I have a serious problem

[sheeshshe]

and I do this EVERY year. I over plant! Winter is so long and I get so excited to start seedlings and I get carried away EVERY year! and EVERY year I swear I'm not going to do that again. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH so I just went out there and planted my squash and realized that there is NO way they can remain that close. they'll kill each other off!

so, I hope its ok to dig them up after planting them because I want to give some away.

anyone have this problem? I swore it wasn't going to happen again this year. EEEP!!! I need help. maybe gardeners anonymous? who's with me? LOL

[Aorourke]

I did plant loads as well, but didn't take very good care or maybe mothered too much, who knows?! But now I'm left with enough to fill my raised bed.
You must be getting good at it but the time you still have lots of plants left and be able to give them away.

However I'll probably do the same next year, take better care of them and feel proud to give some of them off knowing I DID THIS!!

[stella1751]

This year, for the first time ever, I started exactly enough seeds for everyone to have tons and tons of room. Now I fret because if even one seedling dies before I can plant it, my numbers will be all wrong, and I will have an accusatory gap all summer long.

My dog toppled a pepper seedling two days ago so he could eat the fishy-tasting roots, knocking it upside down and working it out of its pot. I managed to save the pepper, but the dog's future with me is pretty shaky

[rainbowgardener]

But sure you can dig up plants.... I'm digging things up and moving them around in my garden all the time. Some things of course take to it easier than others and I don't mess with root crops like carrots, but in general take a bunch of dirt up with the plant and it will move fine...

[sheeshshe]

YET.... I DO have a problem as I didn't label those 20 cherry tomato plants when I up-potted them EEEEEP! and I WAS planning on giving those away. And now I can't because I don't know which ones they are... and they can't end up being the ONE tigerella that made it. LOL I'd cry!

so now IDK what I'm going to do. 5 gal buckets? 40 tomato plants?? LOL

[hendi_alex]

I've easily gotten fruit on my cherry tomatoes when in 1-3 gallon nursery pots. Perhaps keep the plants in less than 5 gallon containers until the fruit lets you know which plant is which. Then the plants can be put in the ground, and who wouldn't want large plants laden with fruit, for your give a ways?

[jal_ut]

Ok, I am just curious. How many squash, what kind and how far apart do you have them?

I usually plant 5 seed to a hill. A hill being an area about a square foot for placement of the seed. Then move over 5 or 6 feet and do it again. This year I decided to plant a row instead with a seed every foot in the row. I am talking a 33 foot row. Then I moved over 5 feet and put another row. Even a third. (perhaps all will not come up, but most will)

Here is the thing, from what I have seen in the past these will do fine. If your planting is more dense than this you may have a problem.

[sheeshshe]

good idea on the tomato plants. I think I'll do just that


Now, on the squash... I planted a row. They're seedlings with one-two leaves on them. I planted every 18" I think. some maybe every 2 feet. They're straightneck and crookneck. the next row I have a few that didn't make it into that row, so I planted those a couple feet back and spaced them out further. but, these plants get gigantic though so aren't they going to have no room to grow? I just remember last year when the plants got so huge. but if its fine then I'll keep it. if its not fine, I'll dig em up and give some to a friend

[jal_ut]

I will also say, when I planted 5 to a hill, the vines would all head out in a different direction. Many of the squash types and pumpkins will have vines 15-25 feet long. Of course they would cross over the adjacent row, over into the corn, out on the grass etc. but they would all have fruit on them.

Planting a row instead of the hill puts the same number of plants in the alloted area, it just spreads the roots out a bit better for starters. The roots will cover every square inch of soil as far as the vines reach when they are mature. If you are after giants, then only plant one plant and give it a lot of space. Otherwise you can crowd them a bit. The real worry is what they will do to the surrounding garden??? They get BIG.

Have a great day.

[jal_ut]

Oh, we were writing at the same time. I think your squash will do just fine. The question being will they take over adjacent plants? You can point the vines a bit in the direction you want them to go.

[hendi_alex]

Ive gotten way better in planting and spacing this year, especially with lettuce and salad greens. Instead of sprinkling seeds in a continuous row or area broadcast, I sprinkle little micro bursts of seeds every six or so inches. After germination, the plants are lifted and spaced such that no plant is closer than about six inches to another.

My earliest squash and cucumbers come from transplants, where only two seeds are placed in each starter pot. Pretty easy to space them out at transplant time.

Beans are always block planted. Two seeds per hole, about six to eight inches minimum between seed holes. I generally just poke a hole in the soft soil of the raised bed, drop the seeds and then cover and firm.

I kind of wonder when I hear most folks talk about squash and zucchini plants, the number that they put in the ground. If I get three healthy plants, then that is enough for us to have 2-7 meals per week, plus many tens of pounds given away. I try to plant two zucchini and two crook neck and then start four replacements after the first batch starts to produce. Then when the plants get tired or get hit by SVB, the replacement plants are already growing and are ready to put in the ground.

Since transitioning to mostly block planting, it simply amazes me, the amount of produce that comes from just a small area. Last night for dinner, we had cucumber, parsley potatoes made from our new potatoes and our own parsley, and stir fried/steamed Swiss chard made from our eight or so plants and seasoned with our fresh garlic. These are tiny groupings of plants, yet they provided about 70% of our meal. That is the case from early spring through late fall, small blocks or just a few plants continuously providing 30% to maybe 90% of our spring, summer, and fall meals.

Sorry for the rambling post, one thought moved to another, and this long rambling script resulted.

[sheeshshe]

rambling posts are fun LOL!



OK, so the squash row is in between the cucumber row and the melon row... hows that for planning? all vining. AHHHH! I had to put it all on that side as the tomatoes were on that side last year and I can't put them there again (we had a fungus). But, I put the cucumbers at the fence so they'll climb the fence. and the melons are along the walkway (they're not actually in yet, but that is where I planned on putting them) so, most likely if they do OK, they'll crawl the other direction and into where my tomatoes/beans will live.

now to make sure my tomatoes are spaced far enough! I don't want to deal with fungus again this year because of over crowding

[hendi_alex]

The only problem with that grouping in my opinion, is the fact that SVB may possibly target all three crops. I have the luxury of a large yard which has lots of shrub and tree barriers. I take advantage of that by planting squash, cucumbers, and melons in several areas, many of which are separated by the hedges and other barriers. Most years SVB only affect the squash, and disruption there is limited through planting a succession of three or four plantings. Sometimes the next group is planted well away from the first group but not always. SVB usually only seems to be active during the planting of my first crop of squash, and those vines are generally destroyed before the larvae can mature. Perhaps that disrupts having a second wave of these pests attack the second planting.

[Rogue11]

I kind of wonder when I hear most folks talk about squash and zucchini plants, the number that they put in the ground. If I get three healthy plants, then that is enough for us to have 2-7 meals per week, plus many tens of pounds given away. I try to plant two zucchini and two crook neck and then start four replacements after the first batch starts to produce. Then when the plants get tired or get hit by SVB, the replacement plants are already growing and are ready to put in the ground.

Question. how long does a zucchini/squash plant produce? This is the first year I am growing them so I have no experience. I never thought of starting 'replacement' plants, but it might make sense if they only produce for a few months, especially since we have such a long growing season. My plants (I have two zucchini, two crook necks and 2 patty pan) are just starting to get their first female flowers. So maybe this will be a good time to get seeds for a second batch?!

[hendi_alex]

That really depends upon the growing conditions where the plants are grown. My dad had rich clay based soil, in the middle of a forest with no other gardeners within a few miles (no bugs/no disease). The garden was shaded from the hottest afternoon sun. He grew giant plants that produced late into the summer. My plants are grown in poor sandy soil and they get the full heat of the sun throughout the afternoon and the plants tend to get hit with SVB, leaf footed squash bugs, and powdery mildew. Needless to say, I'm happy if the plants produce squash for over a month. So I keep a steady stream of replacements, in order to keep production going all summer and into the fall. Even if my plants don't get hit with SVB, they still get tired and spent after six weeks or so.

SVB is so active in some southern locations, that gardeners tend to totally give up on squash and other target vegetables. Anyway, IMO, it is easy to pot a few extras, just in case. Then if something goes wrong with your first planting, you have replacements ready to go into the ground. The replacements from the time the seeds are planted, can stay in a 1 gallon nursery pot for at least 4-6 weeks and will still transplant without a problem.

[sheeshshe]

that is good sound advice. and I think I may follow it

[rainbowgardener]

You being in maine may have less bug problems than southern gardeners. You also have a much shorter growing season, so less time for plants to get "tired" and spent. If you don't get hit with the SVB's (ask your neighbors or a local garden shop if they are an issue where you are) you may not need to replace your plants.

I'm one of those who has (this year anyway) given up on growing zucchini, though I am trying acorn squash, which the SVB's are said not to like as much.

[sheeshshe]

last year was the first year we had SVB. now that you say what you just said, I bet I know why. we had a REALLY early spring and it was super hot. and lasted through the summer. I wonder if that had something to do with it. This year thus far, we've had a non-existent spring its been cold and damp. a few days back it was 48* outside! two days later it finally warmed up and was 82*. what a shock that was LOL

But, do you think the weather had something to do with it last year? should I not expect to get them this year since we didn't have an extra long summer like last year?

[jal_ut]

I am sure the weather patterns effect the insect populations too.

On squash, those varieties of the species Cucurbita pepo (crookneck, zucchini, patty pan, acorn, delicata, some pumpkins) are the ones the vine borers really like to attack because they have hollow stems.

Butternut is C moschata and seems to be resistant to the borers. It does not have a hollow stem.

[sheeshshe]

that makes a lot of sense too. they attacked the pumpkins and yellow squash last year. but didn't touch my cucumbers.

[farmerlon]

and I do this EVERY year. I over plant! ...

I am getting better at it, but I always seem to plant way too many Tomato plants. The temptation can be hard to resist. Next year, I think, I will have learned my lesson, and I will strike the right balance.

I will also try to do a little bit better on not spacing my Broccoli and Cabbage plants too tight... it's all starting to fall into place.

[sheeshshe]

LOL, glad I'm not the only one ehehehhe

speaking of spacing, how do you space your tomato plants? Mine were too close last year and I ended up with a lot of early blight.

[hendi_alex]

I try not to plant my tomato plants closer than 5-6 feet center to center. That gives at least two feet between plants after they are fully grown.

[Avonnow]

I live in Florida and we have very limited space for plants, but I make the most of my raised beds and get recycled pots from others trash and barrels, etc to plant my other seedlings. I do agree with others, if I only planted two or three of something - I will have nothing in no time, some bug, or weather or careless gardner(ME ) will knock or break something. I started (for my small area) with 25 tomato plants, and while I do have most, I lost about 5 right away from some sort of sudden death! We had a horrible wind store get a few others and then you have what you have. So I say plant away - it saves me alot of fustration and depression down the road. I want my hard work to pay off one way or another. I have packed alot of stuff into my raised beds and they seem to do fine. My tomatos are slowly coming to end here in Florida. Over all I plan on doing more next time, while happy with what I got, I would like more for canning and such. Good Luck.

[stella1751]

This year, for the first time ever, I am experimenting with an excess of spacing over an excess of plants. My big pepper plants (Habaneros and Hybrid Big Chile II's) are gonna get 4 square feet of space each, for 8 plants per one 8 x 4 bed.

Because peppers are such hardy, forgiving plants, I always squeeze as many as is humanly possible into one bed. They will thrive; they always do. (I suspect peppers would be a weed up here if it weren't for our cold winter weather ) However, I got to wondering this spring how they might do if they weren't all crammed together.

I just finished carving out a bed for the HBC II's. Despite the ugly forecast, I'm gonna plant the remaining five today. Now I have three days, weather permitting, to get one ready for the Habaneros. It will be fun to see how much space really matters to these guys!