Price of veggies

[gardenvt]

My point about unhealthy food (fast food kids meals) was that it should be cheaper to make those same burgers at home.

Unhealthy food consists of chips, packaged foods, canned foods, junk food, etc. It is cheaper to buy this junk than buy healthy food that includes vegetables, legumes, whole grains, fruit, lean meats and fish without all that salt, sugar and saturated & trans fat.

Buying seasonal foods is always less expensive but still much more expensive than junk food.

[garden5]

Where you really start to see your garden pay off is when you look at the prices not only of the "standard/conventional" vegetables, but also of the organic ones. The savings, of course, assume you have an organic garden.

Oh, and FB, your recession garden is aptly named....since by saving so much money you are not putting as much into the economy...so you are continuing the recession :p. However, you are also benefiting the environment...as well as your wallet .

[cynthia_h]

by saving so much money you are not putting as much into the economy...so you are continuing the recession

Au contraire: this frugal approach frees him up to spend his saved money elsewhere, perhaps for other necessities he couldn't afford previously. Or perhaps for a few discretionary items. In any case, "charity begins at home," and if we can't be charitable to ourselves, who can we help???

Gardening benefits us, pollinators, subterranean life forms, and an entire web of life. It's much greater than simply saving money on veggies, although that's the most direct and--for many--needed benefit. Organic veggies are still very expensive and, when available, may not be the varieties we prefer. "Growing your own" ensures that the veggies/herbs/fruit will be as organic as you can deal with *and* the varieties you prefer.

Cynthia

[rootsy]

Why are prices so high? Inflation, quantitative easing, so on and so forth... all devaluation of the dollar which equals decreased purchasing power for the same currency...

[gardenvt]

For me, gardening is my way of ensuring that our produce is grown in the healthiest possible way. I also buy local and preferably from an organic farm. Cooking from scratch takes time but our meals are healthier than pre-cooked deli, restaurant or packaged goods.

I find local, organic meats are too expensive. I can't imagine eating a 10-12# turkey that costs $60 or a small chicken at $10-15. I'm sure it is the best around but I can't bring myself to pay that much.

I don't believe that everything organic is necessarily healthy. There are a lot of organic packaged/canned/baked foods that contain lots of sugar, salt and unhealthy fats.

In the summer, we really enjoy eating from our garden. Each year we add more varieties and put up the harvest by freezing or dehydrating. We also enjoy our local farmstands (I find the Farmers Markets too expensive) where the produce is fresh, there are offerings of local maple syrup or honey and the opportunity to try new veggies before we plant them in our garden.

Last year, we found chioggia beets, new eggplant varieties, cucumbers & peppers that we will grow in our garden this year. Buying fresh onions, shallots and leeks (at prices lower than the grocery store) helped me decide that I needed to grow them as well. We also grow a nice variety of herbs which is wonderful since we don't use salt.

All that said, I'm hoping for a good gardening year and keeping more of the change for other good things.

[gumbo2176]

gardenvt, I could have written that post. I too cook for my family and just about all of the food I cook is from scratch. I use as much of my own produce and supplement it with stuff from roadside stands or the local market when needed. Two of our local markets sell produce grown here in our area and that is my choice when available.

My wife and I were in Whole Foods the other day since I got a $25 gift certificate from our son. I picked up a "free range" chicken and it was only $18 and change for a 5 lb. bird---------I think not!!! We stuck mainly to the fruit and produce section followed by the rice, quinoa, and a couple other whole grains. By checkout time, it came to just over $41 for 1 paper sack of food. I'm not completely sold on the whole organic thing either, but I know there are others here that have bought into it lock stock and barrel----and that is their choice.

I have expanded my garden a bit the past 2 years and did so again this year by one more row. I'm running out of yard at this point so it is now as large as my back yard can accommodate. I'm now waiting for my youngest to finish college, put the house up for sale and head to the country. I just hope my health is as good as it is now since I'll be close to 60 by the time that happens.

[DoubleDogFarm]

I'm now waiting for my youngest to finish college, put the house up for sale and head to the country.

Make sure you have the lock, stock, barrel and dry powder. You may need it.


Eric

[gumbo2176]

Gumbo, we'd welcome you with open arms here in Texas! Shall I start looking for a small acreage with a livable house nearby? You would make a great neighbor!

I have 2 sisters that moved to "Yikes" Oklahoma and have been there for just over 2 years now. One is already tired of the much colder winters than we experience here in SE La. I only put in the Yikes since I know of the great football rivalry between Texas and Oklahoma, nothing against the state.

I know some folks that live out in the Texas Hill Country and one of these days I'll saddle up the bike and head that way for a visit. I have an open invitation from them since I'm good friends with one of their brothers here in New Orleans and have partied with them on several occasions.

I really haven't made up my mind exactly where I'd like to go. I'm thinking somewhere with 4 seasons, maybe the occasional snowfall but not all winter long. I do find as I get a little older, I'm so much less tolerant of the heat and humidity of the deep south as I work in the summer around the house and yard. Then again, I know older folks (late 70's and up) that seem to love the heat as their bodies age.

Never the less, I do have 2-3 years before I can think of making that move anyway. My daughter----stepdaughter actually---is in her second year now and will likely be in college for another 2+ years before finding a job, then there's the whole selling the house thing to deal with when the time comes.

Research, research, research since I'm not too concerned with Location, Location, Location besides it being rural with a nice piece of property and a move in house.

[cynthia_h]

Eric, that's all well and good, but here's a question for you:

What percentage of a typical Latin American country's income is produced by exporting food?

Answer: in Ecuador's case, at least 85% (much of it from bananas and broccoli, although we also export our fair share of other tropical fruits).

On the upside, my country is also food-sovereign (meaning that if we stopped importing all food tomorrow, we wouldn't starve, the variety would simply be less), which is more than can be said for many other countries in the world - the US and Canada included.

Cynthia: if only the US would adopt the Latin American subsidy model - here, the government subsidizes the staple crops: rice, potatoes, quinoa, tomato (tree and slicing), oats and barley. ... There's also a new program starting up to encourage mixed cropping of traditional varieties as well - which bodes well for my favourite tubers (Mashua, Ullcu, and Melloco). Additionally, it's actually unconstitutional to do anything agriculturally that would threaten the food soveriegnty of the country. This is generally interpreted as anything that would hurt family farms or increase exports beyond their current levels.

Re. subsidies--these go from horticultural and agricultural practice to politics in a nanosecond and I'm afraid that's beyond what we can discuss on the boards here at THG. But I will say that, if it is a national goal to improve nutritional standards of *all* citizens, then the political will must be found to do so, in whatever way seems best. And that may in fact *not* be subsidies; I really don't know.

Re. veggie prices--here I have some hard data! The storm (high winds--45 to 50 mph gusts, or approx. 72 to 80 kph and heavy rain) has definitely brought on thoughts of soup. Ever since an epic ice storm when I was in college in Atlanta, and without power for five days--but able to cook b/c I had a gas stove!--I have absolutely INSISTED on having a gas stove in my apartment/house, no matter where I am, Atlanta or California.

So, having purchased Brussels sprouts on special last week at $1.29/lb due to a Brussels sprouts soup recipe in Bro. Victor-Antoine d'Avila-LaTourette's cookbook, I went forth just as it was getting full dark today in quest of potatoes, onions, and other soup necessities.

And what did my delighted eyes see at my local produce store?! Amazing stuff!

Pete (the owner) had put on special--the boxes outside the front of the shop--absolutely HUGE Yukon Gold potatoes. These big boys weigh approx. 12 oz. each, and Pete was selling them for 19¢/lb. Yes, that's about 14¢ each. I'll need two of them for the Brussels sprouts soup. And yellow onions were 69¢/lb; I purchased four, two of which were for this same soup. I make my own chicken stock, and the milk (from a locally owned and operated dairy) was $2.79/half gallon.

So I'll end up with my 4-liter Dutch oven full of soup, having spent $1.29 + $0.28 + $0.69 + $0.70 (milk) and a trifling amount for the seasonings already on hand and the chicken stock. $2.96 for dinner for four isn't bad! (Two people, two evenings.)

But of course this very discussion thread began with the mention of beets. So I thought I'd make whole-beet borscht, too, and find out its current cost in mid-February in a pretty good growing region for the vegetable.

Whole beets in bunches were $2.89 at Pete's shop. This seems to have been recognized as a good price, because at 6:00 there were only about 6 bunches left. The one I selected has five medium-sized beets with no splits and firm tails, good leaves. Loose beets, with no leaves, were $1.69/lb, and I purchased three in case I made a double batch. My regular recipe is based on four beets; now I had eight! I have red chard growing in the boxes, so if I want more leaves, I'll just cut some off the chard plants. Two of those 69¢/lb onions will go into the borscht, as will two more of the giant Yukon Golds for $0.28. Again, chicken stock, lemon juice (gift from a friend with a tree), and dill (gift from the garden right before the whole plant went to seed). Then I'll serve it with sliced hard-boiled egg and a plop of yogurt.

What did I spend altogether tonight for soup ingredients and milk?
1 bunch beets $2.89
loose beets $1.69/lb
yellow onions $0.69/lb
Yukon Gold potatoes $0.19/lb
2% Clover milk 1/2 gallon $2.79

Total was $9.83. I'll make two pots of soup tomorrow. I won't have to make new food until the weekend, at least! And in one of the grocery store circulars that came in today's mail, I see that 3-lb cabbage is on special for 99¢ through next Tuesday, so I'll start thinking about that and working it into my brain. My own cabbage never headed, so I can't do the "grow your own sauerkraut" experiment we had started here. Maybe I'll purchase cabbage and try it anyway. At this price, why not?

These are the prices I'm more used to seeing, which is why the $6/lb arugula struck me as way off base (earlier in this thread).

Cynthia

[Gary350]

I do not buy organic food in the grocery store. Just because it is marked organic does not mean it really is. I see stuff on TV news all the time and read on the internet organic is not really organic they can still use pesticides and herbicides and call it organic. Why pay extra for nothing.

I am lookng to buy a place with more land so I can grow more food in a much larger garden. I will have to buy a smaller house to get the land I want.

Now that I am retired and have no money coming in I have to watch my pennies. Gas is $3 a gallon so I ride my bicycle and the exercise has made me feel 15 years younger.

[garden5]

I just saw that one store near me has habanero peppers at $6.49 lb .

[DeborahL]

Organics from the store aren't really organic? This upsets me because I get organics for my rabbits.

[cynthia_h]

Organics from the store aren't really organic? This upsets me because I get organics for my rabbits.

There was a TV spot maybe four or five months ago about Whole Foods' frozen organic veggies, many of which come from...China. Given recent experiences in the U.S. and other countries with foodstuffs from China (the 2007 pet-food melamine poisoning disaster, milk powder adulteration in New Zealand and Australia as well as China for which at least one Chinese executive was executed, the excessive lead in toys and candy on repeated occasions, etc.), it's hard to believe that Whole Foods has examined the entire "pipeline" for these frozen veggies from China and found them to be organic.

If you're concerned about what you're purchasing for your bunnies, talk to the owner/manager of the store you purchase from. *Ask* what examinations/inspections/certifications they themselves have performed to ensure that the line of supply is clean. They may see you as a little obsessive, but after a while you get used to that.

Just explain about the bunnies; tell him/her that the bunnies are your babies, that their life expectancies are already much too short just because they're rabbits, and you're doing everything you can to help them live as long as possible and be as healthy as possible during that all-too-short life. Most people have a soft spot for pets, although you might run up against someone who thinks the best use of organically fed bunnies is Hasenpfeffer.

The produce store I so often refer to sometimes gets organic produce when there's a "deal" at the wholesale produce market (at the Port of Oakland), and when it's organic, Pete labels it as such. Most of his produce is least-toxic or transitionally grown, esp. that grown in the U.S. or Canada.

One reason I'm hesitant to purchase out-of-season tomatoes, peppers, etc. from south of our border is transit time. Even when it's not totally organic, Pete's produce is always, absolutely always, FRESH. His truck goes to the Port Market on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, arriving at the shop approx. 8:30 or 9:00 a.m. If a "heavy cooking holiday" (e.g., Thanksgiving, Christmas, Superbowl) is coming up, he makes an extra run the day before the holiday. (I think this is because, several years ago, I made a small scene about Nick & Pete--Nick was the father, but passed away August 2009--running out of Brussels sprouts by ONE O'CLOCK the day before Thanksgiving!)

I'll take FRESH over organic, if it's something I cannot grow. But this is yet another reason to buy IN-SEASON produce: it hasn't had to be forced with fertilizers, immunized with insecticides, or protected by any other possibly pestilential products to survive at a time wholly contrary to its nature, *and* it hasn't had to fly/float in from half a world away.

Cynthia

[kgall]

Price aside...Most of the produce this time of year has no flavor! The tomatoes are still mostly green and from there they are mush. Ugh! I can't wait for summer!

[cynthia_h]

kgall, maybe you just looked at the last post on this thread? Please read the whole thread; it encompasses in-season produce, too. Tomatoes at this time of year, esp. in the northern United States, are many, MANY months off cycle. They will definitely be "shippers" and not "eaters"! The traditional winter veggies are the ones to rely on now, even if they don't have expensive marketing campaigns behind them.

Just last night (and the night before), DH and I had Brussels Sprouts soup from Brother Victor Antoine's soup cookbook. Veggies: Brussels sprouts, potatoes, onions. Chicken stock. Powdered thyme, salt. Milk at the end. Incredibly good soup! Made with in-season vegetables.

Earlier this month, I made carrot/potato soup. Also split-pea/potato soup. Recipes based on bulb fennel (finocchio) are good this time of year. Broccoli. Green leafy veggies: chard, esp. Kale. Beets. Mashed rutabaga/potatoes.

Check out the whole thread here; there might be some recipe hints and dinner ideas you can use.

Cynthia

[DeborahL]

Thanks, Cynthia ! I get the greens and things at Henry's Marketplace. The loose produce has organic tags and the carrots in packages say organic. I prefer the carrots with the tops on when I can get them.

[cynthia_h]

Thanks, Cynthia ! I get the greens and things at Henry's Marketplace. The loose produce has organic tags and the carrots in packages say organic. I prefer the carrots with the tops on when I can get them.

Glad to help; just be sure to ask the manager at Henry's if you get nervous about the "organic quality" of the produce. S/he will be happy to answer your questions. If not, well...you'll have your answer, just in another fashion.

The storms of a couple of weeks ago in the growing areas of California have now shown up on Pete's shelves. *sigh* I just went over there to pick up a couple of items we're out of, and cabbage is 99¢/lb! I am soooo glad I picked up the 19-cent Yukon Golds last week. We're having the last two of them as "fancy baked potatoes" for dinner tonight:

2 Yukon Golds: 28¢
Last of the chicken, picked off the bones: 50¢, maybe
Broccoli from the garden: FREE
Sautéed mushrooms ($2.39/lb): $1.00 (splurge)
Shredded cheese (to use up the ends of two different cheeses): ??

So we're under $1 per adult for tonight's dinner. I'll be drinking my usual hot tea with a little milk; DH will probably have a glass of milk ($2.79/half gallon, so 10 oz = 44¢ for his glass of milk, but he earns the lion's share of the $ in this household).

Tomorrow: Cuban Black beans and rice. Pete was specialing red bell peppers @ 88¢/lb today, and his yellow onions are still what they were last week, 69¢/lb. I also have some small leeks in the yard; they never got big, but they'll go fine in Black beans & rice! Garlic already in the kitchen; seasonings on hand; turkey bacon to round out the flavor. Maybe baked apples on the side as an attempt at nutritional balance? (We bought a box of 'em in October from a grower in Graton and have a few left.)

My point in providing this much detail is to perhaps inspire some members to explore the possibility of cooking from scratch (if they don't already), to give others some avenues they might not have already explored, and to provide concrete examples of eating in-season fruits and vegetables, which are the most likely--at all times of the year--to be tasty and the least expensive. That is, if they're fruits/vegs we didn't grow ourselves. If we *did* grow them personally, they will definitely be the most tasty and least expensive!

Cynthia

remembering Ravenwood Ductor ex Tenebris (Vergil), such a sweet, funny, goofy, hard-working, earnest Bernese Mtn. Dog .... 3/27/04 - 2/23/11

[DeborahL]

Wow ! Inspiring ! The soups sound really, really good !

[kgall]

I had read the whole thing...

[cynthia_h]

I had read the whole thing...

Ah. In that case, I was expressing surprise that you would spend hard-earned $ on out-of-season, bound-to-be-disappointing tomatoes.

Even here, in the San Francisco Bay Area, where many might think we have access to everything all the time, I can assure you that the "red" tomatoes in the stores right now aren't a natural, sun-ripened red. They're artificially red, from some or another gas-coloring process. My DH has been very hard to get this message through to, but over a ghastly number of years, when I've flat-out refused to eat tomato slices in the winter ("waste of effort, waste of money"), and he's had to eat the whole tomato, he's finally agreed that they just don't cut it.

For a little acid taste in a winter salad, maybe lime juice or possibly grapefruit wedges? Citrus are in season, at least somewhere in this country, so there's a decent shot at getting good fruit. I don't know what the transportation costs will be from, say, Florida to New England, though.

Pickled beets are also a good source of color and acid taste, esp. if home-pickled. The commercial ones can be a real let-down--very little beet and way too much liquid!

Cynthia

[garden5]

Cynthia....your posts are giving me an appetite! Glad to see that you like the Yukon Golds as well. I've heard that they are actually one of the least popular potatoes .

[soil]

Even here, in the San Francisco Bay Area, where many might think we have access to everything all the time, I can assure you that the "red" tomatoes in the stores right now aren't a natural, sun-ripened red. They're artificially red, from some or another gas-coloring process. My DH has been very hard to get this message through to, but over a ghastly number of years, when I've flat-out refused to eat tomato slices in the winter ("waste of effort, waste of money"), and he's had to eat the whole tomato, he's finally agreed that they just don't cut it.

someone gave me a slice of a store tomato the other day. I nearly gagged the taste was so bitter/bland/boring. I also refuse to eat raw store tomatoes in the winter.

[cynthia_h]

Cynthia....your posts are giving me an appetite! Glad to see that you like the Yukon Golds as well. I've heard that they are actually one of the least popular potatoes .

Yukon Golds an unpopular potato? Wow. Maybe this is your chance to get some on the cheap!

Cold and/or rainy weather has always inspired me to make soups of various kinds. But since 2008, when I was able to garden again (after a 10-year layoff), I focus more on what's in the yard or could be in the yard....

Cynthia

[alaskagold]

I have read this whole thread and shake my head.

The myth of the 30 mile radius is just a way to make most people think they are buying food that was grown in their area. Unless you actually go to the farm that is was grown, most stores and even groups of farmers won't talk about it.

Organic, is not usually organic. Most people do not realize what is put into the fertilizer to keep the bugs and pests away and the fertilizer is usually manure, from pig or chickens that haven't been processed or let sit to become older so they won't damage the plants.

Also meat isn't organic. No matter what it says, if you see big viens of fat or if it has a lot of grissle, you are still eating cow and even buffalo that eats... corn and hay. The easiest way to fatten up a cow is corn, and I bet you it isn't field fed or free roaming either.

You want sticker shock on veggies and fgruit. 5.99 a POUND for apples and oranges. how about 2 peppers for 4 dollars. Lettuce... 2.50 a head and I am talking ice burg. Meat, 4.99 a pound on SALE!

I won't even go into the subsidies for farmers who won't grow anymore. Or oil, I will just make you all angry.

So, if you want to know what I do ... I garden in the summer. I fish a LOT in the summer as well... salmon, trout, pike and halibut is a lifestyle not a choice. I also hunt which freaks out most of the men I know because blood and guts don't bother me. I use most of the animals I kill as well.

fyi the prices are never going to go down. Untill you all realize this, and come to the conclussion that it is you against the world, you may just have to deal with the prices. I hope you all get angry enough to start making your own groups or clusters of garden ready people to trade with.

[rainbowgardener]

There are ways to know where your food comes from and that it is truly organic. Growing your own is of course one. Local small scale farmers markets where you can actually talk to the farmers. CSA farms -- community supported agriculture. I belong to one. The farm is about 20 miles away from me. For $250 total for the season, we get 1% of everything they produce, which turns out to be all the produce 2 of us can eat for the season (during the growing season we don't eat any veggies that don't come from the CSA or our yard) plus a bit to put by. Along with the $250 we are required to contribute 18 hrs through the season of labor, so we are out there several times through the season, we talk to the farmer, we see how everything is grown, where the compost pile is, etc etc. It is strictly organic. You can get organic meat, but it is rare and expensive. I don't worry about it, because I've been a vegetarian for forty years; solves that problem.

[alaskagold]

rainbow, you are lucky. Most, especially those in certain cities, don't have that option.

I have a "you pick' farm in my area, but then again I actually live around farms. but beef is very very expensive as well as most chicken or anything vegetable and fruit related.

I choose to live here, and usually I do not complain about the food, unless it is really bad stuff coming in. But people who live where you are can do something about what they eat, how they eat and so on. it just makes me scratch my head on many things that can be done in your areas compared to where I am.

as for being a vegetarian, I commend you.

[rainbowgardener]

Well, choosing to live in Alaska, you do choose to live pretty remote from a lot of things... lot of gorgeous wilderness though!

There are websites that help you locate CSA's near you, like this:

https://www.localharvest.org/

It says there are 3 CSA's in Palmer, AK, and one each in Clam Gulch, Seward, Ester, Soldatna, and Fairbanks. Don't know if any of those are near you..

According to the map at localharvest, there are CSA's in every state and any where east of the Mississippi, you would never be very far from one.

[alaskagold]

Rainbow, great site!

I think I came off really brash. I apologize. If you have lived up here as long as I have, you see people move up and complain about costs quite often.

[DoubleDogFarm]

I think I came off really brash. I apologize. If you have lived up here as long as I have, you see people move up and complain about costs quite often.

Although I don't agree with everything you mentioned I can understand. I live on an island. Most everything is brought in by the Washington state Ferry system. Living remote has a price.

Our two major grocery stores are owned by the same family. Some of use are fighting back with CSA's, bartering, Farmers Market and co-ops.


Eric