garden5
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That's really interesting, TZ. The company said they are submitting them to Guinness, so I wonder if they then won't undergo the same rigorous testing that the buts went through.

I'm wondering if you can straighten something out for me, TZ. I read that the bhut jolokia is a naturalized hybrid. What does that mean? Can I save seed from it?

Thanks.

I, too, have read of folks who said they've tasted hotter than the bhut jolokia.

All I can say is it may not be the hottest, but I'm sure its still plenty hot. When I get someone to try one of mine, I'll let you know :llol:.

CS, I've never heard of that one before :idea:. I'll have to check it out.
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csvd87
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All I have to say is watch the chilefoundry video of Darth Naga vs the Naga Viper... painful.

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Hybrid is a word of many meanings. In botany it refers to a genetic mix of two different species, but in horticulture it refers to a named first generation cross of two stabilized named varieties of the same species. You can cross Jalapeno "Grande" with Jalapeno "Macho" and get a hybrid jalapeno (maybe larger or better production than either parent). You can cross a jalapeno with a bell pepper and get a hybrid. In both cases they are horticultural hybrids because the are all the same species, Capsicum annuum, but after the first generation they are usually not called hybrids any longer, at least not without some sort of modifier identifying the generation.

Bhut Jolokia and the similar Dorset Naga, (and others) are a botanical hybrid, having genes identifiable from both Capsicum chinensis (Habanero types), and Capsicum frutescense (Tabasco type). Because of its origin, Bhut Jolokia and all of its descendants will always be that type of hybrid. It is also a stabilized true breeding homozygous variety, so it is not a horticultural variety.

If you cross a Bhut Jolokia with a Dorset Naga (both are true breeding varieties) you will get a horticultural hybrid that will also be a botanical hybrid.

I suspect that the Trinidadian ultra hots and others are also botanical hybrids related to the Bhut because Indians emigrated throughout the British empire and would have moved their favorite foods around with them.

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TZ, So I guess what you are saying is that they may have been a hybrid(and unstable one, like we commonly think of hybrid tomatoes) a long time ago, but is has since stabilized out and, although it still possess traits from different varieties, it will still breed true.

I guess that means I can save seed from it :D.

CS, which one was hotter in the video, the Darth Naga or the Naga Viper (can't load it right now :?).
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TZ -OH6
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Correct. Usually, if something has a name it is stable, especially if it has been around a while, but over the past few years the pepper gardeners have been naming whatever new pops up in their garden (and trading them around). And alot of new things pop up because peppers cross pollinate easily...a big problem when you are growing 15 differnt pepper varieties next to each other.

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darth naga is the guy eating the peppers :)

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Sometimes I can even find supporting evidence for my ramblings :D


https://www.chilefoundry.co.uk/2010/10/24/the-tale-of-the-cornish-naga/

This year's first record

https://www.chilefoundry.co.uk/2010/04/01/fire-foods-day-in-the-sun-p-s-its-no-april-fool/

This year's second record

https://sify.com/news/world-s-hottest-chilli-is-hot-enough-to-strip-paint-news-international-kkvnOcjidjf.html

Next year's record

https://swns.com/the-red-hot-chilli-pepper-with-a-world-beating-kick-221541.html

IIRC the Indian agricultural company that developed the bhut jolokia tested it even higher than NMSU (over 1,100,000, but people don't use that number for comparison)



I'm on dialup so I don't get to watch as many U-tube videos of self inflicted pain as I would like. I'll keep trying to download the Darth Naga guy.

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csvd87 wrote:All I have to say is watch the chilefoundry video of Darth Naga vs the Naga Viper... painful.
Well, I don't know why I found so much humor in this . :lol: . . If that pepper was 10% as hot as I suspect it was, he handled it much, much better than I would have!

No, pain isn't a flavor. I have had serious trouble with a very hot jalapeño like Mucho Nacho. Tiny, little Thai Hots have brutalized me :oops:.

One of these days I will get up the courage to make my own fermented chili sauce so that I can have a little more control of the HEAT added to my meals, drop by drop.

Anyway, if you want to have a laugh at this guy's expense, [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzkASRiqywk//url]here's the video on YouTube.[/url] Oh, and I suggest that you do as I did -- leave the audio OFF!

Steve

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Yesterday, I saved seeds from Habaneros and HBC II's. I didn't wear gloves; my hands are garden tough and may sting a bit, but not painfully so. I washed my hands thoroughly afterwards.

An hour later, I rubbed one of my eyelids, and it instantly started stinging like crazy. I washed my hands again, this time making certain I scrubbed them hard.

An hour later, I scratched next to my eye, and once again, it stung like crazy. I washed my hands a third time, almost rubbing them raw, wondering whether I would ever get rid of the Habanero juice.

I went outside, did some clean-up gardening. Some sweat ran into my eyes, and I was literally blind. I couldn't open my eyes without suffering extreme anguish. I groped my way into the house and rinsed out my eyes. This was getting too weird for words.

Then I remembered a hyperlink about air-drying peppers that Garden5 posted in another thread. The author had said to make sure the drying room was well-ventilated. In a house as tiny as mine, you take whatever room you can get for projects. The peppers are all drying underneath my fluorescent light. Most of them are sharing a heating pad with several cuttings I am trying to grow. I suspect that until those peppers dry out, I will have to be very careful not to touch my eyes.

This may sound crazy, but I am convinced that room is filled with invisible hot-pepper oil. If it's this bad with Habaneros, imagine how it would be with those new super peppers.

Next year, I will sun-dry my peppers, granted that they mature while it's still warm enough outside :shock:
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If you have a gas oven, the pilot light might be enough, but not too warm to kill the seeds. Check with a thermometer first.

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My oven is electric. However, you might be on to something. I think the lowest temperature on my oven is 175. Could I put them on cookie sheets in the oven? I really want to experiment with Gary350's chile powder. However, I worry that one of my dogs is being made sick by the fumes. He's been on daily doses of Pepcid AC since I brought these peppers in the house. He has a chancy digestive system, anyway, so it could be something else, but I do wonder.
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I would like to grow some of those.They would be handy to take hunting for starting camp fires. :lol:
I started with nothing and still have most of it!!!

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Before I got my dehydrator (which operates in the bathroom over night with the exhaust fan on) I had no problem air drying cut open peppers (mostly Habaneros) either during winter in Ohio, or the summer in Southern California. I would lay the pieces out on the white plastic "eggcrate" light diffuser pannels. It takes 3-4 days, and the odor is not overwhelming due to the relatively low temprature. Snow and static electricity mean very low humidity.

If you want a way to add a controlled amount of heat to food in a fairly "flavor neutral" way (without adding the hotsauce flavor) try this recipe.

Equal parts
Dried powdered Habanero or similar type pepper (I remove seeds before drying), onion powder, garlic powder, and powdered salt (put the salt in the grinder-coffee mill).

The powdered salt will not separate from the other ingredients the way granules will, and instantly brings out the flavors of the other ingredients without adding noticable salt to the food.

This is especially good on cheesy dishes (Pizza, Mac and Cheese), and will add a couple of alarms to a bowl of chili.

The only danger is in sifting the pepper powder (do in a well ventilated area).

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TZ -OH6 wrote:. . .
If you want a way to add a controlled amount of heat to food in a fairly "flavor neutral" way (without adding the hotsauce flavor) try this recipe.

Equal parts
Dried powdered Habanero or similar type pepper (I remove seeds before drying), onion powder, garlic powder, and powdered salt (put the salt in the grinder-coffee mill).

The powdered salt will not separate from the other ingredients the way granules will, and instantly brings out the flavors of the other ingredients without adding noticable salt to the food.

This is especially good on cheesy dishes (Pizza, Mac and Cheese), and will add a couple of alarms to a bowl of chili.

The only danger is in sifting the pepper powder (do in a well ventilated area).
Interesting! I got DW a dehydrator for her birthday. She claimed that apple chips were her favorite snack but she is yet to use that machine . . . :roll:

Lots of peppers and onions around here right now! The hot peppers are in the process of air drying. I wonder if I can do onions . . .

Dad grew up in New Mexico. Pepper sauce was always on hand at the table. I grew up on a little farm with a couple of milk cows. Now, I'm a little lactose intolerant but still get away with sour cream on hot dishes and there's always yogurt in the fridge.

Capsaicin is "lipophilic," I read. That means it diffuses in fats. That's why sour cream and (whole) milk diffuses some of the heat :wink: . Here's a little more about it from [url=https://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/features/capsaicin.shtml]Frostburg State University.[/url] Scroll down to near the bottom of the page. References to academic research are also given.

Steve

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TZ, great links. I'm looking forward to the results of the naga hari. Do post them if you find out before I do.

You said that if a pepper variety is named, it is most likely stable. I've seen many tomato F1 hybrids that are named, so is it different, then, with peppers?

Also, I'm noticing more peppers in the catalogs that are F1, so perhaps the trend is changing :?.

Stella, what that could have been from is when the sweat ran into your eye, it had some oils with it that were there from when you had touched your eye earlier.

TZ, great recipe. That does sound great with a pizza! Now I'm hungry!
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Its hard to be concise and brief at the same time.

F1 hybrids (from two stable OP varieties) are consistent seed to seed, so they can carry a name, but it can't be (shouldn't be) passed on to their offspring because the offspring will all be different from each other to a lesser or greater extent.

Commercial seed packs should either have nothing but the name (e.g Brandywine) for a stable open pollinated variety, or the name plus 'F1' or 'hybrid' along with it (Brandyboy F1). But independent seed sources (aka some guy on the internet) might just do whatever he pleases.

An exception to this is for hybrids that have been "stabilized" or "dehybridized" where plants from the offspring generation have been selected for similarities to the original hybrid generation after generation until they are a stable OP variety. This is usually for flavor and looks. Some productivity and disease resistances might be lost because they are more difficult to identify.



A note on the dehydrated apples: some of our stores load up on several unusual varieties from the local orchards this time of year. Each variety has its own distinctive flavor, so if you are going to do some dehydrating, do a lot of it now rather than piddling around with red and golden delicious in the off season. If you don't wash the trays you might get a little surprise pepper juice onto your apples, which is much better than onion or garlic residue.

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Thanks a lot, TZ, for clarifying everything. I never mind a long post since it usually means I learn more :). So, to affirm my understanding, if a variety is named, it can be duplicated....either through seed carryover or through crossing of two varieties.

Thanks for the insightful post.
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Garden5, one thing I learned this year is that, like any other product, a seed can be named similarly to a popular variety. For example, there are peppers named Big Chile, Big Chili, Big Chili Hybrid, Biggie Chile, Big Chile Hybrid, Big Chile II, Hybrid Big Chile II, and so on. The names vary dependent upon the company offering the seed, but none are the same pepper. The consumers think they are getting the kind they grew before when in fact they are getting whatever that company chose to call its particular large Anaheim type.

I've seen this in grocery stores, too: a one-letter difference between names of a popular product and a knock-off packaged similarly. I hadn't noticed it before in seeds, but those lists we had of pepper varieties in another thread were a real eye-opener :shock:
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Your so right, Stella. I, too, have noticed how even a one letter difference can mean two different varieties. When ordering varieties, it's important to make certain that what you are ordering is exactly what you want.

There was a solid frost, but my bhut jolokias were under buckets, so I brought them in the next morning. Some of the leaves died, but I'm still hopeful that the plants themselves will still make it.
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Here's an article from some Australian guys claiming a new world's hottest pepper. They call it the Trinidad Scorpion Butch T. They say the previous world's hottest was Naga Viper at 1.38 million scovilles and the Scorpion Butch is 1.46 million.

https://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20110412/od_yblog_upshot/new-chili-pepper-crowned-worlds-hottest

Personally I think all of that stuff is weapons grade and I won't have it in my garden! But I thought people might be interested.
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They must have finally got one right, from what I understand the Butch T Scorp has been around for a while now. The Naga Viper was an unstable cross of 3 of the hottest.

I have 4 different strains of the Bhut Jolokia growing, don't really know why, except 2 of them were free seed bonuses. I can barely handle the heat of a raw Jalapeno, but I'm getting there, banana peppers on pizza use to destroy me. So its all about building up a tolerance.

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