I shelled some Spring Treat sweet corn this morning. It cross pollinated with Painted Mountain that was located about 60ft away.
[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Double%20Dog%20Farm%20-%20Saving%20seed/PaintedMountainsweetcorn002_zpsd95f2ae5.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Double%20Dog%20Farm%20-%20Saving%20seed/PaintedMountainsweetcorn003_zps405931c0.jpg[/img]
I'm thinking about planting the colored kernels. Painted mountain is open pollinated and Spring treat hybrid. Am I just wasting my time or will I eventually develop a colored sweet corn.
I'm also thinking I contaminated my Painted Mountain harvest.
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Corn will freely cross, so if you grew two varieties close, they no doubt crossed a bit. Corn is the only thing where the pollen the seed is pollinated with affects the taste of this seasons crop. If you have sweet corn next to colored corn and cut the tassels from the colored corn, you will get the sweet gene this season and the colored corn will indeed be sweet. I have no idea what you will get next year. (assuming the two varieties drop pollen at the same time)
How about some colored popcorn?
[img]https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/popcorn.jpg[/img]
How about some colored popcorn?
[img]https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/popcorn.jpg[/img]
- !potatoes!
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nah, I don't think you're wasting your time. you'd have the added bonus that if you took it all the way through, to a stable OP sweet colored corn, you'd have automatically selected for corn that will do well in your garden.
can you visually identify sweet kernels? I know some se+, etc, sweeter corn is more wrinkly as seed, is that something you can sort for visually?
can you visually identify sweet kernels? I know some se+, etc, sweeter corn is more wrinkly as seed, is that something you can sort for visually?
Be prepared to plant and save seed from a couple hundred plants at first. Corn inbreeds very easily unless it's a stable open pollinated crop.
Do you not stagger your corn crops? We grow popcorn, painted mountain and some sweet. Sweet gets planted first. Then painted mountain followed by popcorn. Our season is mid may to first week of November.
Do you not stagger your corn crops? We grow popcorn, painted mountain and some sweet. Sweet gets planted first. Then painted mountain followed by popcorn. Our season is mid may to first week of November.
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No thanks on the popcorn James, but it does look good.
Here is 12lbs of Painted Mountain seed and I may have another 5lbs drying.
[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Double%20Dog%20Farm%20-%20Saving%20seed/PaintedMountaincorn013_zps6273a70c.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Double%20Dog%20Farm%20-%20Saving%20seed/PaintedMountaincorn014_zpsf2d8a2e9.jpg[/img]
!potatoes!
The seed in the canning lid above are different than the rest. They are much harder, have a domed top and are different colors. The rest of the seed in the box are soft and wrinkled.
Reptile,
My antique sheller is great. On Friday my wall mounted antique coffee bean grinder arrived. It made some pretty good corn meal.
Eric
Here is 12lbs of Painted Mountain seed and I may have another 5lbs drying.
[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Double%20Dog%20Farm%20-%20Saving%20seed/PaintedMountaincorn013_zps6273a70c.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Double%20Dog%20Farm%20-%20Saving%20seed/PaintedMountaincorn014_zpsf2d8a2e9.jpg[/img]
!potatoes!
The seed in the canning lid above are different than the rest. They are much harder, have a domed top and are different colors. The rest of the seed in the box are soft and wrinkled.
Reptile,
My antique sheller is great. On Friday my wall mounted antique coffee bean grinder arrived. It made some pretty good corn meal.
Eric
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Soil,
This is basically the first year growing two different corn. I stopped growing sweet corn for many years, because of the space required and lousy harvest. We really struggle to get enough heat units.
I planted Painted Mountain on May 19th and looking at some photos, Spring Treat about the same time. Painted Mountain maturity is 85 days and Spring Treat 66 days. I was hoping the almost 3 week difference would keep them from crossing. Guess again.
I'll plant the crossed seed and see what happens.
Eric
This is basically the first year growing two different corn. I stopped growing sweet corn for many years, because of the space required and lousy harvest. We really struggle to get enough heat units.
I planted Painted Mountain on May 19th and looking at some photos, Spring Treat about the same time. Painted Mountain maturity is 85 days and Spring Treat 66 days. I was hoping the almost 3 week difference would keep them from crossing. Guess again.
I'll plant the crossed seed and see what happens.
Eric
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I've been sorting through my Painted Mountain seed. I can't say for sure if any look like sweet type. None are wrinkled like the picture above.applestar wrote:I don't know, it sounds like you're having fun with your new toys.
It sounds like you spotted the difference. Have you gone back over the Painted Mountain kernels to see if there are any of the sweet corn type?
It'll be interesting to see what happens.
Just for a interesting experiment, I've been pulling the yellow kernels out to plant in a separate block. What should I expect? Will I only get Yellow Mountain corn or is there other color genes in this seed? If I sorted out red kernels and they cross with the yellow, would I get green. I know next to nothing about corn breeding.
Here are some other sorted out colors
Chocolate covered cherries
Black Cherry
This group is mottled or has stripes
Eric
Last edited by DoubleDogFarm on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Very interesting question. You actually induced me to go do a little reading on corn genetics.
I found two different answers. The simple one says purple or red kernals are dominant and yellow is recessive. Thus your yellow painted mountain kernals would have no P or R genes and their progeny would be yellow.
However, some people give a more complex version in which there are two genes involved, one of which inhibits color expression.
"the type of inheritance is Epistasis (when one gene controls the expression of another)"
Here's a place where they work out an epistasis corn e.g.:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 620AA0fM1S
In that case, your yellow corn could have a purple or red gene, but also the inhibitory gene. The inhibitory gene is also dominant, so it only takes one copy. So your corn could be Ii (have a dominant inhibitory gene from one parent and a recessive non-inhibitory gene from the the other).
In that case your yellow corn could pass on a purple or red gene and its I non-inhibitory gene and the next generation could be colored.
And no, I don't think the colors will blend.
BUT I AM NOT A CORN GROWER AND I AM GUESSING. The experiment will be interesting. Keep good notes!
I found two different answers. The simple one says purple or red kernals are dominant and yellow is recessive. Thus your yellow painted mountain kernals would have no P or R genes and their progeny would be yellow.
However, some people give a more complex version in which there are two genes involved, one of which inhibits color expression.
"the type of inheritance is Epistasis (when one gene controls the expression of another)"
Here's a place where they work out an epistasis corn e.g.:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 620AA0fM1S
In that case, your yellow corn could have a purple or red gene, but also the inhibitory gene. The inhibitory gene is also dominant, so it only takes one copy. So your corn could be Ii (have a dominant inhibitory gene from one parent and a recessive non-inhibitory gene from the the other).
In that case your yellow corn could pass on a purple or red gene and its I non-inhibitory gene and the next generation could be colored.
And no, I don't think the colors will blend.
BUT I AM NOT A CORN GROWER AND I AM GUESSING. The experiment will be interesting. Keep good notes!
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Interesting, but a bit more than I am motivated to wade through -- it's not my corn!DoubleDogFarm wrote:Thanks rainbow.
More information.
https://grochbiology.org/CornGeneticsArticle.pdf
Eric
So since you know all that, what is your hypothesis about what will happen?
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I bet you plant the yellow and get colors. The first time I planted dry corn I planted a cob that was all dark red/brown. Solid. Come harvest I got reds, blues, purples, some yellow, and some others.
I would just plant pure painted mountain and select for the ones that taste good when young for sweet corn. And now you can have fresh or let it dry from one corn.
I would just plant pure painted mountain and select for the ones that taste good when young for sweet corn. And now you can have fresh or let it dry from one corn.
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So here we are September 7, 2013.
This Spring I planted yellow and the dark red / black kernels only. Mixed them together and sown. Here are some pictures.
I'm assuming that the red stocks are from the dark seed and the green from the yellows.
This ear is about 2 weeks ahead of the rest.
A couple of observations:
Wood chips had no ill effect on the plant grouth.
Some of the ears are huge
Transplanted thinnings will grow and produce ears. The transplant's stress lasted almost 3 weeks. They recovered, but only grew to half the height of the main crop. Even with the stress, they tassel and silk about the same time as the main crop.
Eric
This Spring I planted yellow and the dark red / black kernels only. Mixed them together and sown. Here are some pictures.
I'm assuming that the red stocks are from the dark seed and the green from the yellows.
This ear is about 2 weeks ahead of the rest.
A couple of observations:
Wood chips had no ill effect on the plant grouth.
Some of the ears are huge
Transplanted thinnings will grow and produce ears. The transplant's stress lasted almost 3 weeks. They recovered, but only grew to half the height of the main crop. Even with the stress, they tassel and silk about the same time as the main crop.
Eric
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Thank you.applestar wrote:Nice! So you'll be harvesting in a couple of weeks?
That one early ear looks all red, but won't there be bi-colors too?
Last year I harvested around the 18th of September. This year maybe a little later do to the cooler weather.
That is the $64,000. dollar question, Apple. Will I have bi-color. I have not peeked in any of the yellow ears, they are tightly wrapped. Time will tell.
Eric
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I harvested 4 ears this afternoon. Sept 20 2013
Take a look at the first picture.
One ear is two-tone. Red bottom and yellow top. The cob is also red.
Next is bi-color white and yellow. Looks like many sweet corn.
The next two are more typical, but have a higher count of yellow.
I boiled and eat 3 of the 4. I wouldn't say any of them are very sweet. The more typical Painted Mountain looking was bland and chewy.
Looks like harvest is maybe another 2 or more weeks out.
Eric
Take a look at the first picture.
One ear is two-tone. Red bottom and yellow top. The cob is also red.
Next is bi-color white and yellow. Looks like many sweet corn.
The next two are more typical, but have a higher count of yellow.
I boiled and eat 3 of the 4. I wouldn't say any of them are very sweet. The more typical Painted Mountain looking was bland and chewy.
Looks like harvest is maybe another 2 or more weeks out.
Eric
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Last two weeks has been rain and wind. A friend on the west side of the Island tallied 3 inches, but I bet it's over that. I took a gamble and harvested. I figured there wouldn't be enough dry days to cure naturally.applestar wrote:NICE! So these will be flour corn? ...or are flour corn harvested dry? I guess you'll be putting them through that gadget you got last year
Do you give some to the ducks or do ducks not eat corn?
Will you sort the colors again?
What are you doing with all the stalks? Chop up and compost? Mulch?
[youtudotbe]https://youtu.be/V4PX8-laIMU[/youtudotbe]
Yes, The ducks, dogs and Eric eat corn. Painted Mountain is classified as a flour corn, but I mostly do a meal grind. Love corn bread. I have also taken the cured kernals and parched. Here's a googled link on parched corn
https://www.utahpreppers.com/2009/10/sur ... ched-corn/
After removing the ear from the stock, I snapped the stock be stepping on them. My first thought was to just leave them on the ground and cover with card board. I do have a shredder maybe I will speed up the process
Eric
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No. The only sorting I will be doing is size of kernel. I'm not sure this is even a good idea. Painted Mountain has over 70 varieties crossbreed. I've decided I better plant the whole spectrum to keep diversity. I'm thinking of buying new seed stock and starting over.Applestar wrote: Will you sort the colors again?
Eric
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