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Fig3825
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Ants...lots of ants.

Can anyone tell me whether or not I need to worry about ants all over my vegetable plants? They are on the squash, the lima beans and the watermelon. They appear MUCH less frequently on other veggies and seem to be focused on the plants in one bed in particular. They don't really seem to be doing anything aside from multiplying. They are not thick and not completely sparse. I'd say on a 5' watermelon vine, I'd find maybe 20. There are maybe 40 of them at various locations on my squash plants (40-50 or so on each). The concentration I'm talking about equates to 3-5 ants on a dessert plate sized leaf.

They don't seem to be eating anything, rather, they are just crawling around the plants. I've seen no damage at all that I think is ant related. I've seen the small fire ants and I've seen some medium red ants as well. I'm actually wondering if they are killing all the insects off my plants because I haven't seen a lot of them this year after my snafu early on. Most importantly, and something I've been looking for, is that I don't have aphids. Not a single one. And I've looked for them. Early on I figured I'd be fighting aphids once the ants settled in, but that doesn't seem to be the case either.

Another concern is that they might be burying down into the raised bed and will eventually start chowing on the roots, but I don't know if it is normal ant behavior to do this. I could always get some diatomaceous earth and spread it around under the plants, but I'm not sure it's necessary except for the fact that I simply hate ants. That are they up to? Do they help pollinate flowers? Are they really evil or should I just let them be and keep an eye on them?

Anyone have an opinion on this?

john gault
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I have them all over the place, yet to be a problem. I've never seen them destroying any vegetable; they seem to stick to the flowers and hunting.

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Fig3825
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Maybe in my case they could be considered 'beneficial' if they are chomping on all the pests that enter their domain... And since the butternuts seem to bloom one flower at a time, maybe they'll help pollinate the females if they are running around all over the place... :D

ThomasCA
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Ants in a vegetable bed aren't usually a good sign. They, specifically, don't do any damage to plants, but they will farm the aphids, to harvest their sweet 'dew'...this will cause the plant damage.

More than likely you'll begin to notice a large aphid problem in your beds as well. Start checking unerneath your leaves. You may find a lot more ants or a lot of aphids. A nice stream of water usually knocks them off.

Urban_Garden
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I've had issues with ants farming aphids on my Nasturtiums and Cosmos, but that's it. The only other time I see them is when they are all around my Asparagus bean buds, but they don't cause them any harm.

john gault
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I've seen the ants farming aphids as well, but really haven't seen too much of an adverse effect on my garden. I especially see them faming on the sunflowers, but yet to see much of a problem.

garden5
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It sounds like as long as they're not farming the aphids, you should be fine. Like you said, they may help with pollination.

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Fig3825
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Yeah, I hear ya all.

I've been keeping a watchful eye out for the aphids, but I've still yet to see any. I posted earlier in the season that I had an aphid problem on my snow peas which was the first veggie to sprout this year and I created a terribly strong garlic, pepper and soap spray and subsequently killed everything in my garden with it - including all my plants. So I've replanted everything and it's all coming back now. Cucumbers, watermelon, lima beans, squash and tomatoes are all blooming at the moment. Already harvested some radish and mesclun/rocket salad.

I've only seen a few pests thus far (since replanting everything) including corn root worm (adult/beetle - not the actual worm), cucumber beetle, white fly, grasshopper, flea beetles and leaf miners. Probably the most damage has been from the leaf miners and flea beetles. Shotgun type holes in some of the leaves and I see the telltale tracks of the leaf miners here and there. However, the number of pests I've seen has been VERY minimal and I crush them or flick them into the fiery depths when I see them.

The flea beetles seem to be on the corn, but I think the corn is too tough for them as there have been no holes in those leaves. They did a number on my broccoli, but didn't kill it before I found them. I've only seen 3 or 4 of the corn root worm adults, and they were quickly dispatched. Maybe a couple grasshoppers...honestly, it hasn't been bad.

The raised beds were built and filled with soil this year from the nursery, so I can only assume the soil was relatively clean having not had plants it it before lowering the odds of bugs breeding in it.

I've been lucky thus far. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the aphids because that is exactly what I figured might soon happen after the ants came - but it hasn't happened yet and I'll be harvesting much more in the coming weeks, I assume.

I got up very early this morning to water since I've been working late a lot this week and I saw one thing that made me very excited. I had bees all up in my squash and they were visiting the cucumbers as well. I guess they come early and late since it's been 90+ here for a while. I haven't seen them in the afternoons when I get home, so it had me a bit worried.

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Francis Barnswallow
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I've had issues with ants farming aphids as well. Not sure if they're damaging the plants though. :?

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jal_ut
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[url=https://doubledanger.com/living-green/10-tips-for-organic-ant-control]Check this out![/url]

Ants can sometimes be a problem to plants. I have had them farming aphids on small trees. I found that masking tape wrapped around the tree trunk with the sticky side facing away from the tree will keep them off the tree. They won't cross the sticky stuff.

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Fig3825
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Great article! Thanks Jal!

While masking tape would not work for me (since the ants are on my watermelon and squash, both of which have vines sprawling all over the place making it impossible to keep ants due to the number of times each of those plants actually touches the ground) there are several on there that are simple and I can start on tonight.

I'm so going to go on an organic ant killing rampage. :twisted:


Did anyone notice the Terminix add at the bottom of the page that has ants crawling all over the bagel? I wonder if this is suggestive marketing... :wink:

cynthia_h
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No, the ads just come up in rotation.

I use a soap spray on ants when I see them, whether on plants or in my kitchen. :x

When do ants come into my kitchen? If it's rainy for several days, they come in for a nice, dry location. If it's too hot (not often), they come in for relief. If it's too cold, they want a warm place. If it's too dry outside (like now), they come in looking for water. You would think, wouldn't you, that my watering outdoors would make them happy on the "water" part of their menu? But no; I'll still have ants and ant scouts in the kitchen.... :roll:

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

john gault
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You always hear how insects develop an immunity towards chemical insecticides, but can't they develop an immunity to some of these so called orgainic insecticides?

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Fig3825
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I doubt they would develop an immunity to maple syrup or cream of wheat. :D

cynthia_h
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Soap spray works via a physical/mechanical action. Immunity cannot be developed in such cases; it's like expecting the human body to develop an immunity to being splashed with acid and *not* blister/burn/hurt/other awful consequences.

It's a physical reaction, not an immunological one.

Cynthia

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Fig3825
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I sprayed two days ago with some organic insecticidal soap spray I bought in the organic section of the local nursery. Due to early season mishaps, I was light in my application because I wanted to see how it affected the plants. As of late yesterday, the ants were still there.

I even found a weed in another bush outside of the garden with ants on it and I completed drenched the ants with it. They seemed to be thankful for the cooling shower. Not terribly sure if it worked all that well... :?

I'm going to try either the baking soda or one of the other 'recipes', from the link that Jal posted above, that attracts them and subsequently kills them, without having to apply anything to the plants and see how that works. Due to my early season mishaps, I'd rather try something indirect first since the ants don't appear to be harvesting aphids anywhere. I did a good check yesterday and couldn't find any aphids.

Maybe if I can get out of work before the sun is setting someday soon, I'll snap some pictures....

john gault
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cynthia_h wrote:Soap spray works via a physical/mechanical action. Immunity cannot be developed in such cases; it's like expecting the human body to develop an immunity to being splashed with acid and *not* blister/burn/hurt/other awful consequences.

It's a physical reaction, not an immunological one.

Cynthia
I hear you. However, I was also wondering if they can not only develop an immunity, but also develop a way to "deal with it", seeing how some insects are very adaptable. Although I got to admit I don't really know what I'm talking about :oops: since I don't really know any of the organic measures and how they affect the insect, since so far I've not really had any problems with insects -- hence no practical experience. But your point is taken, it'd be like a roach becoming immune to a foot stomping on it -- but if they survive it, I bet they are a little quicker to get out of the way :lol: .

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jal_ut
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As of late yesterday, the ants were still there.
Soap spray only works on the insects you get it on directly. Once the spray has dried it has no effect on any insects. The problem with ants is that the colony has many thousands of ants in it. So you kill some with your spray application, you have not even put a dent in their population. You need to go after the colony and use something that will get more of their numbers. Something that they will take into the colony and kill many if not all. Try some of the things in that link.

In my garden there are a number of ant colonies. They are small ants and don't seem to bother much except the gardener. They will kill a plant that has its roots right in their bed. I haven't had any problems with aphids yet this season. Some years the aphids get bad, but they seem to be more of a problem on the trees. Sometimes the aphids get after the cole crops. The little ants that are in my garden don't seem to tend aphids, the ones that tend aphids on my trees are larger ants.



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