dilemma over raised bed construction

[lily51]

These invasive and tough grasses are a challenge, defying most attempts to irradicate them from gardens. And digging just spreads them.
Many will not like this, but the only thing that has ever worked in a raised bed here is to sprayto kill it, then cover with your cardboard, mulch, soil. Make sure your beds are deep enough, at least 10".

Maybe a raised bed that is waist high would work to smother the plants with just cardboard and soil.

Picture the great prairies, with grasses that can go dormant and then spring to life, and then the eastern U.S. prairies with their 6' tall grasses. These plants are resiliant!

[john gault]

I've yet to spray the stuff and I got it pretty well under control in my non-raisedbed garden. I'm 100% confident I would have no problems in a raised bed, especially if I can keep them at bay in a conventional garden.

However, I will concede that spraying would be the most effective way, I.e. non-physical labor way. However, I only tilled once (in the very beginning), which is the hardest part, but if I had to do it all again I wouldn't even do that, now that I know their number one weakness -- shade.

Granted without spraying my job will never be done, but it's very manageable. But I'm willing to bet that the person that sprays will also be amply employed in fighting bermuda grass. I just don't want to use that much spray. And there is a certain satisfaction I get by pulling the stuff out by the roots It's actually pretty easy when the mulch is thick. However, on bare ground where the stuff is established I'm fully aware of how deep and entrenched them roots can be.

BTW, When one fights bermuda grass one must wonder if this is the ultimate life form on earth.

[cynthia_h]

... And there is a certain satisfaction I get by pulling the stuff out by the roots ... However, on bare ground where the stuff is established I'm fully aware of how deep and entrenched them roots can be.

BTW, When one fights bermuda grass one must wonder if this is the ultimate life form on earth.

1) When I eliminated the Bermuda grass from our "lawn" in Berkeley, I first uprooted as much as I could. Very satisfying, I agree! Then I started the dig-and-sift process. Believe me: those roots were "deep and entrenched." I remember one in particular that was over 6 feet long.

2) Ultimate form of life on earth I think must be either cockroaches or sharks; opinions are divided. But both are ancient, from pre-Cretaceous times (I think?), whereas most mammals date from the post-Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary mammalian radiation, so we're pretty new on the block.

--Having lived in old buildings where roaches also live, I'd rather deal with Bermuda grass; at least it doesn't contaminate my food supply.

--Sharks...well, I've swum in the San Francisco Bay (warmest temps are in August, approx. 56* F, or 14* C), where it's too cold for most shark species. I only bumped into a shark once. I think we were both incredibly startled. When I got back to shore, other swimmers said it was probably a young [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_shark]leopard shark[/url], harmless to people--except for sudden accelerations in heart rate and swimming speed!

Cynthia

[Gary350]

Bermuda grass is hard to kill the easiest way for me to kill it is till the soil every day during the month of July and August it keeps the roots from taking hold they dry out and die. All that tilling makes the soil dry out and brings the roots to the top. At the same time I pick up all the pieces I see and burn them. Problem is the bermuda grass creeps back into the garden from my yard.

Another way to kill it is cover the soil with black plastic all summer. The solar cooker will kill everything dead. It also stays dry because rain can not get in.

Another way to kill it is a large bonfire. Collect all the wood and brush you can find pile it 6 ft deep in your garden and set it on fire and keep it buring for several hours. It will cook it to death.

I tried Roundup but all that does is kill the tops not the roots.

A very heavy dose of SALT will kill it. Cover your whole area to be killed with about 3" of salt and till it in. It has to rain about 10 very hard rains for all that salt to go away bermuda grass will be dead so will everything else. 50 lb bags of rock salt are cheap.

I have a 100 ft long cement driveway I hauled garden soil and dumped it on the driveway this summer in July. No rain in the forcast for weeks so the dirt dried out as dry as the desert. We drove vehicles on it for 2 weeks. That grass is very slow to die I raked through the dry soil and found pieces that were still alive a week later. Then I had to shovel it all back to the garden.

[SoCalVeggieGardener]

Getting back to the original idea of the weed fabric under the raised bed, I would advise against it. The bermuda will find a way through...trust me. In the past I have had kikuyu grass grow through a 2.5' layer of soil in a raised bed. I wasn't too happy about that. Also, the fabric will restrict beneficial organisms, such as earthworms, from getting into your soil.

However, something I haven't seen mentioned yet is use of chicken wire on the bottom of your raised bed. This will help deter pests such as gophers, yet still let all the beneficial organisms in. I'm not sure if gophers are a problem in your area, but if they are I would definitely recommend the chicken wire.

Hope this helps!

[dustyrivergardens]

Man I am sorry I have a Bermuda issue also I have been fighting it for 25 years. Fight the good fight man it is hard to keep it at bay.

[tedln]

I put down cardboard in my deep beds and it did prevent bermuda grass from growing up through the deep soil. It also spreads by seed so I pull three or four tiny grass sprouts every time I visit the garden. It takes about ten seconds to accomplish and keeps the grass under control.

Ted

[seedsowing]

Yep - that's my plan - yank or dig out the grass that does manage to get in the beds. I just want to get my hands dirty. We order the lumber for the raised bed. It should be here next week. Hubby and I will be busy building and filling with dirt. I can start putting out seeds at the end of January. Can't wait.

[tedln]

Yep - that's my plan - yank or dig out the grass that does manage to get in the beds. I just want to get my hands dirty. We order the lumber for the raised bed. It should be here next week. Hubby and I will be busy building and filling with dirt. I can start putting out seeds at the end of January. Can't wait.

Seedsowing,

What kind of seeds will you be planting in January? We grew up and raised our kids in Amarillo so I know what gardening is like in the panhandle. January was normally the month I checked the woodpile to see if we had enough to feed the fireplace for the remainder of the winter. I can't remember ever getting my hands dirty in the garden in January.

Now we live about 60 miles north of Dallas and the only thing I can plant in January are my onion seedlings. Everything else waits until early March.

Ted

[seedsowing]

Oh since this is my first year of gardening, maybe I am being optomistic about planting seeds in January. Maybe I should be thinking of planting seeds indoors and transplanting at the end of February or early March. In Colorado, from which I came, I could put anthing in the ground until Mother's Day. And even then it ws if-y.

I am just so excited to have a longer growing season and be able to plant three crops - spring, summer and fall.

[Tilde]

Your last frost date is around apr 15; can do a lot of indoor starts before then ...

[tedln]

Starts indoors will work. You will probably get a few frosts until mid April. Some things do well in the cooler weather like lettuce and radishes and a few other things. Plants like tomatoes can easily be killed by a late frost. Plants like cucumbers and squash you can start inside and plant outside after the last frost. I plant some seed outside knowing they won't germinate until the soil temp. is right and that probably won't be until after the last frost.

If you do plan on starting a few plants indoors, you will need sufficient indoor lighting or a window with good southern exposure.


Ted

[seedsowing]

Excellent advice. I just pray that we will have more rain next year. It was so dry & hot. Everyone told me that was unusual. We'll see.

Of all the seeds I planted this year, my only harvest was one kolhrobi. I savored it. The flower seeds that I saved from my Colorado garden came up - mostly zinnia, marigolds, and cosmos.

I've started a spreadsheet for companion gardening -- it includes when to plant, good & bad neighbors, and when to expect to harvest (I have other colums too). Still working on it. I started a website all about my Lubbock gardening adventures.

Thanks again

Jan