I opened the pit today. The frost had finally got out of the ground. I got some potatoes and carrots out and left some in for later when it is time to plant. I don't suppose I will plant potatoes for a month. I did take a couple of carrots and go plant them to go for seed this year. I noticed my garlic is just starting to show itself.
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Yellowsnow
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jal_ut
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Yes, just a pit deep enough to be below frost line. I only had carrots and potatoes in this one. Sometimes I will put beets and cabbage in. I wrap the cabbage in news paper. It can't be accessed mid-winter if the ground freezes, but it will keep the veggies for early spring use. The carrots and potatoes will keep better if you put in a layer then cover with sand, then more veggies etc. It keeps the air from them and they won't mold. Sand is much easier to remove them from than my sticky black soil. It also fills the voids better.
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gixxerific
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That is awesome. How do you know how deep the frost line is? Last year we took all our potatoes inside and eventually had to be eating a lot of potatoes before they went bad. So now you will just take them in and they will keep like normal?jal_ut wrote:Yes, just a pit deep enough to be below frost line. I only had carrots and potatoes in this one. Sometimes I will put beets and cabbage in. I wrap the cabbage in news paper. It can't be accessed mid-winter if the ground freezes, but it will keep the veggies for early spring use. The carrots and potatoes will keep better if you put in a layer then cover with sand, then more veggies etc. It keeps the air from them and they won't mold. Sand is much easier to remove them from than my sticky black soil. It also fills the voids better.
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jal_ut
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You don't! It will vary from year to year depending on what the weather does. If you get an early snowfall and it sticks, and more snow is added later before it gets sub zero, the snow acts as an insulator and the ground may not even freeze. This year we didn't have much snow cover and the ground froze about ten inches deep. We never had any sub zero weather or it would have frozen deeper. I like to have about a foot of cover over the top of the veggies, and then cover the area with some leaves for insulation. I have never had a pit like this freeze, so I guess that is good enough.How do you know how deep the frost line is?
Yes, I took in about 60 pounds of potatoes. They will keep for a while as we use them. There is still some in the pit for planting and eating later. As the soil warms up they will want to sprout and grow. Just the way taters are.
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gixxerific
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36" is overkill in my opinion. Espeacially for produce. That is more for heaving of foundations, peirs, water lines etc. in extreme conditions. That is the recomended depth for me in MO. It NEVER freezes that deep here, ever. Really it is overkill. Look at Jal and where he lives. It is normally very cold there much more so than here and for much longer. Yet he does great with roughly a third that distance.SOB wrote:You can check with the area water company. When running certain things outside under ground, like water lines, they need to be a certain distance under the "normal" frost line. I think around here (central ohio) it's about 36".dtlove129 wrote:How do you know how deep the frost line is?
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jal_ut
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Utility water supplies are usually put down 36 inches here. The reason being that where the snow is removed on roadways and sidewalks, there is no insulating snow and the frost has been known to go down that deep when we get one of those prolonged below zero cold snaps. Frozen water lines are no fun. Nor are heaved foundations. The minimum here for foundations is 30 inches.
The garden pit though is insulated with some leaves and then snow, if we get any, which usually we do. I usually have about a foot of soil over the veggies and they do fine.
At a place I lived many moons back, I built a 12 x 10 foot root cellar using cinder blocks for the walls and put a reinforced concrete slab over top. Then built a wooden shed on top of that. It had a stairs going down into the cellar. Now that was a nice cellar. It was even a good cool spot for summer produce for short storage. I ended up insulating the underside of the cement slab and the walls down to 3 feet below grade to prevent it from freezing in winter. Too expensive really, but at the time I was building and had some spare parts now and then.
Another place I had a backhoe dig a pit 4 feet wide and 8 feet long, about six feet deep. (Grave size.) I had some heavy steel pipes about 8 feet long that I laid across the pit the 4 foot way, then I put corrugated roofing on the pipes and left a opening to get into it, and built a box out of 2x10 around the access, then got a load of sawdust and covered it with near a foot of sawdust. I just used a piece of plywood for a lid. Now that pit never froze. The sawdust insulated it well enough. We used a ladder to get down, and lowered potatoes with a bucket and rope.
An interesting thing happened with that pit. We had some sheep and one day the wife kept hearing this plaintive bleating that somehow seemed muffled. When she investigated she found that one of our biggest sheep had fallen into the pit. It was a big ol fat wether. Now let me till you it was a job to get that critter out of the pit. We got the kids and tied a rope around his neck and the kids pulled and I pushed and we finally got him out.
Tired of pit stories?
The garden pit though is insulated with some leaves and then snow, if we get any, which usually we do. I usually have about a foot of soil over the veggies and they do fine.
At a place I lived many moons back, I built a 12 x 10 foot root cellar using cinder blocks for the walls and put a reinforced concrete slab over top. Then built a wooden shed on top of that. It had a stairs going down into the cellar. Now that was a nice cellar. It was even a good cool spot for summer produce for short storage. I ended up insulating the underside of the cement slab and the walls down to 3 feet below grade to prevent it from freezing in winter. Too expensive really, but at the time I was building and had some spare parts now and then.
Another place I had a backhoe dig a pit 4 feet wide and 8 feet long, about six feet deep. (Grave size.) I had some heavy steel pipes about 8 feet long that I laid across the pit the 4 foot way, then I put corrugated roofing on the pipes and left a opening to get into it, and built a box out of 2x10 around the access, then got a load of sawdust and covered it with near a foot of sawdust. I just used a piece of plywood for a lid. Now that pit never froze. The sawdust insulated it well enough. We used a ladder to get down, and lowered potatoes with a bucket and rope.
An interesting thing happened with that pit. We had some sheep and one day the wife kept hearing this plaintive bleating that somehow seemed muffled. When she investigated she found that one of our biggest sheep had fallen into the pit. It was a big ol fat wether. Now let me till you it was a job to get that critter out of the pit. We got the kids and tied a rope around his neck and the kids pulled and I pushed and we finally got him out.
Tired of pit stories?
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applestar
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I love the pit stories! 
It's rather interesting to compare the expensive pit/root cellar you built with all the materials you had vs. the current dig and bury and cover with leaves -- mark with a few sticks -- one.... But I suppose you stored significantly more back then?
(...I'm also thinking you said somewhere else once before that sheep are dumb... Maybe you had this silly sheep in mind.
)
Any more? How about pros and cons of the different pits in addition to the obvious ones?
It's rather interesting to compare the expensive pit/root cellar you built with all the materials you had vs. the current dig and bury and cover with leaves -- mark with a few sticks -- one.... But I suppose you stored significantly more back then?
(...I'm also thinking you said somewhere else once before that sheep are dumb... Maybe you had this silly sheep in mind.
)Any more? How about pros and cons of the different pits in addition to the obvious ones?
My produce pit was covered with soil and then one of those large tubs filled with pine needles, turned upside down. I will caution again about building too wonderful of a winter home for mice - altho' that has happened only once for me . . . & them 
. I wait to dig & insulate the pit until I'm fairly sure the mice have already put together their own winter nests and gone to ground.
Once again, I didn't try the potatoes in the pit, James. I don't know why but it is probably because I began harvesting the "earlies" at the beginning of August and continuing. I worked hard trying to keep them cool at that time of the year. They were moved into the basement room where the dahlias end up later and do very well. After it cooled but before the cold would have froze them in the garage, they were moved out of the basement in the fall to the cooler garage. Then . . . back . . . down . . . to the basement to spend the winter
.
They have lasted better than previous winters, just had some nice mashed potatoes and the leftovers turned into potato cakes. It was important that storage worked well because I harvested right at 200# and with only 2 people . . . now, I'm wondering if I shouldn't have just carried them up from the basement in the fall and buried them in the pit with the carrots!
Access is fairly easy - there are still carrots out there (& celery root). Washing things is a little awkward since the outdoor water is turned off but we fill the crisper drawer each time I open the pit. It is a wonderful way to have nice crisp carrots/parsnips/celeriac - right thru the winter. I can at least testify to that. Now, to contemplate potatoes/beets/turnips/rutab . . .
Steve
. I wait to dig & insulate the pit until I'm fairly sure the mice have already put together their own winter nests and gone to ground.Once again, I didn't try the potatoes in the pit, James. I don't know why but it is probably because I began harvesting the "earlies" at the beginning of August and continuing. I worked hard trying to keep them cool at that time of the year. They were moved into the basement room where the dahlias end up later and do very well. After it cooled but before the cold would have froze them in the garage, they were moved out of the basement in the fall to the cooler garage. Then . . . back . . . down . . . to the basement to spend the winter
.They have lasted better than previous winters, just had some nice mashed potatoes and the leftovers turned into potato cakes. It was important that storage worked well because I harvested right at 200# and with only 2 people . . . now, I'm wondering if I shouldn't have just carried them up from the basement in the fall and buried them in the pit with the carrots!
Access is fairly easy - there are still carrots out there (& celery root). Washing things is a little awkward since the outdoor water is turned off but we fill the crisper drawer each time I open the pit. It is a wonderful way to have nice crisp carrots/parsnips/celeriac - right thru the winter. I can at least testify to that. Now, to contemplate potatoes/beets/turnips/rutab . . .
Steve