I read an article on yahoo today about an ecoli outbreak in Germany on their veggies and lots of people getting sick and dieing. now I'm freaking out (I've been getting paranoid over everything lately) I am scared to death that my veggies might get ecoli, I hope I'm just being irrational. can the ecoli get into the veggies and get somebody sick if eaten raw or is it only getting on the outside and just needs to be washed???
I have a dog in the front yard (where most of my garden is) and she likes to poo all over the place, I clean it up but do I need to be worried. What can I do to keep from having the poor doggy tied up all the time???
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annastasia76
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rainbowgardener
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Relax! Maybe take a meditation course or something to help with the freaking out/ paranoia problem.
E coli is everywhere including in our own digestive tracts and doesn't usually make us sick. I don't know about the current outbreak in germany, but when we have had outbreaks here in the US, it is usually traced to crops that have been sprayed with manure as a fertilizing process. E. coli lives in the guts of ruminants (as well as people!) and can be passed on through their manure. The E coli is only on the outside and can be washed off.
So don't use fresh manure in your garden at all (be sure it is well composted first), don't spray any kind of manure on leaves or crops you are going to eat, and wash store bought veggies thoroughly and you will be fine.
It's one of the advantages of growing your own veggies- you know what has been done to them!
E coli is everywhere including in our own digestive tracts and doesn't usually make us sick. I don't know about the current outbreak in germany, but when we have had outbreaks here in the US, it is usually traced to crops that have been sprayed with manure as a fertilizing process. E. coli lives in the guts of ruminants (as well as people!) and can be passed on through their manure. The E coli is only on the outside and can be washed off.
So don't use fresh manure in your garden at all (be sure it is well composted first), don't spray any kind of manure on leaves or crops you are going to eat, and wash store bought veggies thoroughly and you will be fine.
It's one of the advantages of growing your own veggies- you know what has been done to them!
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Spongegirl
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I have wondered the same thing. And it is a good thing to be worried about it! We MUST be thinking about the effect sprayed topics are effecting everything from the 'birds to the bees' It's usually poison or detrimental to the health of something and everything.
It is for sure only on the plant. I asked an expert. I asked before and must have misunderstood what he told me because I thought he said it could be in it as well. I just asked for clarification when the rainbowgardener replied. So only topically maked me feel better about both possible answers.
I want to lead a community garden and am searching for knowledge just like this. My education is not giving me the good stuff fast enough! haha.
It is for sure only on the plant. I asked an expert. I asked before and must have misunderstood what he told me because I thought he said it could be in it as well. I just asked for clarification when the rainbowgardener replied. So only topically maked me feel better about both possible answers.
I want to lead a community garden and am searching for knowledge just like this. My education is not giving me the good stuff fast enough! haha.
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applestar
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It would be a good idea to put a fence around the veg garden to keep your dog out so she doesn't do her business anywhere near the food crops, and restrict her to defecating down-slope in respect to the garden.
Some people build a fenced "run" for their dogs, one of my friends trained her dog to poop only in a certain area -- go left out the sliding doors and to the back corner of the yard.... She said her dog is very good about it except during the winter snow -- then she often won't make it past the patio...
Some people build a fenced "run" for their dogs, one of my friends trained her dog to poop only in a certain area -- go left out the sliding doors and to the back corner of the yard.... She said her dog is very good about it except during the winter snow -- then she often won't make it past the patio...
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Handsomeryan
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Warning: What I'm about to say may gross some people out so if you are squeamish or easily offended skip this posting.
I have no personal knowledge of what caused this particular outbreak but many ecoli outbreaks are caused by contamination from human feces. Most often on leafy crops like lettuce. Basically what happens is that farmers have huge fields of their crop with irrigation ditches running along the sides and sometimes even bisecting fields. When the workers who spend all day in the field need to answer the call of nature, they walk down into one of the irrigation ditches where they can get some privacy and do their business. When the water is pumped out of these ditches and sprayed all over the crop you get human fecal contamination. Gross.
I have no personal knowledge of what caused this particular outbreak but many ecoli outbreaks are caused by contamination from human feces. Most often on leafy crops like lettuce. Basically what happens is that farmers have huge fields of their crop with irrigation ditches running along the sides and sometimes even bisecting fields. When the workers who spend all day in the field need to answer the call of nature, they walk down into one of the irrigation ditches where they can get some privacy and do their business. When the water is pumped out of these ditches and sprayed all over the crop you get human fecal contamination. Gross.
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Spongegirl
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Handsomeryan wrote:Warning: What I'm about to say may gross some people out so if you are squeamish or easily offended skip this posting.
I have no personal knowledge of what caused this particular outbreak but many ecoli outbreaks are caused by contamination from human feces. Most often on leafy crops like lettuce. Basically what happens is that farmers have huge fields of their crop with irrigation ditches running along the sides and sometimes even bisecting fields. When the workers who spend all day in the field need to answer the call of nature, they walk down into one of the irrigation ditches where they can get some privacy and do their business. When the water is pumped out of these ditches and sprayed all over the crop you get human fecal contamination. Gross.
**Veteran slowly walks to the trash can and empty's his bowl of salad into it** there goes my diet.
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Handsomeryan
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It is produced inside a greenhouse well away from fecal-tainted sprayers.
The E. coli outbreak a couple of years ago that was traced to a packaged salad greens farm in California turned out to be caused by feral pigs, not people/farmworkers/sloppy handling.
The feral pigs broke through a remote portion of the property-line fence and...ah...polluted the soil and water. This pollution (yes, body waste) contained the E. coli native to their intestines. Duh. Which bacteria were then taken up into the plants.
Yes. INTO. I cannot look it up right now, but it was either Science News or Science which reproduced the fluorescence photos showing that the E. coli bacteria were taken up into the plants' tissues.
If you can grow your own veggies, so much the better. If you can ascertain the source and method of supply, that will work, too. None of these E. coli outbreaks which we hear about in the news have been traced to farmers' markets; they've been traced to large, industrial food sources.
I'm waiting to hear/see/read about the source of the current outbreak in Europe. This particular outbreak is highly unusual in its effects in that approx. one-third of the affected people develop kidney complications, as opposed to 5% in more normal outbreaks of E. coli.
Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
The feral pigs broke through a remote portion of the property-line fence and...ah...polluted the soil and water. This pollution (yes, body waste) contained the E. coli native to their intestines. Duh. Which bacteria were then taken up into the plants.
Yes. INTO. I cannot look it up right now, but it was either Science News or Science which reproduced the fluorescence photos showing that the E. coli bacteria were taken up into the plants' tissues.
If you can grow your own veggies, so much the better. If you can ascertain the source and method of supply, that will work, too. None of these E. coli outbreaks which we hear about in the news have been traced to farmers' markets; they've been traced to large, industrial food sources.
I'm waiting to hear/see/read about the source of the current outbreak in Europe. This particular outbreak is highly unusual in its effects in that approx. one-third of the affected people develop kidney complications, as opposed to 5% in more normal outbreaks of E. coli.
Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
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gundogblue
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handsomeryan is right, when I was in Vietnam we were told by the army doctors not to eat any indiginous rice, because the chances were good that you could come down with ecoli, or infectious hepititis. The reason is because when ever Popason had a call from nature, he would just squat in the rice paddies, and answer the call, very bad. But the good news is that all you have to do is wash your store-bought produce off and you will be fine.
Paul
Paul
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annastasia76
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but what about what Cynthia H. said, I remember the scare in California. and from what I read about that outbreak in Europe it's also things like tomatoes that are getting infected, those don't touch the ground, at least not if they are staked up so I don't know how they would get infected unless it's taken up the roots.
and it's not just the dog I'm worried about, what about birds and rabbits that are wild in the area?? If the spinach ecoli outbreak was from wild pigs then what else could it be caused by?
and it's not just the dog I'm worried about, what about birds and rabbits that are wild in the area?? If the spinach ecoli outbreak was from wild pigs then what else could it be caused by?
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applestar
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I can only find this one at the moment:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=106622#106622
but we had another lively discussion with Ozark Lady participating, in which we talked about how your immune system/resistance might actually be weakened by trying to eliminate contact with/ingesting germs....
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=106622#106622
but we had another lively discussion with Ozark Lady participating, in which we talked about how your immune system/resistance might actually be weakened by trying to eliminate contact with/ingesting germs....
It may be that the article I read is "subscriber content only." In any case, an open Internet search can't find it for me. 
Here are two articles, though, that are available on an open search and which discuss the uptake by internal plant tissues of E. coli:
[url=https://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/9067/title/Cleaning_Up_after_Livestock]"Cleaning up after livestock"[/url]
[url=https://www.unisci.com/stories/20021/0129023.htm]"Lettuce takes up E. coli, defeating normal cleaning"[/url]
We were not evolved to eat pristine food. We were also not evolved to eat the food of herbivores who have been "finished" at feedlots, where they are fed food they were not evolved to eat.
In order to survive the feedlots, steers and any other animals being "finished for market" are injected with antibiotics, to guard against wildfire transmission of infections in such crowded conditions, and they're fed soy and corn, subsidized and therefore cheap grains on the scale of a CAFO (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation). In the different chemical environment that soy and corn give rise to in the bovine digestive system, E. coli flourishes (not gonna do a citation tonight). This is one reason, those who study the phenomenon have theorized, that outbreaks of E. coli have been more frequent in the past decade to 15 years.
Safe handling of produce in the home kitchen involves washing it thoroughly. Anyone concerned about food contamination would be well advised to read up on the current guidelines for preparing produce, meat, chicken, and other foods in the home kitchen. Just as with canning, the USDA is the source of information on [url=https://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/Does_Washing_Food_Promote_Food_Safety/index.asp]preparing these foods[/url] for safe everyday consumption.
Cynthia
Here are two articles, though, that are available on an open search and which discuss the uptake by internal plant tissues of E. coli:[url=https://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/9067/title/Cleaning_Up_after_Livestock]"Cleaning up after livestock"[/url]
[url=https://www.unisci.com/stories/20021/0129023.htm]"Lettuce takes up E. coli, defeating normal cleaning"[/url]
We were not evolved to eat pristine food. We were also not evolved to eat the food of herbivores who have been "finished" at feedlots, where they are fed food they were not evolved to eat.
In order to survive the feedlots, steers and any other animals being "finished for market" are injected with antibiotics, to guard against wildfire transmission of infections in such crowded conditions, and they're fed soy and corn, subsidized and therefore cheap grains on the scale of a CAFO (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation). In the different chemical environment that soy and corn give rise to in the bovine digestive system, E. coli flourishes (not gonna do a citation tonight). This is one reason, those who study the phenomenon have theorized, that outbreaks of E. coli have been more frequent in the past decade to 15 years.
Safe handling of produce in the home kitchen involves washing it thoroughly. Anyone concerned about food contamination would be well advised to read up on the current guidelines for preparing produce, meat, chicken, and other foods in the home kitchen. Just as with canning, the USDA is the source of information on [url=https://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/Does_Washing_Food_Promote_Food_Safety/index.asp]preparing these foods[/url] for safe everyday consumption.
Cynthia
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annastasia76
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Handsomeryan
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I'm sure that researcher was thinking, "I'm so glad I spent a decade in college to do this."From the article cited in the previous link wrote:Fresh cow manure (475 g) collected at the Rutgers University dairy barn was inoculated with a suspension of E. coli O157:H7/pGFP and vigorously mixed by hand.
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annastasia76
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rainbowgardener
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The European outbreak is a new strain and resistant to some antibiotics. That would fit with it being sourced to industrially grown cattle treated with antibiotics. What happens in those cases is that their internal microflora are then being bred for antibiotic resistance. Those resistant micro-organisms are then excreted in their manure. If that manure is either deliberately used on crops or just becomes a contaminant in the soil (leaching out of the manure lagoons the CAFO's create), then the kind of problems we are seeing are created.
Your article is really scary, re the uptake, cynthia. I didn't know that. Hopefully the fact that it can happen in the laboratory, doesn't necessarily mean that it always does happen in the field. In most past cases I have read about, disease outbreaks have been traced to unwashed produce.
Your article is really scary, re the uptake, cynthia. I didn't know that. Hopefully the fact that it can happen in the laboratory, doesn't necessarily mean that it always does happen in the field. In most past cases I have read about, disease outbreaks have been traced to unwashed produce.
This is what I've read about it so far...the farm in question is an organnic farm, that sprouts were a main suspect of being infected. They are also looking at lettuce, cukes, tomatos. I don't know about organic greenhouse growing, but the farm that was shut down grew the sporuts in steam barrels at 100 F, good conditions for bacteria to multiply. maybe being grown hydroponically?
Sources say no manure had been used on the crops. Somewhere along the line,though, there had to be a sanitaion problem, either the water or the sprouts themselves.
As far as your own garden goes, just don't put manure on a growing garden.
Sources say no manure had been used on the crops. Somewhere along the line,though, there had to be a sanitaion problem, either the water or the sprouts themselves.
As far as your own garden goes, just don't put manure on a growing garden.