Raised Veggie Garden Layout and Design Critique

[Steuben]

To all you more experienced veggie gardeners out there, I could use some help. I've included a link below to a diagram of my garden plan for this years (2012) garden. I'm hoping to get some advice about the logic of the layout (if there is in fact any logic to it ).

It's a raised bed 10 feet by 12 feet and it was pretty productive last year but I was rather haphazard in my planning last season. I hoped to be more thoughful about it's design this year and have begun putting together the layout (view the link).

I have a couple specific questions but was also looking for guidance as to whether anyone sees any glaring mistakes jumping right out at them.

Last year I had a row of tomatoes back along where the corn is labled for this year. I was hoping to move them to where the peas, kale, spinach, and arugula start this year. My question is whether or not I can do a succession planting with this arrangement? Can I put the young tomato plants within those plants as they mature and have them (kale, etc.) harvested before the tomato plants really get any size to them.

The right side of the bed (onions, etc.) actually doesn't get full sun until probably after noon because of a shade tree...any issues there?

I have pepper seedlings under grow lights right now and was thinking of putting them in the bare spaces in the middle but I didn't have lots of luck with my pepper plants last year in this bed (I've had better success with peppers in containers). Any other ideas for this space

I'm also hoping to put in row of cukes and pole beans at some point but am at a loss as to where they might go. Do I have to give up something else? Maybe so.

BTW, the garlic is already in there. I planted last fall and its up already...kind of screws up the "north-south" row logic but oh-well...too late now.

I could go on and on but this post is already lengthy enough so I'll wait to see if anyone can get my thought processes going in a different direction.

Thanks in advance to all .

Cheers

Here then is the link to the plan:

[url]https://www.growveg.com/garden-plan.aspx?p=249339[/url]

[rainbowgardener]

Wow!! What a pretty garden diagram you made!

Here's a few thoughts, looking at it: One row of 7 corn plants stretched out in single row, tends not to grow real well. The corn has to pollinate itself and each kernal of corn has to be separately pollinated with its own grain of pollen. So they grow best in a block, so there can be pollen flying around. You want minimum a 4x4' block with at least 12 corn plants in it. I would put the shallots along an edge somewhere and put a block of corn in the middle.

You kind of have the early finishing stuff scattered around. To do the succession planting thing, it helps to have them more together, so a block or row of ground gets freed up for replanting. Early finishing stuff is the peas, lettuce, spinach, broccoli, and to a lesser extent cabbage. It works well for me to plant a row of tomatoes right behind the broccoli. By the time the tomato plants are getting big and need more room, the broccoli is done and can be pulled. But the same kind of thing works with the peas, spinach etc. As the weather warms up, the spinach benefits from the shade of the tomatoes and will last a little longer before bolting. It looks like you are giving the broccoli and cabbage more space than they need. You could easily plant one maybe two more of each in the designated space.

If you plant the corn in the middle, you could put a couple cucumber plants in the space where they were - grow a bush variety or let the regular vining type trail out into whatever surrounds the outside of the bed. Or put a trellis there and let it climb.

Unlike beans which keep producing for a pretty long time or spinach etc which you can keep picking, the peas tend to make one crop and be done. So a 6' row of peas doesn't turn out to be very many. They need trellis or something to climb (can be just some sticks in the ground, with horizontal strings strung across them). Plant a row of peas on each side of the trellis. And then think about succession planting them - two weeks later plant another double row in another spot - make your pea harvest last a bit longer.

[Steuben]

Wow!! What a pretty garden diagram you made!

Here's a few thoughts, looking at it: One row of 7 corn plants stretched out in single row, tends not to grow real well. The corn has to pollinate itself and each kernal of corn has to be separately pollinated with its own grain of pollen. So they grow best in a block, so there can be pollen flying around. You want minimum a 4x4' block with at least 12 corn plants in it. I would put the shallots along an edge somewhere and put a block of corn in the middle.

You kind of have the early finishing stuff scattered around. To do the succession planting thing, it helps to have them more together, so a block or row of ground gets freed up for replanting. Early finishing stuff is the peas, lettuce, spinach, broccoli, and to a lesser extent cabbage. It works well for me to plant a row of tomatoes right behind the broccoli. By the time the tomato plants are getting big and need more room, the broccoli is done and can be pulled. But the same kind of thing works with the peas, spinach etc. As the weather warms up, the spinach benefits from the shade of the tomatoes and will last a little longer before bolting. It looks like you are giving the broccoli and cabbage more space than they need. You could easily plant one maybe two more of each in the designated space.

If you plant the corn in the middle, you could put a couple cucumber plants in the space where they were - grow a bush variety or let the regular vining type trail out into whatever surrounds the outside of the bed. Or put a trellis there and let it climb.

Unlike beans which keep producing for a pretty long time or spinach etc which you can keep picking, the peas tend to make one crop and be done. So a 6' row of peas doesn't turn out to be very many. They need trellis or something to climb (can be just some sticks in the ground, with horizontal strings strung across them). Plant a row of peas on each side of the trellis. And then think about succession planting them - two weeks later plant another double row in another spot - make your pea harvest last a bit longer.

Wow to you too rainbowgardener...above and beyond. This is exactly the kind of help I knew I'd get...invaluable. Many thanks.

I'm debating even trying the corn, as it might be a bigger commitment spacewise than I want to commit to, especially with the insight you've provided. I mainly wanted to try it this year to see if I could learn something about it but maybe I'll wait till I can devote more space to it...probably the wise thing to do. My other concern with corn in the middle is the shade it would cause on the northern side of the bed. Not sure what to think about that.

The shallots were placed as sort of an afterthought. I may replace some of the leeks or onions with shallots instead. Gotta have em though...love shallots.

Regarding the cabbage and broccoli spacing, this was actually a function of the program is used to generate the garden diagram. They (the program) recommended that much space. Plus I remember from last year that my cabbage plants were huge and ate up lots of real estate. But I'll take your advice and plant them closer together. Same with broccoli although this is my first year for that veggie.

Regarding the quantity of peas produced, I'm gardening for one so am not looking for a huge crop. I did trellis them last year and produced a decent amount but I like the idea of succession planting with them so I can get a more spread out harvest. Thanks

I'm also planning on training the tomato plants up an "above strung" wire and perhaps some sort of trellis on either side or a cage. Last year they got so big I could hardly handle them so learned that lesson the hard way...nice big plants but so bulky I ended up trying to keep them in line by binding them with trellis netting. Not the best method but I'm learning.

[jal_ut]

You can plant radish, arugula and spinach where you will grow corn. These things are early crops and when it is time to plant corn you will have your harvest, or almost. Just plant the corn in same area.

I would put the squash in the corner where the arugula is. These things get big. They may smother your garlic.

You can plant peas now and they will be done about June 5. Then follow the peas with bush beans. Another thing that is sometimes done is to wait until the corn is 8 inches tall then plant pole beans near the corn plants. The beans will climb the corn.

You can put broccoli plants 8 to ten inches apart in a row.

Cabbage will do OK if you give it an18 inch square spot.

[Steuben]

Thanks for the great advice jal_ut. Curious that you didn't seem to have the same concerns as rainbowgardener regarding the lone row of corn in the back. I'll give both approaches some thought (probably need to do a bit more research on corn).

Good advice on the squash. I remember from last year how they sprawled all over the place (thus only one each of squash and zucchini...probably more than I can eat anyway).

I'll probably stick more with the pole beans mainly for real-estate/yield issues but will plant some french filet bush beans just cause I love them. Will follow your advice there.

[tremuloides]

Steuben,

Great Plan!!!!

Did you like using the Grow Veg software to help you decide how to plant your veggies or did you have a general idea on what and where you wanted things?

We are very excited here (just south of you on Monument Hill) about our first gardening and to be honest....we are a bit confused on just what to grow and where to place things.

Cheers

[SLC]

Wow, I am so glad I checked out this posting - I am also fairly new to gardening, and that website is AWESOME!!! I'm going to use it right now to plan out my garden!

Sorry I am not a help with the placement, etc. though, as I too am learning.

[dustyrivergardens]

your doing very good.

[jal_ut]

Thanks for the great advice jal_ut. Curious that you didn't seem to have the same concerns as rainbowgardener regarding the lone row of corn in the back.

Rainbow brings up a valid point on the lone row of corn. Sometimes lone rows do not pollinate well. You could move the cabbage and cauli over a bit and put two rows of corn spaced 12 inches. That would work much better for the pollination.

Another thing that can be done is rather than rows for small stuff is a bed (wide row). Just put a seed every 2 inches on a grid pattern both ways. This is very good for radishes, carrots, spinach. some gardeners just toss out some seed and rake it in. Problem with that, is you end up doing too much thinning. I feel it is better to take the time to place the seed to start with. Peas can be planted in a bed like that too. I would go with about a 3 inch spacing both ways for peas.

What rainbow suggested with the corn is a wide row or bed for corn. Good spacing is 12 inches both ways. It puts the plants close enough for good pollination, yet with the rather small block doesn't starve any plants for root and sun space. You would not want to plant a large area that close.

[RogueRose]

I know NOTHING about raised beds, etc. But I do want to chime in that you can grow corn along the fence and in a row. I planted mine in a little trough area where there's space between fence and concrete patio (about 3-4") - space utilization! I have peas here this year. Anyway, I put corn there last year and it grew quite well. At first I assisted in pollination but then I grew lazy and it actually pollinated itself pretty well.

Here it is coming up (boot for size comparison)
[img]https://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/49239/2991124810062041520S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]

Bigger (we did get a crazy storm and all the corn fell over, but I rigged it back up and it was fine):
[img]https://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/28412/2743388760062041520S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]

This is some of the fence corn just about ready to pick:
[img]https://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/49963/2965526420062041520S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]

Some of the crop:
[img]https://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/51068/2189712560062041520S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]

I think corn is my favorite thing to grow! Though everything is so much fun! I have some fun corn for this year. I might plant some where the peas are and do the fence corn again. I also got a larger area to plant some too.

[jal_ut]

[img]https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/Image-01.JPG[/img]

Someone asked for an idea for a 20 x 25 foot bed. This is what I came up with. It may or may not have some ideas you can use.

[Steuben]

Steuben,

Great Plan!!!!

Did you like using the Grow Veg software to help you decide how to plant your veggies or did you have a general idea on what and where you wanted things?

We are very excited here (just south of you on Monument Hill) about our first gardening and to be honest....we are a bit confused on just what to grow and where to place things.

Cheers

Greetings neighbor, and sorry for the tardy reply. I've been busy and haven't been checking back here like I ought.

RE: Grow Veg software. I think I need to spend a bit more time with it before I can determine it's usefulness (It was valuable in this thread...I think). At this point I'm thinking it's more of a toy and a bit gimmicky but I may find a good use for it. It does give some good basic info about plant spacing for whatever space one has, but I'm not exactly sure how precise things are. Some good BASIC information on plants wihin but as I'm learning, nothing beats study, experience, note-keeping (copious amounts is better), and reading posts in a place like this. The experienced ones on a forum like this are some of the best resources one could probably hope for...cuz they're not selling anything!!!! And they obviously love to share the knowledge they've gathered over the years...and do it willingly. We know who they are, and I hope they do as well. Kuddos to them and their ilk.

I'm pretty much a beginner too so far be it from me to give you any advice on what to put where, however, since this is your first year, don't bite off more than you can chew I almost did that last year but stopped myself in time, and was more successful because of it. Enjoy the learning process and then add to it next year. Grow some easier stuff so you don't get frustrated right off the bat. The process ought to be enjoyable.

Toodles,

Steuben

[Steuben]

your doing very good.

Thanks for the encouragement...I think you were talking to me...or not?!?!?

Checked out your blog as well...very nice. Made a marinara sauce yesterday out of some San Marzanos I grew and canned last year. The upper right corner photo reminded me of them. Looking forward to another round this year.

Cheers.

[Steuben]

At first I assisted in pollination

Might I ask a newbie question here?......

.....how does one actually assist in pollinating corn?

Thanks