I know next to nothing about it. Even tho' . . . I've been growing Scotch kale for quite a few years again. What I haven't done, is grow Russian kale.

Evidently, Russian kale is Brassica napus or, at least, that is what we learn on this webpage: [url=https://seedambassadors.org/Mainpages/still/napuskale/napuskale.htm]All about Russian & Siberian Kale (napus kale)[/url]

Since I've never bothered to grow nor buy Russian kale, I don't know if it is more suitable for short cooking times or in a salad. I didn't even know that there was a genetic difference, just one of appearance.

Scotch kale is Brassica oleracea. That is the same species as cabbage and collards. I grew Portuguese kale this year and loved it! I'm still not sure how closely related it is to collards. My idea/experience was that collards wasn't a good choice in my garden. The Portuguese kale did fine . . . but, I didn't think to try it raw . . .

Steve
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rainbowgardener wrote:Jeez... sounds like what gumbo said "cooking to oblivion." I don't have much experience with collards, but I stir fry kale with garlic and onions for like 5 minutes, just so it is wilted.

Stir fry the garlic and onions first until the onions are soft and translucent and then add the roughly chopped kale for the last few minutes.
Try it in chicken noodle soup. I have been doing that for several years now and it is great in it. I simply put it in the same time I put in the pasta, turn the fire off and let it soak in the hot broth. The pasta cooks and the kale wilts a bit but retains a good bit of its texture. It adds a little substance to an otherwise fairly thin soup.

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Red Russian Kale fall 2012
[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Double%20Dog%20Farm%20%20%20Garden%20Vegetables/Fall-WinterGarden2012002.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Double%20Dog%20Farm%20%20%20Garden%20Vegetables/Fall-WinterGarden2012003.jpg[/img]

Put some in your smoothies.

Eric

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Least cooking time

Cooking time all depends on maturity and processing. I prefer to allow my greens to fully mature and get a little frost. That makes them more nutritious and taste better. Unfortunately they can be like chewing rubber. When I was young and not worried about their goitrogenic effects, I ate them raw. Now I cook them. A full pot takes 30-45 minutes to heat to the center. A small pot much less. When I dry them they need even less to reconstitute, but they do need to steep awhile.

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Red Russian kale, the only kind I've grown, cooks well with about 15 to 20 minutes of...poaching? sautéing? self-steaming after a sauté? All or any of these.

When I make udon, I do the "bring to a boil three times, add a half cup of water each time, let it stand for 15 to 20 minutes after the last time with the lid on" method for the udon. But! I prepare chopped kale / chard / spinach / something green along with other at-hand veggies. I layer them on top of the water, gently submerge them with a wooden spoon until the water is *just* over them, then put the lid back on the pot.

15 to 20 minutes later, I have udon with veggies. And it is GOOD STUFF.

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Greens Update
The "greens" are growing. We have had some nights into the low 40s so it won't be long before they will be at their best. Here are updated pictures of collard greens, curly leaf mustard, and purple top turnips. Sorry, I took picture early this AM and the flash sorta washed out the green of the collards.

[img]https://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/lakngulf/001_2012_10/IMG_0893.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/lakngulf/001_2012_10/IMG_0894.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/lakngulf/001_2012_10/IMG_0896.jpg[/img]

Look closely and some have already begun to make turnip roots. They will be good too
[img]https://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/lakngulf/001_2012_10/IMG_0897.jpg[/img]
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lakngulf
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Our temps have been in the 20s lately. I think these greens like the cold temps

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Love greens - my faves are mustard and beet greens. G really likes collards. He cooks them only in the water on the leaves from rinsing with taso and sauteed onions. I like mustard and turnip greens when young. The do get bitter with age. Beet greens are to die for! Cook with only the rinse water on the leaves with butter and a little salt. Sweet, tender almost buttery texture. A much over looked delicacy. I am such a pig for beet greens that I really have to cook a lot just to get some to the table. The bonus from beet and turnip greens are the lovely roots. As a kid I hated beets - Mom was serving canned beets and I could not stand them. Fresh beets are unbelievably good.
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lakngulf
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Interesting, I have never tried beet greens. Have never grown beets. Are they grown in fall/winter like turnips?
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Beets are a cold season plant, like swiss chard. In fact it is swiss chard, the same species, just some cultivars are specialized for roots and some for leaves. I don't grow beets because my partner will not eat them. I would grow them for the greens except it is redundant because I have lots of chard.

In warm climates I think you would plant beets in Sept for a fall-winter crop or February for a spring crop.
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Same growing season as your turnips. The greens are the best ever and I love the beets as well. I peel, cube and boil them until just tender with a little salt and lots of butter. YUMM>
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Collards are usually grown in the south and can handle more heat. Kale is grown in the north and tastes sweeter after a frost. I live in Hawaii and I do grow both. It is funny my northern friends don't know what collards are and my southern friends don't know what to do with kale. I asked them for recipes and found that they are cooked just about the same way with smoked turkey or pork, spices and beans. Collards have a stronger cabbage taste and Kale can be a little bitter (no frost here) especially if the leaves are older. How do you cook your turnips? I planted purple tops but they tasted bitter like radish, I did not like them much.
I usually plant Asian greens, because that is what I know how to use in stir fries and soup. Daikon, baby bok, choi sum, tat tsoi,Napa cabbage, gai lan. Kin tsai (cutting celery), okame, and Gai choi. In the cooler months I plant them in the sun(Sept-Mar). The rest of the time I plant them under my citrus trees or where they will get afternoon shade, otherwise they bolt. :P
Love your pictures you really have a "greens" thumb.
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imafan26 wrote:How do you cook your turnips? I planted purple tops but they tasted bitter like radish, I did not like them much.
Turnips are my least favorite of these three: ptt turnips, curly mustard and collards. The turnips are most in need of the frost for "maturing". All are cooked in similar fashion, however.

Wash greens.
If Collards or large leaves of others, cut into two inch squares
Pot 1/2 full of water. Salt pepper, and piece of bacon
Add bouilon cube if desired. I do.
Boil until the bacon is cooked a bit to release some of the flavor
Put greens in boiling water, and simmer until tender (20 min maybe)
At end of cooking sprinkle a bit of sugar

Turnip roots.....boil about like potatoes
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digitS'
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ElizabethB wrote: . . . with taso and sauteed onions. I like mustard and turnip greens when young. The do get bitter with age . . .
I had to do a little research to find out what "taso" is! Smoked meat and "usually ham" was what I came up with. Not very complete explanation, I bet :wink: .

The very best thing I can think of for bitterness in mustard & kale is to not allow them to get old! I'm not much of a "harvest after frost" cook. It may be because here frost usually comes after a month of very dry conditions (or, 3 months :roll: ). Zap! Usually lots of damage to the plants . . .
imafan26 wrote:Collards are usually grown in the south and can handle more heat. Kale is grown in the north and tastes sweeter after a frost. I live in Hawaii and I do grow both. It is funny my northern friends don't know what collards are and my southern friends don't know what to do with kale. I asked them for recipes and found that they are cooked just about the same way with smoked turkey or pork, spices and beans. Collards have a stronger cabbage taste and Kale can be a little bitter (no frost here) especially if the leaves are older. How do you cook your turnips? I planted purple tops but they tasted bitter like radish, I did not like them much.
I usually plant Asian greens, because that is what I know how to use in stir fries and soup. Daikon, baby bok, choi sum, tat tsoi,Napa cabbage, gai lan. Kin tsai (cutting celery), okame, and Gai choi. In the cooler months I plant them in the sun(Sept-Mar). The rest of the time I plant them under my citrus trees or where they will get afternoon shade, otherwise they bolt. :P
Love your pictures you really have a "greens" thumb.
That is very well-stated, Imafan! Even with the dry late-season conditions here, ♪ I'm a fan ♫ of Scotch kale & Asian greens, including many that you list :) .

Did you know that bok choy & turnips are in the same family? I have not grown turnips since the '70's. It was, "I don't like these why am I growing them?!" After 20+ years of eating bok choy, I'm wondering what I'm missing . . . Still . . . I gotta try Russian kale before bringing those turnips back. And, baby beets is really where-it's-at regarding greens, uh purples for me!

Steve
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Hi Digits. No, I did not know that turnips and bok choi were related. I thought that choi was related to mustards and turnips to radish. Good to know. That's what I love about this forum. Always an opportunity to learn something new
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digitS' wrote: I had to do a little research to find out what "taso" is! Smoked meat and "usually ham" was what I came up with. Not very complete explanation, I bet :wink: .Steve


Yeah, that explanation of what Taso is is very vague. It is "highly" seasoned pork that is smoked to help dry it out a bit and it is very firm. A little goes a long way in flavoring your food. I use it in gumbos, beans, jambalayas and even a little in an omelette every once in a while.

My favorite local meat is Andouille sausage, also highly seasoned, very coarsely ground pork mixed with small cubes of pork mixed with fresh and dried seasonings then put in casings and fully cooked in the smoking process. It is a dry sausage similar in density to salami's but much chunkier.

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Greens are nutritious

I use nutrient levels to help me decide which greens to eat.
I avoid greens that are high in oxalates since it binds calcium
and can weaken bones.
Plus oxalates are toxic.
It has been known for a long time that poke greens are toxic
unless the cooking water is discarded several times.
Here are the ones I avoid.

Average Oxalate Content
(mg/100 g)

Beet greens 916
Purslane 910
Rhubarb 860
Spinach 750
Chard 660
Poke greens 476

These are the ones I eat:

Dandelion greens 246
Okra 146
Kale 125
Turnip greens 110
Collard greens 74

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I don't know. If you are prone to kidney stones or gout you should avoid them.

But the list of high oxalate foods pretty exactly corresponds with the list of high anti-oxidant, high color, high fiber, low glycemic index foods that most people are saying is what we should be eating.

High oxalate foods:

Fruits: blackberries, blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, currants, kiwifruit, concord (purple) grapes, figs, tangerines, and plums

Vegetables: spinach, Swiss chard, beet greens, collards, okra, parsley, leeks and quinoa are among the most oxalate-dense vegetables
celery, green beans, rutabagas, and summer squash would be considered moderately dense in oxalates

Nuts and seeds: almonds, cashews, and peanuts

Legumes: soybeans, tofu and other soy products

Grains: wheat bran, wheat germ, quinoa (a vegetable often used like a grain)

Other: cocoa, chocolate, and black tea
https://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48

That is pretty much a description of what I eat. If you avoided all those things, it doesn't seem like you would be eating very healthy.

And outside of the disease conditions mentioned, I don't know how much good it would do: from the same article above

"Our bodies always contain oxalates, and our cells routinely convert other substances into oxalates. For example, vitamin C is one of the substances that our cells routinely convert into oxalates."
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Artemesia
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Oxalates in greens

I did not say you should never eat foods with oxalates.
In fact I specifically stated that I do eat foods with oxalates.
The link you provided does not classify okra and collards as high in oxalates compared to beets and spinach.

We have enough sense to cook polk greens and drain the water several times.
We have enough sense to strip the leaves off rhubarb and only eat the stem.
But we do not have enough sense to use caution when eating the other greens that are similarly high in oxalates, such as beet greens, chard, and spinach.

Odd how many times we wait until after we have a disease to think about
the consequences of our diet.
I guess prevention is just a foible of human nature.

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rainbowgardener
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Odd how many times we wait until after we have a disease to think about
the consequences of our diet.
I guess prevention is just a foible of human nature.

Personally I think I eat very healthy, vegetarian, high fiber, low glycemic index, low fat, high anti-oxidant diet, which does seem to be what most of the people in the know are prescribing these days. I am not sitting around eating burgers and fries waiting for something bad to happen. I am following the best wisdom I can find. I'm certainly not going to start avoiding Vitamin C because my body might convert it to oxalates. And I am one of the healthiest 65 year olds I know, with no joint pain or problems, unlike many of my peers.

Sorry, can't continue this discussion, I'm off to go do strength training at the gym. :)
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Artemesia
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Location: zone 5

Anti-nutrient foods

Of the foods you listed, only a very few are actually considered high in oxalates.
Don't get me wrong, by all means let the young and healthy eat all
the delicious foods which are high in anti-nutrients.
The foods with medium levels are just fine even for the elderly.
However, once someone reaches about 40, it becomes a roll of the dice
as to whether their body will tolerate the foods with the HIGHEST levels.
Some can, but some cannot.

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