Got advice from an independent garden center.......

[Francis Barnswallow]

.......regarding leafminers. Yes, leafminers....again. My garden is infested with them and "seek and squish" doesn't work anymore.

Anywho, the guy who worked there sounded like he knew what he was talking about so I asked him about my leafminer problem and he said to just ignore them. I was shocked.

So is this a good idea? Just ignore them?

[GardenRN]

first I'd like to say that I personally have never had a leaf miner problem.

Second I'd like to say, that sounds like the worst advice ever.

Maybe he didn't understand that it is a "miner" problem, not a "minor" problem.

[Francis Barnswallow]

first I'd like to say that I personally have never had a leaf miner problem.

Second I'd like to say, that sounds like the worst advice ever.

Maybe he didn't understand that it is a "miner" problem, not a "minor" problem.

I explained to him how bad it was in detail. I bought a thing of spinosad just in case b/c the place was about 45 minutes from my house. I figured I'd check here to see what yall think before I use the spinosad. I'm also getting really good info from "AskTom"...he's on a local news station that gives tips on gardening.

[GardenRN]

I'd go with "ask tom". the guy at the store may sound like he knows what he's talking about. But it sounds like a version of "fake it till you make it" to me.

[Francis Barnswallow]

Will do, thanks.

[Kisal]

Leafminers are extremely difficult to control, because they spend most of their lives inside the plant leaves, where insecticides can't reach them. The thing to do is remove infected leaves from the plant as soon as they're noticed.

If you want to treat them with a spray, you have to watch for the adults, because that's the only time they are susceptible. In much of the southern U.S., they swarm to breed in April and May. You could contact the nearest Extension Service office to learn the time when the adults swarm in your locale. The Extension Service also might be able to suggest an appropriate organic control for use on food plants.

Here is a picture of an adult leaf miner on a spinach leaf. The insects are quite small.
[img]https://www.ars.usda.gov/is/graphics/photos/oct07/d911-1i.jpg[/img]

[Francis Barnswallow]

I've seen many of those flies recently.

[Rogue11]

Someone at the local nursery suggested sticky traps for leaf miners. Did anyone tried those? I bought some but haven't actually hung them up yet.

[cynthia_h]

The guy at the nursery may have met leaf miners and been defeated by them. Miners are terribly hard to get rid of, as you well know.
Bioneem is the most recommended insecticide to rid your plants of leaf miners. It won't eradicate every blessed one, but it will decimate the population.
See if "Tom" agrees.

Is this your personal experience, Marlingardener? I've had leaf miners munch away on my spinach and sorrel (they must not have liked my chard or kale very much ), and I've just pinched off the leaves and squished the varmints.

I've just performed an Internet search on Bioneem under a couple of possible spellings, and leaf miners are *not* listed as target insects; that's why I'm asking if you yourself have experienced success against them with this product. Insects like thrips, whiteflies, aphids, gypsy moths, webworms, mealy bugs, "caterpillars" (as if there is only one kind! what about Monarch caterpillars/instars?! and Swallowtails?! and others?!) are named, then there's a big claim that "over 30 common insect pests" are killed by Bio-Neem/Bioneem/BioNeem etc. Example at https://www.saferbrand.com/store/garden-care/5612

There's a downloadable PDF at https://www.biogrow.co.za/bio_pesticides.htm on 40 crops of economic note and the over 300 insects that BioNeem is said to be effective in controlling. Orders of insects it is lethal to include almost all with wings: Lepidoptera, Diptera, Coleoptera, Hymenoptera, Homoptera, Orthoptera and Heteroptera. (this list from the PDF).

The active ingredient of BioNeem is azadirachtin, derived from the neem tree. I've written about azadirachtin elsewhere; be careful to use it towards sundown to minimize damage to honeybees and other pollinators. However--and I've discussed at length my great skepticism about "inert" ingredients: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=134667

Here's the breakdown of active vs. "inert" ingredients in BioNeem (information taken from label of Safer brand BioNeem):

Azadirachtin = 0.09%
"Inert" ingredients = 99.01%

After the Light Brown Apple Moth/Checkmate fiasco/scandal in California, most of us here in northern California, which was scheduled to be aerial bombarded with the Checkmate, are highly suspicious of "inert" ingredients. The "inert" ingredients in Checkmate were eight (yes, 8!) times as toxic as the declared ingredient, but it took lawsuits and court orders to find out what those ingredients were!

I strongly recommend doing everything possible to ascertain what the "inert" ingredients are which comprise over 99% of this product before committing your food to its embrace.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[Francis Barnswallow]

Someone at the local nursery suggested sticky traps for leaf miners. Did anyone tried those? I bought some but haven't actually hung them up yet.

I'm gonna try that out.

[soil]

look for a recipe online for a oil/soap spray. which is veggie oil/dish soap/water. spray on the plants as you find instructions. spray the plants top and underside of the leaves once a week. this will smother the leafminers and rid you of the problem.

[Rogue11]

Someone at the local nursery suggested sticky traps for leaf miners. Did anyone tried those? I bought some but haven't actually hung them up yet.

I'm gonna try that out.

Check for the trap kits that come with lures. I got the ones for citrus leaf miners, because those buggers did a lot of damage on our citrus trees last year. Even if they only catch a few, at least they will give me a warning as to when the miners are swarming and I can then use insecticidal soap and look for eggs on the leaves

[cynthia_h]

look for a recipe online for a oil/soap spray. which is veggie oil/dish soap/water. spray on the plants as you find instructions. spray the plants top and underside of the leaves once a week. this will smother the leafminers and rid you of the problem.

This doesn't work against leaf miners. They live *inside* the leaves, making tell-tale curlicue trails until the leaf is nothing more than a skeleton of its former self.

Cynthia

[Rogue11]

It doesn't work against the larvae, but it should work against the leaf miner itself shouldn't it?

[cynthia_h]

By the time you see the flies, your leaves are destroyed--or mostly destroyed. The larvae are what eat the leaves. They are the "leaf miners" we're trying to eliminate/minimize.

A two-pronged attack might be good, though; eliminate the larvae *and* any surviving adults, so as to reduce the eggs laid in the soil. Good idea!

Cynthia

[Francis Barnswallow]

The traps would kill moths too right? I'm noticing some kind of moth larvae damage as well.

[Rogue11]

By the time you see the flies, your leaves are destroyed--or mostly destroyed. The larvae are what eat the leaves. They are the "leaf miners" we're trying to eliminate/minimize.

A two-pronged attack might be good, though; eliminate the larvae *and* any surviving adults, so as to reduce the eggs laid in the soil. Good idea!

Cynthia

First there has to be a fly (or in the case of the citrus leaf miner a moth) to lay eggs that than turn into larvae which turn eventually into leaf miners again, right?

So if you kill the insect before they can lay there eggs or the eggs before they hatch that should break the cycle is what I am thinking (hoping).

What I am going to try this year is hang out sticky traps with lures (which are supposed to attract males) as an early alarm system, check them daily and when I see any trapped leaf miners I know to check the trees more thoroughly for insects and their eggs.

[Rogue11]

The traps would kill moths too right? I'm noticing some kind of moth larvae damage as well.

They do have traps with specific lures for different pests. The traps themselves will catch anything that touches them, it's just a matter of attracting the insects you want to trap.

[Francis Barnswallow]

I put up 5 traps around the affected garden spots and they're covered in many species of flies....including leaf miners and a few moths.

[Avonnow]

They do work - well, and this may not bother you, but I have alot of lizards in my garden, they eat all kinds of bugs, and I have butterflys as well from time to time. I personally have a hard time when the sticky trap catches a lizard or butterfly - I know I am a sissy! I can't bear to look at it, or see it - I feel awful and I had them suspended on a small cable. The lizards go after the bugs on the trap and then they die from being stuck to it and I just can't bear to see it, I will try them again but I am going to use something to hang them way out there where the lizards can't get to them (if possible). You just never know what you will catch, but in support of my garden, I hate to invest so much like you Francis and see the bugs take over. Hopefully you have a stronger stomach then me. Oh and on a funny note, I got my hair caught in one once - I felt like the biggest idiot ever, so glad there was nobody watching - a stupid moment.

[Francis Barnswallow]

I can stomach seeing a lizard being stuck. And I do have lizards in the garden as well.....big ones. But I've invested a lot of money and effort into this garden. I've become desperate to put an end to this problem and so far I'd say the traps have trapped hundreds of flies and moths in a 72 hour span.

If they were newts (used to catch them as a kid in upstate NY) that got stuck, then yes, I would feel bad.

My funny note would be when my bro put one of these traps next to his LCD 50" flat screen TV b/c at night he would have small flies fly onto his screen. Well one day he left his window open during a cold front and the wind blew the fly trap right onto his screen. He spent days trying to clean the screen and couldn't. He had to get it cleaned professionally for $80.

[Avonnow]

Well I am now feeling quite smart - that is too funny - Not for your brother for sure. They really are sticky. Good Luck