squash vine borer, what is your plan of attack forthis year?

[sheeshshe]

In preparation for starting seedlings, all I can think of are those dreaded SVBs!!!! Part of me is thinking, why bother even planting these darn things if they're just going to get taken over by SVB. I got to thinking last night when I should have been sleeping... could I use Surround (the kaolin clay spray for fruit trees) on the vines? Not put it on the leaves but just spray it on the vines themselves? would it work you think?

what are you guys going to try this year?

[applestar]

I'm going with mostly C. moschata species of squash rather than C. pepo or C. maxima. (In direct fallout of this plan, I've downgraded --- in my mind -- any seed catalog/website that do not specify )

[TZ -OH6]

I don't eat many summer squash, so I'm fine robbing my winter squash plants of a few new fruits, so I too am going to concentrate on C. moshatas (butternut and Pennsylvania neck). Tromboncino is a C. moshata summer squash if that is what you need. Although the C. pepo (Delicata) I grow on trellises don't seem to get hit with SVB as much as the pumpkins on the ground, but that might be because the moths prefered one variety over the other.

[GardenRN]

I have more of a problem with squash bugs than SVBs, but I am going to try planting garlic and catnip, and dill?? I have a companion planting list from one of my books that I am going to try to follow more closely in my problem areas this year.

[sheeshshe]

so, you guys are saying that if I ordered specific varieties then it wouldn't be as much of an issue?

what about watermelons and such, will they go for those as well?


you all think the surround would work?

[GardenRN]

The squash bugs and SVBs will definitely go after watermelon! That's the first place I experienced them.

[applestar]

Squash bugs relatives Stink bugs seem to love cucumbers and gourds and melons. I didn't see as many on the watermelon last year.

I've never seem Squash Vine Borer moth larvae on (or more specifically inside the stems of) watermelons or cucumbers. Same reason moschatas are resistant, I think -- they have solid vines and leaf stems unlike the other species.

[farmerlon]

Squash Vine Borers destroyed my pumpkin vines last year.

Here's the "plan of attack" that I am going to try this year...
1. cover seedlings with floating row cover, which I will leave in place until the plants get so large that they break out of it.
2. wrap floating row cover around the vines, starting where the vines emerge from the soil, and wrapping the vine about 6 to 12 inches from there
3. cover the vines with soil, wherever the nodes touch the ground; so the plant can root in multiple locations
4. manually (no chemicals) kill any SVB that I see

I hope all that will make a difference.

[GardenRN]

apple star is right I totally meant pumpkins, not watermelon. They hardly touch my watermelons. Sorry for the misinfo.

[applestar]

you all think the surround would work?

You know, I'm kicking myself because I have a big bag of surround. I've had it for the last two years. Since I AM growing a few of the susceptible pumpkins and squash, I'll attempt to be more diligent about using the product and try it out this year.

Good thing this stuff doesn't spoil, like some other organic gardening products.

[Francis Barnswallow]

I gave up on squash. I'm gonna try one more time with the cucumbers. Last few times the SVB's destroyed the plants within weeks of being planted.

[GardenRN]

<~~~ googling surround because I have no idea what it is. Let me know how it works for you guys!



Didn't see anything. Fill me in?

[sheeshshe]

surround is a kaolin clay. you spray it on fruit trees for pest control. it leaves a film on the leaves etc. I got to thinking that if I sprayed it on the vines then they wouldn't touch them. But IDK if it will work or not. its worth a try right?

[sheeshshe]

looks like people use it!!

https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/squash_pest.html

[sjohnson9206]

looks like people use it!!

https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/squash_pest.html

Looks like there wasn't a major benefit to using it v. the control or row cover.

I only grow zucchini, and by the time I'm sick of them is when the pests come out to play, so last year I was happy when they took over. I was not happy when they took over my cucumber plants though. I might try the kaolin spray I have on them.

[sheeshshe]

oh. well I guess I didn't understand it then. its no wonder with this screaming baby anwyays!

[gixxerific]

Aren't you supposed to put tinfoil/cardboard around the base of the plant and tinfoil on the main stem coming out of the ground to keep SVB from actually getting in the plant?

I too was devastated by them last year. Pumpkins and squash all died a a horrible death. Between them and the cuc beetles, flea beetles and various diseases along with other pest I'm lucky to have harvested anything last year.

[jal_ut]

Sorry those critters are such a plague to many of you. We have such cold winters here that they don't survive winter. They will survive farther south and some years they actually move this far north, but most years we don't see any. Thankfully.

Big Max pumpkin, Hubbard Squash and Bannana Squash are Cucurbita Maxima. I have never tried Cushaw pumpkin, but that is C mixta.
Butternut is C moschata.

Perhaps you can grow some of these varieties?

[Odd Duck]

This
https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/newsletters/hortupdate/2010/jun/tatume.html
is one I'm trying this year. Just recommended to me on another forum and I'm ordering seeds ASAP.

I will use floating row cover until female blossoms appear, I'm going to look for "Tanglefoot" to paint on the vine base, and I'm considering making fake SVB to hang about the garden. I haven't the faintest idea if they're territorial, but I've read that cabbage whites are and hanging fake cabbage whites kept my fall brassicas clear with only 1 Bt spraying.

I'm also going to alternate Bt sprays or spinosad (forgive me, please, I only got 4 summer squash last year from 3 plants and 5 winter squash from 2 plants [stupid SVB ]) every other week, then liquid seaweed or fish emulsion or Medina plus on the alternate weeks. I promise to only spray very early if possible, or when nearly dark, to minimize any hit to the bees (at least as minimal as possible).

I had SVB so bad last year they actually got into the vines at the stem of the trellised spaghetti squash (3 ft off the ground!) and bored right into the fruit. Or at least something that looked just like the SVB grub was in there with frass that looked like SVB frass on the vine. If there's another possibility as to what those were, someone please fill me in on the culprit and how to prevent them.

That's my plan anyway, and here's hoping for some decent squash production this year.

[DoubleDogFarm]

squash vine borer, what is your plan of attack

Live as far north on the left coast. I don't think the squash bugs or SVB can swim.

We don't seem to have the troubles you all are having. Maybe it's are wet winters. We don't have the extended hot summers either.

Eric

[sheeshshe]

Sorry those critters are such a plague to many of you. We have such cold winters here that they don't survive winter. They will survive farther south and some years they actually move this far north, but most years we don't see any. Thankfully.

Big Max pumpkin, Hubbard Squash and Bannana Squash are Cucurbita Maxima. I have never tried Cushaw pumpkin, but that is C mixta.
Butternut is C moschata.

Perhaps you can grow some of these varieties?

mayeb that is the problem. last year our winter was mild. I've never seen them any other summer before, my neighbor had them too. she even had a 20+ foot long blue hubbard squash vine that was just completely lost by them.

IDK what to do. I work so hard for a garden ya know? I hate for it to be ruined by these dumb things!

[sheeshshe]

This
https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/newsletters/hortupdate/2010/jun/tatume.html
is one I'm trying this year. Just recommended to me on another forum and I'm ordering seeds ASAP.

I will use floating row cover until female blossoms appear, I'm going to look for "Tanglefoot" to paint on the vine base, and I'm considering making fake SVB to hang about the garden. I haven't the faintest idea if they're territorial, but I've read that cabbage whites are and hanging fake cabbage whites kept my fall brassicas clear with only 1 Bt spraying.

I'm also going to alternate Bt sprays or spinosad (forgive me, please, I only got 4 summer squash last year from 3 plants and 5 winter squash from 2 plants [stupid SVB ]) every other week, then liquid seaweed or fish emulsion or Medina plus on the alternate weeks. I promise to only spray very early if possible, or when nearly dark, to minimize any hit to the bees (at least as minimal as possible).

I had SVB so bad last year they actually got into the vines at the stem of the trellised spaghetti squash (3 ft off the ground!) and bored right into the fruit. Or at least something that looked just like the SVB grub was in there with frass that looked like SVB frass on the vine. If there's another possibility as to what those were, someone please fill me in on the culprit and how to prevent them.

That's my plan anyway, and here's hoping for some decent squash production this year.

how does the taste compare to the yellow summer squash? I'm picky when it comes to squash, its gotta be a mild flavor, too squashy and I don't like it I like spaghetti and yellow summer. is it mild like those?

[sheeshshe]

squash vine borer, what is your plan of attack

Live as far north on the left coast. I don't think the squash bugs or SVB can swim.

We don't seem to have the troubles you all are having. Maybe it's are wet winters. We don't have the extended hot summers either.

Eric

I'm on the for north, east coast perhaps that is the problem LOL

[hendi_alex]

I've found that if the plants gets some size before vine borers or squash bugs find them, that you can get a good harvest before the bugs cause too much damage. Vine borers have not been much trouble for the past couple of years, and I find that squash bugs are easy to control by hand picking and by squishing their eggs. But, one way to fight these critters is to give the plants a good head start. Take some sheer material or some kind of mesh cap make of screening of some sort. Have the cap large enough to let the plant get at least a foot wide by a foot tall before removing the cap. That gives the plant a good head start at vigorous, bug free growth. After the caps are removed, inspect daily for squash bugs when you see the first evidence of their activity. I've found that if you spray the plant with cool water, the squash bugs will simply sit in sight while you pick them up and squish them or place them in a small container of alcohol to kill them. To me, killing all of the bugs is not an objective. Simply managing the bugs such that the squash give a good sized, prolonged harvest is all that is necessary. With the combined approach of a screened cap followed by hand picking, that objective can easily be met. I also augment this approach with succession planting. Vine borers are active in waves, so one planting might get hit where a slightly later planting gets missed altogether. When my first squash are about half grown and ready to produce, I generally start a second batch of 2-4 plants, protecting them just like with the first planting. When the first plants succumb to pests, disease, or simply get tired, the second batch of plants are just about ready to start producing. Be sure and pull up all spent plants and kill any hiding squash bugs that remain on them. This combined effort should give you a long squash season even in areas were pests and disease are a problem.

[Odd Duck]

how does the taste compare to the yellow summer squash? I'm picky when it comes to squash, its gotta be a mild flavor, too squashy and I don't like it I like spaghetti and yellow summer. is it mild like those?

All I know is what's in the link, it'll be my first time trying them since I just learned about them yesterday. I have very limited space, so I've decided zucchini is out and this is in, since I can send it up the trellis. At least for this year. After I taste it, I'll decide if it's a keeper.

[garden5]

I think I'm going to give foil a try this year as well. I always see holes coming out of the base....but I'm not sure if this isn't from them coming out .

Succession planting is another option, as well.

[hendi_alex]

The adult vine borer is a large black wasp with an orange ring around the lower abdomen. Watch for her to be flying around the garden. She usually stings a hole in the stem several inches up from the base of the plant. The larvae work their way down the stem, and end up feeding near the crown where you will eventually see their droppings and damage. IMO foil around the crown will not help and putting foil up the stems would be too much effort. Like I said, just put a fine mesh blanket over the entire plant. Sheer material from a piece good store would work. It looks like mosquito netting and has a very low price. You just have to make an adjustment to ensure adequate access to the bees in the morning.

[gixxerific]

Hendi I totally agree that you are right (in a perfect world) about the large plant being able to survive.

There's always the but......... But I had some Lady Godiva squash grwoing last year that were huge, very huge. They still died to the combined attack of the SVB and the Squash bugs. I did get a small harvest but not up to the potential it could have been. In fact those plant would send out new shoots while I was pulling the old dead ones. Oh and I must have drowned several thousand squash bugs last year even with all my organic preventive measures. Hopefully we all have a better year this time around.

[hendi_alex]

I should have limited my comments to plants of my experience. I only grow zucchini and yellow crookneck squash. If they are bug free when they are just starting to bloom, then you will likely get at least two or three weeks production from the plant even if later they get attacked by squash bugs and/or vine borers. The greatest threat to these plants for me has been the powdery mildew that the pests spread. I've found treatment with a mild acid to be very effective at controlling the mildew however. Also, the context of the garden is important. I rarely grow more than two or three squash and two or three zucchini at a time. So hand picking squash bugs in that context can be highly effective. None of my strategies work very well on gourds, pumpkin, spaghetti squash, or winter squash. Those with long periods required for fruiting will still likely get killed before any kind of full fruit production, when only using my methods of control.

[sheeshshe]

thinking back about last year, the cucumber beetles and the SVB;s and the mildew etc, what a pain. it is just so darn frustrating when we work SO hard to grow our gardens and it gets taken down by pests and disease. ya know? nothing I can't stand more than working hard for months only for it to be all in vain.... I feel like I need an adequate solution this year. I could do the covering with tulle or something. but I have 3 young kids and I can almost bet you that I wont be out there at the right times of day to cover and uncover for bees etc... IDk what I'll do.

[nielsenec]

SVB lifecycle timing is important for any control effort. U of Kentucky https://www.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef314.asp has good advice on how to time SVB... 950 cooling degree days from a base temperature of 50F with a biofix date of Jan 1st. I use https://www.degreedays.net/# to calculate the current CDD. Basically take the average temperature for a day (best results from hourly data but can use high/low average) and if above 50 degrees, subtract 50. This would be the number of cooling degrees for that day. Add up all CDD's from January 1st. Using this calculator, I am currently at 720 degree days! At the current rate (about 20 degrees per day) I am looking at another 2-3 weeks before I start looking for the SVB moths. My summer squash have been in the ground about 3 weeks and have about 6-8 leaves...getting ready to vine soon.
I'm going to try shaving cream on the vines and probably some sevin if there are a lot of moths in my yellow traps.

[rainbowgardener]

Well I tried pretty hard last year - grew them under row cover the whole time until mid-June-ish, wrapped tinfoil around the base of the stem from below ground for 6 inches or so. It slowed the SVB's down enough that I actually did get to harvest some zucchini's, but eventually they won and the plant bit the dust anyway.

So this year I'm just growing acorn squash, which theoretically they don't like. We will see if that is true. It's not the same as zucchini though. I really would like to grow zucchini, but it just doesn't seem to be possible here. My next door neighbor lost her zuke plants to the SVB's also.

[garden5]

When it comes to garden pests, we do what we can and then hope for the best.

Alex's post back on page 2 confirms what I had originally suspected: the holes at the base are the bugs exiting the plant...this would make the foil of null effect.

I guess total containment is really the surest bet, but that's not always practical.

RB, I'll bet the reason your plants got hit even though they were contained is that the adult moth emerges from the ground.....a couple probably emerged under the covering, thus being trapped IN with the plants .

Oh well, better luck this year every one .

[runfox]

Last year I lost my Zucchini, Yellow squash and Cucumbers to squash vine borer. So this March when I planted, I moved things around. I planted my squash and zucchini where, my tomatoes were and planted my tomatoes in the back of my garden. So far I have lots of yellow flowers on my squash , my zucchini, and my cucumbers, and no signs of the SVB. I may get hit yet but right now I have fruit setting and I'm watching, so far so good.

[tedln]

I'm going to take my tennis racquet to the garden and practice my back hand stroke on the SVB moths. I understand it is the best defense developed to date. Covering with row cover last year worked well, but is a bit of a pain in the posterior to lift daily for hand pollination and harvest.

Ted

[Tate]

I am growing 2 borer resistant varieties this year - tatume and seminole. Supposedly the vines are thick and long enough with multiple rootings that the borer can't kill them if it gets in the stem. Will see what happens.

I am growing the regular squash and zucchini as well and mulching over the stems and applying an organic pyrethrin occasionally to the stem area.

Tate

[tedln]

Along with my normal crook neck, yellow squash (the plants will be lost to SVB's), I am also growing Cornell Delicata winter squash. The winter squash is similar in nature to the Seminole and Tatume, but grows as a semi bush. Those types supposedly do not have hollow stems like the summer squash and are not attractive to the SVB's. The Delicata also can be eaten at any stage of development. I intend to allow mine to develop fully and then enjoy them through the winter. They are sometimes called "Sweet Potato" squash because the flesh cooks and tastes much like a sweet potato. The Cornell variety is also open pollinated and mature seed can be saved and used for the next years garden.

Ted

[Tate]

Thanks for the info Ted! I was not aware of that variety - Cornell Delicata. That will be going on my list of things to try along with Tatume and Seminole. I know my kids are going to flip when they see the Seminole pumpkins assuming my plan works with as expected. I have read the Tatume is better to eat smaller so I probably won't let them get too big.

Tate

[Lord Phat]

Last year I was able to save one of my two squash plants from Cucumber beetles but I think it was luck rather than skill. I picked them all off and sprayed both plants with a solution of minced garlic and cayenne pepper. The bugs were gone but one had already got infected with the wilt and bit the dust.