Too late to turn grass area into veggie garden?

[Jeffross1968]

We just recently moved into a new home here in the mountains of NC. Not really sure where to get info around here, so I'm turning to you guys (and gals) for help, a site a friend suggested.

Firstly, we are probably only a couple weeks away from that all important "last freeze behind us" date. Problem is, there is no existing site for a garden. We are on the side of a mountain on a cleared spot. There seems to be some kind of weak grass growing around our home. I have found what looks to be the best place for day long sun. Problem now is, can I turn that grassy area into a spot for gardening in time for this years planting. I've read some existing threads, but most of them are for longer term solutions.

The area is probably 15 x 15. I'm not willing to use chemicals. I've been told that to spread some kind of plastic over the area in the hopes of killing the grass underneath would work if I had 2 months, due to the amount of pent up energy the grass has this time of year. True? Thinking that would leave removing the top layer with a shovel (ugh...), tilling it, and then I saw someone mention just turning the grass into the soil. Is that literally shoveling it up, and turning it upside down?

Are there any options for me so that I could plant this year?

Also, since the area has never been gardened, and consists of a clay/dirt mixture, that it would be a good idea to lime the area.

At this point, I'm at a total loss, other than the real desire to plant this year. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Kisal]

That's the way I always did it. I double-dug, so that the grass I removed was placed at the bottom of the second level of digging. It's certainly not the easiest method, but it's effective, and always made very productive gardens for me.

You only double-dig the garden when you first establish it. It isn't necessary to do it again in subsequent years.

[bg]

I am digging out my area for my garden, not quite as big as yours... about 13x8 or so. I'm actually putting the grass down in another area of the yard, to build up against some erosion to the patio.

[url=https://s1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/?action=view&current=area.jpg][img]https://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/th_area.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://s1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/?action=view&current=transplant.jpg][img]https://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/th_transplant.jpg[/img][/url]

I also don't have many tools, I got the grass out by taking a square shovel and cutting squares then lifting them out.

[url=https://s1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/?action=view&current=removing.jpg][img]https://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/th_removing.jpg[/img][/url]

It may not look like it in the photos, but I finished getting the grass squares out and most of the dead grass left over. It's now mostly just a dark clay dirt area.

I'm going to be putting some landscape timbers down then filling what I can with some other dirt for the garden. I don't have a tilling machine or anything, so I'm just going to use a pick axe to dig down a bit more before the new dirt. Then I'm going to fence it in, and put a top over it, to keep out the critters.

I'm not quite sure on the dirt to use for filling the garden area in with yet though. I will be buying it soon, as I want to get the plants I have out of their containers ;3

[gixxerific]

You can turn that area into a garden but don't expect miracles this year.

I did the same thing when I moved to this house a few years ago. It was early summer and after moving from a great garden I had to have something here. I tilled up a small area and added compost and aged horse manure. I even brought some tomato plants from my old garden to plant. IT wasn't great year but I did have some tomatoes and various other things. Every year it gets better. So even if you don't plant this year but plan too in the future DEFINITELY get started as soon as possible.

And if you do get started soon it sure can't hurt to plant some stuff this year. But again don't expect miracles but you never know you might have a decent crop.

I used a tiller when I first got here now 3 - 4 years later it is not really necessary. Just keep adding compost/ manure whatever as much as you can every year and soon you will a great garden it just takes time.

Good luck

[jal_ut]

A 15 x 15 plot? Here is what I would do. Get a digging fork. A fork is easier than a shovel to force into the ground. Dig the sod up and shake the dirt off from it. Toss the sod in your compost heap. Now dig the area a little deeper. If you can get some compost from your city, put some on it. You won't need lots, but a little will help. If not maybe you can get some steer manure or compost in a bag at a box store.

If your soil will grow grass, it will grow veggies. Soil just broken up from grass is usually quite fertile. No reason at all you can't have a great garden this year. Yes, it will take a bit of work, but will be well worth the effort.

Good soil is a mixture of clay, silt, and sand, along with some organic matter, chemicals, water and loads of micro-critters. People grimace whenever the word "CLAY" comes up as though it was a horrible thing. Truth be known, soils need clay to really work well.

No lime.

[jal_ut]

If you till a grassy plot it will break up the sod and mix it into the soil. You need to wait a week and till again, and maybe wait a week and till again. this kills the grass and mixes the organic matter into the soil, which is a good thing, but it takes precious time. This is why I said remove the sod and shake the dirt off. You can be ready to plant in a couple of days. Compost the sod with some grass clippings and leaves and put it back on the garden later.

Lots of things have been tried and many magazine articles and books written, so that it can be very confusing and seemingly complicated to grow a garden, but it is not really that hard. Prepare the soil, plant some seed and watch it grow.

Some good gardeners on this forum. Ask questions.

Have a great garden.

[Dixana]

It's never too late! I'm going to second everyone's opinion on the double digging. Just tilling leaves WAY too much grass growing again. Add some composted manure and/or compost. I wouldn't add lime or anything like that unless you get the soil tested first. Appearances are not always what they seem!
And usually the first year after turning a grass area into a garden the soil is very fertile, so you could have a great garden this year! Just keep in mind you could also have a lot of weeds so invest in a good hoe and rake.

[garden5]

Another thing you could do is take a weed-dragon (or similar flame-style weeder) and burn the grass. You could also build some bon-fires on the area to kill the grass, but you would still want to till it. Too much wood ash isn't good as well, so you'd want to get rid of your ashes.


However, I like Kisal's idea the best. This way, you would be adding organic matter deep in the soil. Really, disking off the sod isn't all that bad. You will want to use a flat, square-end edging shovel for the disking.

Just like the last poster did.

[denny27]

I am doing the same thing this year and I was just wondering when you dig or double dig, how deep should you really dig to make the area good for a garden?

[Kisal]

Double-digging means that you dig to a depth twice the length of the head of your shovel.

[bg]

Here's an updated pic of what my area is looking like right now.

[url=https://s1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/?action=view&current=removed.jpg][img]https://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/th_removed.jpg[/img][/url]

I'm going to finish laying my landscape timbers, and then dig with the pick axe as deep as I can. I'm thinking of laying newspaper over that, and putting all the new soil on top to fill up the landscape timbers.

Of course, I will be putting more timbers on top of these, and staggering them. I have some 8" spikes to anchor the bottom timbers and some 6" TimberLok screws to hold the top layer to the bottom.

[gixxerific]

If you till a grassy plot it will break up the sod and mix it into the soil. You need to wait a week and till again, and maybe wait a week and till again. this kills the grass and mixes the organic matter into the soil, which is a good thing, but it takes precious time. This is why I said remove the sod and shake the dirt off. You can be ready to plant in a couple of days. Compost the sod with some grass clippings and leaves and put it back on the garden later.

Good point James I forgot to mention that in my post. I tilled it all together myself and let everything compost where it was. BUT I did heavily mulch the new garden with grass clippings to keep the freshly tilled grass from growing back. Which it WILL do. Just something to consider if you happen to go that route.

Again good luck and whatever you do this year will make next years garden that much better.

[jlock274]

You could always make garden boxes...

[applestar]

I still like sheet mulching for turning grassy area into a garden bed.

[TWC015]

I don't think it is ever too late to make a new bed in an area that has sod.

To prepare a new or overgrown area, I prepare the area like jal_ut does. I dig up a patch and just shake off as much dirt as I can and put the sod aside. I do this because I have rhizome weeds such as bermudagrass and nutgrass that will just come right back up if they are buried under. It does take longer than just tilling the dirt, but for me at least, it is worth it.

[DoubleDogFarm]

Of course, I will be putting more timbers on top of these, and staggering them. I have some 8" spikes to anchor the bottom timbers and some 6" TimberLok screws to hold the top layer to the bottom.

Staggering the layers and Timberlok screws is a excellent way to go. I've used Timberloks for many projects. Your raised beds will be well built and very strong.

Eric

[bg]

The timberlock screws are some of the best I've seen. We've used some for hanging flat screen tvs to the wall (wall mounts), as well as new additions to homes.

I just finished screwing my timbers together, so now I can focus more on trying to dig the dirt and putting up the fencing. I got most of the rocks out of the garden area, there were way more than I figured I would find, including some broken concrete, rusted nails, plastic fencing... all under the 3+ inches of grass I removed, and then digging down in.

[url=https://s1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/?action=view&current=timbers.jpg][img]https://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/aoiyuurei/garden/th_timbers.jpg[/img][/url]

[stella1751]

I don't use a rototiller when I begin a garden, but I do use a spade. (There's no way I would get a spading fork in my soil on a first-time dig.) I shake as much dirt off the grass chunks as possible, and I stack them for use on the compost bin. Then, like many of the others, I double dig what is left.

I would take a large plot like that in stages, preparing a 5'x5' section at a time. That way, you could have a small garden ready in less than a week and another in another week. You could spend the whole summer, working one section while growing goodies in another.

Once you get a small plot dug, you can call your local extension service to find out what kind of soil you have. We have alkaline soil up here in Wyoming. When I first started gardening here, I called the County Extension Agent and asked about amendments for my soil. She told me to avoid manure at all costs because of our alkalinity.

Before planting, I like to work in peat moss on new gardens. It really conditions the soil, and working it in gives me an excellent soil texture. Then I work in about 4" to 6" compost. By the time I've dug, worked in peat moss, and worked in compost, most of the larger rocks have been removed.

What fun lies ahead for you. I would kill for a nice, sunny 15'x15' patch of virgin soil!