I think I might be overcrowded...reviews please!

[Aya]

Hey Everyone

You probably all remember that this is my first year gardening, and I jumped in eagerly with both feet before doing all my homework. (I'm also the one who had my dog eat my entire garden a little while back)
Anyhow, I was out perusing my plants today, and I'm wondering - I think I might be a bit overcrowded. DH said I could have a big garden if we get this place on some land that we're looking at, and I want to make sure to do things the right way when I get there. So my planter is 8'x2'x1' and I have:

8 Strawberries
5-6 Loose leaf lettuce
3 Swiss chard
12 Carrots
1 Shallot
3 Broccoli
4 Peas (Sugar snap and little marvel)
2 Pumpkin (Bad idea right?)
1 Cherry tomato
1 Cherokee Purple tomato
2 Roma tomatoes
1 Green Bell Pepper
1 Cucumber

Sounds like a lot to me..
[img]https://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p121/WereAya/Garden1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p121/WereAya/Garden2.jpg[/img]

Also, I posted the thread about shallots - wondering what they look like when ready for harvesting. I've used a little of the green shoots as "green onions" for dinner one night, but this is what my 1 shallot looks like - any advice? I don't see any signs of the stalks or anything that everyone says it sends up that contain the shallots...
[img]https://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p121/WereAya/Scallion.jpg[/img]

Any advice would be super helpful

[Bobberman]

Pumpkin is fine if it grows away from the bed like up the fence! Looks very good . I would put the peppers close to the white fence for reflected light!

[Aya]

My one little pepper plant is actually almost directly in front of the white lattice fencing : )

(Completely un-intentional)

[rainbowgardener]

We have lots of different ideas around here about plant spacing. Some people crowd plants like crazy and swear it works for them. Some people insist that plants have to have a yard around them in every direction. I'm in the middle. But by my standards you are WAY over crowded. There's 4 tomato plants in that list. In a narrow bed like that, I would think the tomato plants would pretty well fill it, with room around the edges for the carrots, shallots and a few strawberries. The lettuce is all right because it will benefit from the shade of the tomatoes for awhile and then it will bolt and be done. The broccoli depends on when you started it. I plant my broccoli in the bed with the tomatoes, but I transplant it into the garden in March and start harvesting it about now. So by the time the tomatoes are taking up a lot of room, the broccoli is gone.

Pumpkin plants get HUGE and cucumbers get big. The cucumber could probably grow up the back fence. The only way the pumpkin works is if it grows OVER the front fence and down the other side and out over the lawn. But then it will be very difficult to mow the lawn and if you don't mow it, the tall grass will be competing a bit with the pumpkin... If it were me, I would just pull the pumpkins and wait until you have your big garden to try them. If your broccoli isn't about ready to harvest, I'd pull it too. It doesn't do very well in hot weather anyway. Then you can try to work with all the rest. Keep it well fed and the rest may all work.

[applestar]

First, it's going to depend on whether you want to grow them "properly" to full size with good production, or if you are like me and want to just experiment, see them grow, and learn what you can from this year's experience.

Let's assume you are going to prune those tomatoes to single vines, cutting off the side shoots/suckers and tying them up those pipes.

Train/guide the suger snap peas towards the back trellis and fence. I hope
Little Marvel is in the front. Let them use the front fence.

Let's hope that in your Seattle climate, the two pumpkins will take a while to get going and the broccoli will take off to grow up above them, and finish before the vines take over that spot. I would allow them to then move out into the grass in front, but that's up to you. You may also be able to let them roam around the feet of the tomatoes as long as you are careful not to let the tendrils grab hold of the tomato plants.

You are inviting serious fungal issues on both the tomatoes and pumpkins this way, so get going with weekly application of Milk Spray.

Now, skipping over the carrots and spinach/Swiss chard/lettuce group, I'm concerned that the pepper will get swallowed up by the cucumber. I would move it to the gap between the carrots and the greens. A little closer to the spinach than the carrots since the Spinach will be done first.

Let the cucumber climb the back fence. At some point, I would attach a trellis netting or tie strings to the back half of the pipe frame and let the cukes and other climbers drape over the top rear half.

Strawberries will runner and start filling the bed.

Shallots grow bulbous structures (kind of like garlic) at the base of the leaves under ground. Each leaf feeds one layer of the shallot bulb. So as tempting as it is, try not to harvest the leaves too much especially if you only have the one. Also, it seems like you have multiple shoots. Did you separate the shallots into individual cloves before planting? There may also be the long day/short day variety factor. You need to grow long day varieties.

One fun way to grow onion/garlic/shallot greens is to leave a generous portion of the bulb when you cut off the roots before using them for cooking, then plant it bout 1/2" below ground. Most of the time, they will send up green shoots that will grow quite respectably for harvesting.

[tomf]

I am with rainbow on this one, it looks a bit crowded.

[Aya]

I thought it was a little crowded.

I've thought of pulling some of them up. I really want the tomatoes to be really productive and since all four of them are in about a 2 square foot area, I doubt they'll work out well if I don't move something. I originally had 3 pumpkins going. (1 Big Max and 2 Sugar Pie) but ended up pulling one of the sugar pie as it was still really tiny even though I planted them all at the same time. I'm assuming they were competing for the nutrients in the soil. My broccoli all have big leaves, but no signs of any heads developing yet. My peas now have one set of flowers and all of my strawberries have lots of little green berries. No sign of life from any of the tomatoes, although I think I see little flower buds on them...
I picked some of the spinach - its sooo tender! Definitely better than the grocery store : )

My cucumber and bell pepper are both recent additions, and I'm not sure it'll get warm enough to get fruit on either one, but we'll see. Thanks for the in depth reviews, I'm hoping I can get out and move some of them around a little - I never thought of putting the tomatoes in the center of the bed and surrounding them with the small plants. And with the shallot - I didn't know there were separate cloves like garlic - so I just planted the whole shallot as it was..hopefully that's okay..

[gixxerific]

If it were me I would take out everything but 1 pumpkin. Just kidding here. But really that is about a good spot for one pumpkin.

RBG and Apple both have good ideas. There are ways around it. But IMHO the pumpkins (at least one) needs to go. Strawberries can be grown in a pot allowing more room in there. Maybe take out one Roma even though I believe all those tomatoes are too close. But you could train them like Apple said with only the main stem they would work like that. Definitely trellis the peas and cucumbers.

You have to get creative and it can work but if left on it's own I'm sorry to say you will have a big mess. A lot of those plant are big sprawls so left unattended you may have a hard time telling where one plant begins and another ends.

ON the other hand do what I would do and get to expanding that garden. Build another one. You have a good start there, if it were me I would extend it both ways to the side and bring it out some more.

Good luck and keep us posted on how things go.

[tomf]

If it were me I would start a garden in one or 2 more places. Pumpkins will take over big time and need lots of room.

[jal_ut]

I thought I replied to this earlier, but it didn't take.

Yes, you are overcrowded, however, since you have went to the bother to plant, I would let it grow and see what happens. We learn to do by doing.

[cynthia_h]

Build a second frame and fill it. You'll know when to move what plants!

But seriously, the earlier the better on moving them. Two or three of the tomato plants would LOVE more sun and air, one pumpkin for sure. Maybe a couple of smaller plants. Don't want to dig up half of the plants b/c of transplant shock, but this might relieve some of the crowding.

Even for Square Foot Gardening/Biointensive/other intensive methods, this is asking too much. Not necessarily of the soil, but of the plants' resistance to airborne problems.

And fence it off from Calypso....the little darling!

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[Bobberman]

You can plant closer in a narrow bed than a wide square bed because the p lants are not surrounded and get more light! Would most people here say that is true? Also heavy feeders can cause a problem in narrow beds unless the soil is very rich!