Start to 2011.

[The Mad Hatter]

Well I finished up the framework tonight that holds the sand. We filled the frame half way up with sand, placed a heater in the middle and filled it the rest if the way up. I have my esteemed colleague directing me on the direction to go next.

[img]https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Scooter6512/IMG_20110104_175411.jpg[/img]

Once we had it filled up we thought that it would be a good idea to put a removable top on it, just invade anything should go south with the heater. We wont have any loose sand on the floor either while taking trays in or out.

[img]https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Scooter6512/IMG_20110104_182807.jpg[/img]

Now that we got a top on it my dear Joselyn says "Papa, its brown and ugly ". So off to Menards we go. Not that I minded the brown at all, but her being so the senior employee on the job, giw could I say no? I must admit, she has pretty good taste.

[img]https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Scooter6512/IMG_20110104_183646.jpg[/img]

Top is on and this should help with any spilled dirt and water since I am not known for my grace. The pad is heating up and now it is just a matter if time before the entire bed is nice and warm. I did have to adjustbthe height of the lights. We will see if I need both heaters in the bed it just the one. Right now, I have only one in there and hope that I can keep it that way.

[img]https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Scooter6512/IMG_20110104_184256.jpg[/img]

I hope everyone has enjoyed this so far as much as I have. Up next, as soon as the bed heats up will be to mess around with some cabbage. I plan on starting some in the new bed with the heat and some just under the grow lights.

T.M.H.

[DoubleDogFarm]

TMH,

How are things heating up? I'm wondering with the air gap between the sand and hardboard / linoleom it may not warm up.
You may have to remove the hard top and place the trays right in the sand. Are the waterbed pads water proof?


Eric

[The Mad Hatter]

So far it is heating up pretty well. I do think you are right though about the hard board. It could be warmer without it but I just can't stand the sand on the floor lol. It should be warm enough for them to pop out ok. The test batch of carrots sprouted sometime yesterday so I have some cabbage and peppers on there now. Time will tell on how it does and how I build the next one. The heating mats are sealed as well. That was the first thing I looked at.

T.M.H.

[The Mad Hatter]

Forgot to mention about the air gap. The picture with my daughter playing in the sand the shelf is only half full. I did fill it completely level with the top of the sides before I put the top on. There is quite a bit of sand in there though. Depending on how this first run works out I may pull the top and put the second heater in This help balance the warmth around. Right now it is really nice in the middle and it fades towards the edges.

I suppose that is ok though to as I just lined a long flat and a half flat up in the middle right under the lights anyhow. Guess it really depends on how much you want to load the top up.

[DoubleDogFarm]

TMH,

Good to hear that it's working. I agree, tomatoes and peppers will be the real test. Cabbage not so much.


Just noticed your last post. I would use the cooler edges for cabbage and other cool season starts. I would also add more lights.

Eric

[The Mad Hatter]

I currently have four 6500k bulbs (two fixtures) over each table top. You think I need more than that? The table tops are four foot long by two food wide. The way I have the lights set up now they are just above the domes of the flats. They light up all the top pretty well.

T.M.H.

[DoubleDogFarm]

TMH,

No, your lights look fine. I misunderstood. Went back and looked at your pictures.

I'm pushing off the vegetable starts until the end of the month.

Keep us informed.

Eric

[garden5]

That's looking like a pretty good set-up. One thing I would recommend is that you remove the domes once the seedlings are up. If you do not, it can create too much humidity and the seedlings can get a fungus called "damping-off" which will kill them. They like air circulation once they have sprouted.

[The Mad Hatter]

That's looking like a pretty good set-up. One thing I would recommend is that you remove the domes once the seedlings are up. If you do not, it can create too much humidity and the seedlings can get a fungus called "damping-off" which will kill them. They like air circulation once they have sprouted.

This was one of my next questions as far as the seedlings coming. How far up is up? Are we talking half an inch, one inch? The way I understand it and my experiance fro last year is as soon as they break ground I should be able to move them out of the dome. Is this correct and also do they need to be on thevheat table?
I am thinking once they break the surface they get moved to a normal flat, no dome, no heat table, and two sets of 6500k lights.

Thanks for the compliments. I do appreciate it.

T.M.H.

[wordwiz]

This was one of my next questions as far as the seedlings coming. How far up is up? Are we talking half an inch, one inch? The way I understand it and my experiance fro last year is as soon as they break ground I should be able to move them out of the dome. Is this correct and also do they need to be on thevheat table?
I am thinking once they break the surface they get moved to a normal flat, no dome, no heat table, and two sets of 6500k lights.

That's what I do.

Mike

[The Mad Hatter]

This was one of my next questions as far as the seedlings coming. How far up is up? Are we talking half an inch, one inch? The way I understand it and my experiance fro last year is as soon as they break ground I should be able to move them out of the dome. Is this correct and also do they need to be on thevheat table?
I am thinking once they break the surface they get moved to a normal flat, no dome, no heat table, and two sets of 6500k lights.

That's what I do.

Mike

Excellent. Thanks Mike.

[The Mad Hatter]

Well, its been nearly 24 hours and no activity yet. Heheheh. Wshful thinkng I know. I figured that they may need some encouragement to come on up out of the soil so will be playing a bit fo Skynard for em. Cant go wrong with Skynard.

The heat table is chugging along very nicely though. Seems to be the same temprature today as it was yesterday although there are warm spots and spots that seem to lag a bit.

I did break out the thermometer and verfied that thought. The warmest jiffy pellet was 87 degrees, while the coolest was 78. So, I moved them around to maxamize the temps that I have and when this batch pops their little heads out I will pull the top off of the box and install the second heater. this should keep my temps more balenced.

T.M.H.

[The Mad Hatter]

We have two new additions to the family this morning. Sometime over night two little cabbage guys come popping up out of the jiffy pellets. It must have been the Skynard that I played again last night heheh.

I have to go into work this morning for a while. It will be neat to see if there are any followers to come along during the day. I will pull the two new guys out if Tue dome and place em on a flat on the other table so the are not in the moisture.

Have a great day everyone!

T.M.H.

[garden5]

With heat like that, you should be seeing results in no time at all.

Oh, and to answer your question, you got it exactly right. Up is up and once they are up, you can take the training wheels off and just give them some light.

[The Mad Hatter]

What I can't believe is how addicting this little hobby is for me. Everyday I came home from work and check on the little guys. Have a bit of conversation with em and play a little music for em lol.

T.M.H.

[rainbowgardener]

Yes!!! Isn't it amazing seeing little baby plants pop up where there was only a tiny seed before? I love it.... it's why I grow so many, even though I don't have room to plant them all. It gets me through the winter blahs... in Jan in the dark and cold of winter, I am working with light and little green things and reminding myself that there will be a spring!

[The Mad Hatter]

Well, I got home today from work and another one had sprouted out of his little home. There are two more that are trying their best to make it out. Still no peppers coming yet, but I believe that the peppers take longer to germinate. At least that's what I remember from last year...

T.M.H.

[wordwiz]

Yes!!! Isn't it amazing seeing little baby plants pop up where there was only a tiny seed before? I love it.... it's why I grow so many, even though I don't have room to plant them all. It gets me through the winter blahs... in Jan in the dark and cold of winter, I am working with light and little green things and reminding myself that there will be a spring!

I know what you mean. Walking into a room full of little green plants, bright lights and heat makes me forget about the black snow, cold temps, gloomy days. We need to write to the American Psychiatric Association and tell them the best remedy for SADD is to start plants. A couple of shop grow lights, a few seeds, a couple quarts of potting mix - way cheaper and far more effective than any scrip the doc might write!

Mike

[Dixana]

Just wondering.....is the heat necessary? I started all my plants without heat last year and everything still came up...
Should I have heat? Will things always come up without it or did I just get lucky last year because they were in our sunny bow window with the curtains closed (which kept them hidden from my son AND trapped a lot of warmth?)

Hatter I LOVE the setup! I'm also jealous...

[applestar]

Most seeds will germinate faster with heat -- cabbages in 2 days instead of -- for example, 5~7days, tomatoes in 3 days instead of 7~10 days, etc. Some reluctant peppers can take as much as 3 to 4 weeks without. In the uncertain indoor conditions, including overzealous watering by the doting gardener, the seeds can sometimes rot -- or get dried out at the critical time when they're just germinating -- before they can begin to grow.

Try taking a thermometer reading of your window under the same conditions (and around the same time of the year -- sun exposure, etc.). That'll tell you how warm your seeds were.

Remember, though, that not ALL seeds want the same temperature. I like referring to Johnny's catalog and website optimum germination info for individual vegs and some flowers. I think Territorial has good temp range info too. They go into details like ideal germination soil temp and ideal seedling growth air temp including daytime and night time temps AFTER they are taken off the heating mat. There are other seed catalogs that offer good instructions like that too. They're free (and *somebody* went to a lot of trouble to compile the information) so make good use of them.

When you plant the early spring seeds outside, you'll find out that it takes THEM as much as 2 weeks to germinate. Even though I *know* this, I get so used to the speedy indoor seeds dashing off the starting block, that I get worried and impatient by turns waiting for the direct-sown seeds to grow.

[The Mad Hatter]

The main reason that I built the heat table is that my basement is cold. The air temorearure is between 58 and 64 on average. I have read that peppers for example like the soil to be around 78*.

Last year I started seeds when transplanst should have been going in. They did produce peppers, but it was late and spotty at best. I also had no grow lights. This produced tall plants that were skinny. I believe this to be because they were always reaching for the window where the sun came through in the mornings.

I also did it because I thought it would be a very cool project to tinker with in the winter time. It was super low cost and You can get it all off Craig's list.

I would say that in my own opinion that if you had results from last year that produced good strong plants than that is what I would do this year. As I said before, last year I never had a good place that I could set up and great results, let alone decent results. This year I am confident that I will have very strong and healthy plants.

T.M.H.

[wordwiz]

Hatter,

There is a correlation among light levels, temps, soil (potting mix) moisture and nuits and how they affect seedlings. If you have low temps, and low light levels, water less frequently and do not add many nuits, especially N. The seedlings will grow in proportion. Google 'Jim Faust Daily Light Intensity Greenhouse Levels'. You should get several hits - most of them are well worth reading and saving.

Mike

[The Mad Hatter]

Hatter,

There is a correlation among light levels, temps, soil (potting mix) moisture and nuits and how they affect seedlings. If you have low temps, and low light levels, water less frequently and do not add many nuits, especially N. The seedlings will grow in proportion. Google 'Jim Faust Daily Light Intensity Greenhouse Levels'. You should get several hits - most of them are well worth reading and saving.

Mike

Thanks Mike for the link information. I will have to Google that once I get home from work. This morning I have eleven total tiny little baby cabbage plants. Still no pepper plants though. Apparently the peppers are not a Skynard fan, so I will have to find them something else to listen to. To bad I do not have any "salsa" music lol.

Have a great day everyone! Its beginning to snow here.

T.M.H.

[Dixana]

All this seedling talk is killing me!! It'll be a good month and half before I can/should start seeds. Usually I love winter and spend my free time snowmobiling, but this year the freak warm spell melted all the snow.
I can't even mess around cuz no one is selling seed starter or anything yet!!
*grumble grumble*
I guess I'll just keep perusing the seed catalogs and continue my search for worms while all you lucky ducks in the warmer climates start your babies!

[garden5]

Don't fret over the peppers. Given how well you have heated your tray, you should see results in under a week. By 2 weeks, you should have all of your seedlings up.

What kinds of peppers are you growing?

[The Mad Hatter]

Right now I have Mariachi peppers that I am trying to start. I also will be starting Biker Billy peppers, Big Daddy peppers, Great Stuff peppers, Red Delicious peppers,Costa Rican peppers, Orange Bell II peppers, Fresh Salsa Tomatoes, Porterhouse Tomato, Mailrigolds.

Once it gets warm out I am planting Cherry Bomb II Radishes, Pole Beans, and Cucumbers.

Here is the latest pictukee of my newest arrivals.

[img]https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Scooter6512/107.jpg[/img]

T.M.H.

[garden5]

What kind of plants are those? They don't look much like peppers.

Oh and I'd be careful about using those seed-starters wrapped in the cloth. I've never used them myself, but I've noticed a lot of members here have had bad experiences with them drying out, etc. Be sure to take the cloth off before you plant. From what I've heard.....it takes a long time for it to "boi-degrade."

[rainbowgardener]

yeah, looks like broccoli or cabbage seedlings. Did you start some of those?

[The Mad Hatter]

What kind of plants are those? They don't look much like peppers.

Oh and I'd be careful about using those seed-starters wrapped in the cloth. I've never used them myself, but I've noticed a lot of members here have had bad experiences with them drying out, etc. Be sure to take the cloth off before you plant. From what I've heard.....it takes a long time for it to "boi-degrade."

You are correct on the wrap. I plan on letting them get to about an inch high to two inches the cutting the wrap off and transplanting into my big Dixie cups.

What kind of soil does everyone recommend for the transfer plants? I was thinking about the miracle grow stuff. Any suggestions?

Also, I plan on putting some holes in the bottom of my cups. His many and his large? I was thinking four holes at 1/4"? That should allow enough drainage. You should just spritz with a sprayer from the top correct?

Thanks everyone, and have a great Monday!

T.M.H.

[rainbowgardener]

No, I don't recommend misting seedlings. Creates too much humidity without necessarily getting the soil damp enough. Set your dixie cups in a shallow tray and pour a little water in the bottom of the tray, just like 1/4" deep or so, and let the soil wick it up.

[The Mad Hatter]

yeah, looks like broccoli or cabbage seedlings. Did you start some of those?

Yes, those are cabbage plants. I started the cabbage just as an experiment to make sure that my new table did not get everything to warm and cook the little seeds. So far everything is going very well.

I now have nineteen cabbage plants that have sprouted. I also noticed before I left home for work there is one Mariachi Pepper the is just starting to poke his head out. He will be able to love to the non dome flat when I get home.

T.M.H.

[The Mad Hatter]

No, I don't recommend misting seedlings. Creates too much humidity without necessarily getting the soil damp enough. Set your dixie cups in a shallow tray and pour a little water in the bottom of the tray, just like 1/4" deep or so, and let the soil wick it up.

Excellent. Great advice. Thank you very much.

[Dixana]

Soil for up-potting.....-sigh-
I don't usually like to be this person but, not Miracle Grow! Maybe everyone else can jump in on the evils of Miracle Grow, but there are TONS of other things besides Miracle Grow. And your soil creatures will thank you.
You can purchase organic potting mix, make your own using any number of different formulas.
By the end of summer I shall have proof organic plants grow better and produce more than miracle grow plants!

[The Mad Hatter]

Soil for up-potting.....-sigh-
I don't usually like to be this person but, not Miracle Grow! Maybe everyone else can jump in on the evils of Miracle Grow, but there are TONS of other things besides Miracle Grow. And your soil creatures will thank you.
You can purchase organic potting mix, make your own using any number of different formulas.
By the end of summer I shall have proof organic plants grow better and produce more than miracle grow plants!

Ok, so miracle grow is not any good then? Forgive me for asking but what is wrong with it. Keep in mind that this is only my second year and my first one don't count lol.

Is there another reputable name brand that I chould look for?

T.M.H.

[DoubleDogFarm]

He will be able to love to the non dome flat when I get home.

TMH, I need a translation here.

I still get frustrated when we talk about plastic cups and having to drill holes in them. 4" nursery pots are available by the thousands. FREE! They fit into flats, also free. They nestle together and free from falling over. Did I mention they are free.

Soil for up-potting.....-sigh-
I don't usually like to be this person but, not Miracle Grow! Maybe everyone else can jump in on the evils of Miracle Grow, but there are TONS of other things besides Miracle Grow. And your soil creatures will thank you.
You can purchase organic potting mix, make your own using any number of different formulas.
By the end of summer I shall have proof organic plants grow better and produce more than miracle grow plants!

Dixana, You don't need to hide your feelings or politics from me. Many people here at Helpful Gardener will back you up. You answered the question with your last line.

I will add that it's a Scotts brand product and leave it at that.

Eric

[The Mad Hatter]

Yeah, proof reading is my friend. Or at least it should be. Heheh. Its tough. I do all this from my Droid phone. Big thumbs, small keys, and trying to not get caught goofing off at my desk is a big chore lol.

As for the poring mix, I fuss I don't really mind if it is organic it not. I just need rob find something that is going to get them off to the best start possible. Don't want to stir up a hornets nest lol.

Where are you getting the free four inch pots?

T.M.H.

[DoubleDogFarm]

I get my nursery pots from a local landscaping material yard. They have a nursery pot recycle exchange area.

I would try all the landscapers in your area. Check the local nurseries. Home Depot and Lowe's. Maybe even try at the Farmers Market.

If you see a landscaper, gardener, maintenance crew, stop and ask. keeps the plastic out of the landfills.

Eric

[applestar]

Also, I haven't tried this myself, but I know my county has a hard plastic recycling drop-off area. The description for this area includes plastic nursery pots.

[DoubleDogFarm]

Apple,

sehr gut

Eric

[applestar]

Have you noticed how very educational this forum is?
I'm constantly researching new concepts and even foreign language words!

Domo arigato, Eric.