Frankenchile

[stella1751]

Because the forecast low for tonight is 33 and because my place has been known to run 8-9 degrees below the recorded temperature for my area, I have decided to unveil Frankenchile. Perhaps the last of its kind, grown from the original Gurney's Hybrid Big Chile II seeds, the pepper I have nicknamed Frankenchile because of its rather odd history (see Sheeshshe's "What Is Wrong with My Jalapenos" thread, page 6), continues to surprise me. Now at over 9" long and still growing, I had hoped to have at least another three weeks for it to achieve its full potential. Yes, I'll cover it tonight. Just in case, I decided to post its pre-freeze photos:

[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/40600009.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/40600001.jpg[/img]

Ted, I'm going to do my best to get you those seeds I promised you! This is one extraordinary pepper. (No, I still haven't tasted it yet.)

[garden5]

Wow, now that's a big chili! My Thai peppers are topping out at about 3-4 in. long, so far......but then again, I don't know if you could technically call them chili peppers. I am pretty certain that the chili peppers are not as hot as these Thai peppers.

Now that I think about it, the larger peppers usually aren't the super-hot ones, so you may not get a ton of heat out of your chilies. Do post the taste results anyway, though .

[csvd87]

those look awesome, got my anaheim's beat

[stella1751]

I just checked the updated forecast. The cold front appears to be moving through quickly. Instead of the forecast high of 70 for today, we reached 65. Accordingly, the new forecast low for tonight is 38. Yay

I seriously think Frankenchile is a competition pepper. The world's record is 12". I think this one will go at least 10", but who can tell? It got this big, even with being set out on June 16 in one of the coldest summers I can remember up here. I can't imagine what it could do, elsewhere, in pepper country.

Our State Fair is held in July. Go figure. If it makes it through tonight, I'm gonna see whether or not there's someplace I can enter this puppy. I've grown a lot of peppers, but never anything like this one!

[Hispoptart]

Nice looking pepper, our state fair is in July also, REALLY?? do they think our gardens are done by then? I think it more about the live stock then anything else.

[csvd87]

stella, you may be interested in this

[url]https://www.totallytomato.com/dp.asp?c=36&P={DA20FE48-1C43-4504-8F54-15E376F56269}[/url]

Oh, I measured my Anaheim, its only at 6", but the plant is small, only in about a 2 gallon pot, hopefully my sweet cayenne will get to full length, supposed to get to 12" it is just producing now since it was fighting certain death all summer, I just about picked every leaf off of it and it bounce right back.

[stella1751]

stella, you may be interested in this

[url]https://www.totallytomato.com/dp.asp?c=36&P={DA20FE48-1C43-4504-8F54-15E376F56269}[/url]

Oh, I measured my Anaheim, its only at 6", but the plant is small, only in about a 2 gallon pot, hopefully my sweet cayenne will get to full length, supposed to get to 12" it is just producing now since it was fighting certain death all summer, I just about picked every leaf off of it and it bounce right back.

Here's another one, csvd87: [url]https://gurneys.com/product.asp?pn=74063&bhcd2=1283515378[/url]

When I was trying to find the same seed, early this season, because I liked the way this one was shaping up, I came across many websites like this one. Everyone was trying to improve on the original, which made me wonder why the original had been discontinued. Scroll down on this webpage to see the comment left by a customer. She says she prefers the first Hybrid Big Chile II, writing, "I am hoping to find the originals somewhere."

I must get some seeds from this plant, which may be the last of its kind. Who else would buy seed and leave it setting around for 6 to 10 years?

The temperature outside right now is 34. It's too dark to tell whether my Frankenchilies made it, but I think they did. There's only a slight frost on my car's windshield. The long-range forecast is for 3 days of warm temperatures and then, on Monday, another dangerously cold day. I suspect this is the way it will be for the rest of the season.

[Hispoptart]

Stella, did you cover your plants last night?

[stella1751]

Stella, did you cover your plants last night?

Yes. It's early to tell, but I think they made it. You know how the leaves get moist when they suffer a little frost, and you don't know whether or not they made it until the sun comes out later in the day? Sometimes they rebound; sometimes they droop and never recover. Well, I just removed Frankenchile's covers, and that's what it looks like: a slight sheen of moisture on all of its leaves, slightly droopy, but upright. We definitely dropped below freezing last night in my back yard.

I'll know for sure sometime this afternoon whether or not they made it.

While I was out there, I measured the bottom one. It's ten inches long! If it isn't done growing, I may get an 11" pepper, and that during one of the shortest growing seasons I've ever seen in this country.

Next year, I'm going for the record! According to [url=https://www.chilepepperinstitute.org/files/tiny_mce/file_manager/for_kids/the-story-of-chile-peppers.pdf]The Chile Pepper Institute,[/url] "NuMex Big Jim is in the Guinness Book of World Records for the longest chile pepper ever grown at 13.5 inches long."

Only 4" to go!

[applestar]

Did we talk about digging it up and potting it -- bringing it inside? Hot Peppers are usually perennial in mild winter areas. Are you only growing one plant?
(Sorry I don't remember the details from the other thread....)

After harvesting, you can also try cutting it WAAAY back if you don't have the room, and keeping it alive but as a dormant plant.

[stella1751]

Did we talk about digging it up and potting it -- bringing it inside? Hot Peppers are usually perennial in mild winter areas. Are you only growing one plant?
(Sorry I don't remember the details from the other thread....)

After harvesting, you can also try cutting it WAAAY back if you don't have the room, and keeping it alive but as a dormant plant.

We did, Applestar, but I don't know how well that would work with this plant. It's already over 3' tall. Even if I chopped it down a third of the way, that would mean bringing a 2' tall, bushy plant into my home.

Then again, that pack of seeds promised a quantity of 25. I used five and got two freaks. These might be the last of the original Hybrid Big Chile II seeds left, so it would make sense to over-winter the plants.

What if I put it in the basement? My unfinished basement stays about 50 degrees through the winter. There is very little light, but I could set up my fluorescent light on it. Would it go dormant but still live?

I've been thinking about next year. I don't think I'll grow any peppers but the originals and the second generations, if I can save viable seeds. That way, I'll have a better chance of reproducing a Hybrid Big Chile II. Right now, Frankenchile is in close proximity to Big Jim, Fish, Super Chile, and a variety of Habaneros. Because it was the last to bloom, there's a good chance its flower was pollinated by one of the foregoing varieties, which means I could wind up with something really weird next year.

If I could take those three originals into the basement, I would be a step ahead in making certain I don't get some unfortunate pollination in the spring. What do you think? Will it survive under the above-described conditions?

[garden5]

I'm eager to learn more about "dormant peppers." Does this mean keeping them in the warm indoors, but with only a little light (I.e. no fluorescents)? Are you saying that, while inside waiting for next spring, they will neither grow nor die...just sit there and be decor for the room til spring?

Thanks for any elaboration.

[csvd87]

stella, it should live under the lights overwinter, but you could also try setting up a electric radiant oil heater near the plant to warm it up during the day, same heater my parents use in their fifth wheel to keep it warm and dry all winter, I was going to do this in my garage during the late winter early spring months so that my seeds will germinate and seedlings will actually grow.

What is really helping my Filius Blue is that it is located upstairs in what feels like a greenhouse, hot and humid even when it is only 17C outside.

[stella1751]

I've been thinking all day about what Applestar and Csvd87 said about over-wintering this pepper, and the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. If I could get the three original plants outside by mid-May, they would be the only peppers blooming in the area, and all the seeds would be pure Big Chile II's. June 1 is the traditional planting time up here; few people want to go through the hassle of covering their plants throughout May.

Additionally, I and my neighbor are the only vegetable gardeners in an 1/8 mile range, which would also increase my chances of success. I would know if she put any peppers out that early, and I could sneak over in the night and kill them.

Okay. I am convinced that I need to over-winter these peppers. I can't dig up the first two I put out, the ones that are making monstrously huge chilies, not until their peppers have matured. I really want those seeds. However, I have one I can dig up with very little trouble. I didn't set that one out until the end of June. I was keeping it in reserve because I thought one of the Habaneros might not make it, and I wanted to keep the numbers in that bed even. (Anal retentive, I know.) Anyhow, when the Habanero pulled through, I stuck Frankenchile III in the radish bed, those having been recently harvested. It is now drowning in a sea of fall peas, and it only has a few measley peppers on it, nothing to write home about.

(There's also a watermelon creeping throughout the peas, but that's another story. I suspect it will die when I dig up the pepper plant.)

That plant shall be my experiment plant. I think the best thing to do is to dig it up, place it in a container, and leave it out to adjust to the container before moving it in the house. There's no need, anyway, to move it inside, not yet, anyway. This will give me an idea of how well these plants survive the transplanting.

Applestar, please advise me on this "chopping off the top third" of the plant. Straight across? Or more of a pruning at the base of the branches? I will need to pick up some potting soil. I do have some 2' black nursery pots, as well as some 18" terra cotta colored containers. Which would be best?

Csvd87, what do you recommend for indoor accommodations? My house is very tiny. My desk faces the east. If I move it back 3', I could fit all three plants between the desk and the window. If I stacked books high on both sides of the plants, I could have my fluorescent light above them. Would that do the job?

Last time I did this, I had two big problems: 1) Tiny black flying bugs all over my house, and 2) The plants eventually began to die, with leaves falling off from the bottom up. I think the heater made my house too dry, but I'm not certain.

Any ideas?

[csvd87]

I wish I had more advice, but this will be the first time I attempt to bring peppers inside for the winter, however, mine are already in pots. My peppers are still growing with max day temps of 20C and overnight of 10C, so if you have you're basement at around 50 to 60 they should be fine, they might finish all their current growth and then call it quits for the winter until temps rise, but if you can keep them at around 65 to 75 they will probably keep producing, but slowly, you will also have to keep them pruned as to not stress them out in the pots... Listen to me talkin as if I know what I am doing... haha

[stella1751]

I wish I had more advice, but this will be the first time I attempt to bring peppers inside for the winter, however, mine are already in pots. My peppers are still growing with max day temps of 20C and overnight of 10C, so if you have you're basement at around 50 to 60 they should be fine, they might finish all their current growth and then call it quits for the winter until temps rise, but if you can keep them at around 65 to 75 they will probably keep producing, but slowly, you will also have to keep them pruned as to not stress them out in the pots... Listen to me talkin as if I know what I am doing... haha

What would you describe as the ideal indoor conditions for an indoor pepper? I've decided to put them upstairs. It makes sense that if they will produce in the house, I would be 100% certain that they were the only pollinators. (Duh.) I have no houseplants. The seed would definitely be the product of both parents.

[stella1751]

Stella, did you cover your plants last night?

We definitely dropped below freezing last night in my back yard.

I lied. I didn't cover the Frankenchile in my pea bed, and it is fine. We got close, but we didn't freeze.

[applestar]

Applestar, please advise me on this "chopping off the top third" of the plant. Straight across? Or more of a pruning at the base of the branches? I will need to pick up some potting soil. I do have some 2' black nursery pots, as well as some 18" terra cotta colored containers. Which would be best?

I don't feel qualified to give a definitive advice here. But this is what I did: I think of it as a small fruit tree -- I remove any damaged leaves and branches, touching, crossing and spindly branches (in that order), then cut the main trunk and branch tips for height and to shape the plant. All cuts should a pruning cut -- 45 degree angle just above a node.

As for the container choice, I will tell you that I think non-plastic containers must be best, but at the same time, I realize large ceramic ones, filled with moist potting mix and the large plants are practically impossible to move.

I'm slowly migrating my container edibles to ceramic or clay containers and have considered wooden containers too.

[soil]

I dig up and put all my overwintering peppers in 1 gallon pots. they mostly stay dormant and don't do any growing. I rarely snip off some top growth as I usually have dieback from the cold ( kept in unheated greenhouse not inside the home) come spring it shoots out at fresh nodes and becomes a giant bush in no time.

[garden5]

Good info, Apps. Why do you think that plastic containers aren't optimal for the indoor peppers? Also, what size containers to you plan on using.

Stella, glad to hear that the chili made it through the frost well . I've found that peppers can take a frost better than tomatoes can.......but do make sure you cover it next time .

[stella1751]

My peppers having survived last night's freeze, I decided to sit out and admire them. They are very handsome peppers.

While looking at them, it occurred to me that I may have been measuring the wrong pepper. Back into the house for my measuring utensil. The bottom pepper is now 10.5"; the top just hit 11". And there's a third one in there now that is also making a bid for greatness.

Following are updated photos of Frankenchile's offspring hanging out with a quart jar:

[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/Frankenchile.jpg[/img]

Only 3" to go. (Like that's going to happen this fall )

[garden5]

My peppers having survived last night's freeze, I decided to sit out and admire them. They are very handsome peppers.

While looking at them, it occurred to me that I may have been measuring the wrong pepper. Back into the house for my measuring utensil. The bottom pepper is now 10.5"; the top just hit 11". And there's a third one in there now that is also making a bid for greatness.

Following are updated photos of Frankenchile's offspring hanging out with a quart jar:

[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/Frankenchile.jpg[/img]

Only 3" to go. (Like that's going to happen this fall )

Wow, those chilies are huge ! Make sure you save the seed, just for the sake of giving them a go next year and seeing if you get a big on again, of if it's a fluke.

[stella1751]

I am desperate to save these seeds. I suspect I have already given away more seeds than these two peppers will produce for me and friends. (My neighbor comes regularly to check on their progress.) I keep waiting for them to quit growing and start maturing, but I'm fighting the weather every step of the way. Two days now of 50+ MPH winds have heralded a cold front moving in tonight; the green stakes supporting them are bent and twisted, but what can you do?

These peppers couldn't have come at a better time. I learned a lot this summer, mostly in the tomato thread, about breeding hybrids and saving seeds. If I can take these guys to maturity, I plan to devote an entire bed to them next year and every year after. TZ says the seventh generation brings a certain degree of consistency.

They have been the highlight of my summer. Even if they don't make it, the 2010 gardening season was made much more exciting by these fellows!

[garden5]

I am desperate to save these seeds. I suspect I have already given away more seeds than these two peppers will produce for me and friends. (My neighbor comes regularly to check on their progress.) I keep waiting for them to quit growing and start maturing, but I'm fighting the weather every step of the way. Two days now of 50+ MPH winds have heralded a cold front moving in tonight; the green stakes supporting them are bent and twisted, but what can you do?

These peppers couldn't have come at a better time. I learned a lot this summer, mostly in the tomato thread, about breeding hybrids and saving seeds. If I can take these guys to maturity, I plan to devote an entire bed to them next year and every year after. TZ says the seventh generation brings a certain degree of consistency.

They have been the highlight of my summer. Even if they don't make it, the 2010 gardening season was made much more exciting by these fellows!

I think with every garden, there is always that one crop or one plants that really gets you excited.

If you cant get these to mature for seen, at least bring the plant in for the winter time so you can get a pepper from the same plant indoors, or at least outdoors when you re-plant it next year. Don't risk loosing the plant to frost by trying to get the very most amount of growth out of these peppers .

Good luck with the up coming frosts .

[stella1751]

Garden5, I am torn. On the one hand, if I bring the plant inside, the chilies won't mature naturally, and I'll lose the opportunity to see how long these guys can really get. Peppers are wonderful parents. If they suspect their offspring are endangered, they will put all their energy into maturing the fruit for the next generation, sacrificing their own plant-sustaining needs to promote the well-being of the produce. The instant I start severing roots, those peppers will cease to grow.

I suspect they're at or close to a record for their variety. The original Hybrid Big Chile II was vaunted as a 9" long chile. Given the liberties taken with advertising, I wonder whether they wouldn't have written their ad copy as "up to a foot in length," as is the case with the NuMex Big Jim, if the plant had produced larger chilies with any degree of consistency. I measured the two peppers this morning, and the bottom one is now 11" and the top one at 11.5". (Well, more like .35", but who's counting?)

On the other hand, I seriously don't want to lose this particular plant. The other two plants didn't mature as quickly as this one, so their biggest chilies are now only 9". I won't see those peppers mature, so I'm not as reluctant to dig their plants up as I am this one. However, their failure to impress me like this one makes me less frantic to usher them indoors.

I think what I will probably wind up doing is heading out into a snowstorm, shovel in hand, and digging this plant up at the last minute

[applestar]

I've never tried it with peppers, but I suspect you can also take cuttings and try to "save" the plant by propagating them. Use bottom heat and willow water.

[csvd87]

I've never tried it with peppers, but I suspect you can also take cuttings and try to "save" the plant by propagating them. Use bottom heat and willow water.

I have a Banana pepper cutting trying to root right now actually it is flowering as it roots. read a little into peppers from cuttings on fatali's website

here is a link to info on pepper cuttings
[url]https://www.fatalii.net/growing/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=32[/url]

[stella1751]

Wow, guys! Thanks for the info!

[stella1751]

Okay, I have studied the process, and I know I can do this! Back in the day, I used to breed African Violets. I'd cut a leaf at an angle, stick it in moist soil, cover the top with a baggie, seal the baggie up to the edges of the pot, and, voila, a new African Violet in two to four weeks. This seems much like that.

I just checked the plant. I was pretty ruthless in pruning off the new growth, but I can see I missed at least three likely candidates.

I have two questions: I have found Clonex on Ebay. The small quantities, which is all I would need, come in a 15 ml. packet instead of a bottle. It says that is .5 oz. So, that should be more than enough, I think. However, will I be able to reseal the packet, just in case my first attempt doesn't work? Would it be more economical to purchase an entire bottle, which is resealable?

Question 2: The fellow recommends a peat-based soil mix. I don't want to buy another whole bale of peatmoss. Miracle Gro worked on my African Violets. Will this be too heavy for propagating peppers?

Thanks again. I am really jazzed at the thought of giving this a try! What a truly great idea, Applestar!

[csvd87]

I've tried 3 things, so far 1 has worked, I used Take Roots by Schultz, its a powder, wet the cut end and stir it in the powder and then I placed the cut end in a glass with a water logged cotton wad (oh, this was done with basil, had roots in a week) I tried same stuff with rosemary... failed, although I tried the powder and then placed the cutting in soil. 2nd product was a gel called Roots by Wilson, tried with a pepper cutting but it kinda shrivled up in a few hours and never recovered. 3rd product I have tried is again a gel, but it comes in like clear plastic cells with a foil top, you just select your cutting, make a small hole and cram the cutting into the gel and leave it till it roots, so far my banana pepper cutting is still alive.. and flowering actually, but no roots yet.

On another note, I just read Fatali's info on breeding and I have tried to cross Filius Blue with Banana, both C. Annuum, I'll see in few days or more if it took.

Try a small bag of MG Seed Starting Mix, its basically just peat and perlite.. or you can do straight vermiculite.

[csvd87]

Hi My name is Curtis, and I am an addict. hahaha, I just bought more seeds, from Fatali, I couldn't say no to the Bhut Bell cross, or the Bonnet Bell cross., also picked up a rare wild variety as well as the Chocolate Fatali... looks like I need more pots will have 20 Varieties growing on my back deck. thats it, no more.. HELP!!! won't have room for Frankenchile, so you can keep those seeds for you or someone else, lol.

[stella1751]

Coincidentally, straight vermiculite I have. And, whoops, I might have referred to you as "she" or "her" in a post or two. Sorry about that, Curtis

You are in luck Re: Frankenchile seeds. I have reached the point where I have quit offering them; I think the plant will need until November or so to produce enough seeds for everyone who wants 'em, and it'll be lucky to make it to the end of September. Duh. This is my first year for seed saving. Live and learn, right?

Vermiculite, huh? I might check locally and see who has what in the area of rooting hormones. It'd save time if I could purchase it locally.

[applestar]

I was going to mention vermiculite as well since I was pretty sure you're stocked up on that. Being me, I just use my regular seed starting mix -- finished screened compost/garden soil/sand.

I posted asking about natural rooting "hormone" a while back (the commercial powders contain chemicals including nasty fungicides) You might want to "search" -- I believe willow tea, chamomile tea, and straight honey were mentioned. Post the link if you find it before I do.

[csvd87]

[url]https://stores.channeladvisor.com/hirtsgardens/Items/totally247134187?sck=1487794&caSKU=totally247134187&caTitle=Big%20Chili%20II%20Pepper%2035%20Seeds%20-%20Great%20on%20the%20Grill[/url]

Big Chile II.... I have bought 3 orders of seeds from them and never noticed before, can't be the same as the Biggie Chile.. or it would be named the Biggie Chile... hmmm very interesting

[stella1751]

Curtis, this is great! Thanks! Last summer, long before my Frankenchile began producing these immense peppers, I looked everywhere to find seeds for next year, and I didn't find this particular website. I had bought my seeds from Gurneys, many years ago, but I never had an opportunity to use them. The seeds sat and sat and finally five were planted only to replace the NuMex Big Jims my dogs destroyed early this spring. If the Frankenchile hadn't continued to grow so oddly, I would have definitely bought these Big Chile II seeds. They look much like mine.

The name of mine is actually Hybrid Big Chile II or, to be precise, Guerneys Hybrid Big Chile II. Guerneys quit producing them years ago; I don't know how long ago. They replaced them with something called the Saguaro, I think. Another variant is the Biggie Chile. These that you have found are probably a variant, too, of the old Hybrid Big Chile II. I think it's especially interesting that they are an F1. They're not the Guerneys variety, but I'm betting they're the closest of anything around. A little puny at 10", but I guess you can't have everything, right Just in case, I'm going to bookmark this website to my favorites.

My Hybrid Big Chile II's have been odd from the very beginning, which is why I call them Frankenchile and why, quite frankly, they seriously interest me. At the time I named them that, I hadn't an inkling the peppers would get this big. They just intrigued me because they were a genetic anomaly, perhaps something to do with improperly storing old, possibly genetically unstable, seeds? I don't know. Then the peppers started growing and growing and growing, and, well, it doesn't get any better than this.

What fun they have made my gardening season! I still have some of the original seeds left; the next time I start some of them, I'm gonna document their growth. I'm no geneticist, but these guys have been weird, weird, weird from start to finish. I can't remember when I last became this attached to a plant. This year, I will be inconsolable for days after the first killing frost

[garden5]

CS, I saw those "bhut bells" as well, but it said there weren't hot, otherwise, I would get some. I'm in the same boat as you......too many varieties floating around in my head as it is, now.

Stella, I'm certain you can do it. I've seen pepper plants send out roots from the stems just like tomatoes, though to a lesser degree.

I know how you feel with you frankenchili.....I'm that way with everything . I was trying to eek out as much growth as possible with my tomatoes last year, only to have a frost come and hit them and the plants. I brought them all indoors, but they all rotted. You really have to have your timing on when you're trying to beat the frost date .

[csvd87]

Well.. after next season I will know what I liked and what I didn't. so I can cut a few from the roster and add a few more.

[stella1751]

I have three pepper cuttings soaking in willow tea right now. According to the instructions, the ones I liked the best, anyway, you steep the willow twigs overnight, and then you put the cuttings in it, leaving the cut ends to soak overnight.

After scouring the town for a rooting hormone, I was fortunate and found a place that offered small packets of Rootone. Tomorrow I will follow Curtis's advice to try different methods and start three more using the Rootone.

Tomorrow morning, I need to prepare my soil starting medium. I bought small bags of perlite and peat moss. I have vermiculite on hand. I also bought a huge bag of Miracle Gro Moisture Control, which I'll be using should those peppers ever mature enough for me to move the plant indoors. I bought a small bag of organic seed starting mix, just to cover all of my bases. Finally, I have a coffee can of my soil left over from when I had my soil tested two years ago. There will be weed seeds in it, mostly grass, but because it has been sealed for two years, I'm betting no critters or critter eggs will be alive in it.

I couldn't find any bone meal, nowhere, which is annoying because I am out. I believe I have some blood meal somewhere, which would work for nitrogren. I could soak some gyspum overnight and add that to the mix, I suppose, and I have some kelp meal.

So, here's what I have: perlite, peat moss, vermiculite, potting soil, seed starting mix, and garden soil. Does anyone have a special recipe he or she likes to use for propagating from root cuttings? I've found dozens of different recipes online, and I'm not certain yet which one to use. I could probably make up three different recipes, using one for each cutting from each batch.

[soil]

I propagate almost everything here in

1 part sand
1 part compost
1 part perlite/rice hulls.

with very good success.

no need for fertilizers like blood and bone until they root and are established.

[garden5]

As a substitute for the bone meal, you could look into rock phosphate, though, as Soil said, that's not necessary until your cutting are rooted and growing.

Keep us updated. Oh, did you take any cuttings from Frankenchili, or are you waiting until you find a proven method?