I am sort of thinking some time I will add on more space to my garden for row crops like corn. Right now I am using a sort of mound system on them and I am considering raised bed system in most of my existing garden. I am looking at cost of materials and durability so my question is what are the ways you have done yours and how are the holding up? Please tell me what you are doing and how you made them and how it is working for you. Is it easy to work on your garden? Did it cut down on bending over? How do you manage the soil in the raised beds? And what ever else I forgot to ask. Please and thank you for any ideas help and information.
I would have to put in a number of beds so time and cost are also a factor.
The space I would be doing a raised bed garden in.
[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/twistedtomf/Garden%202010b/_DSC0026.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/twistedtomf/Garden%202010b/_DSC0062.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/twistedtomf/Garden%202010b/_DSC0063.jpg[/img]
tom, raised beds can get a bit pricey to build as you likely know. I've had friends scavenge discarded railroad cross ties to use, but back then, they were treated with creosote-----not something I'd like leeching into my garden soil. I've built them in years past with treated lumber and lined the inside with heavy plastic before adding soil because of the chemicals in them too.
To build a 16' x 4' x 1' deep box using treated lumber at today's prices will run you about $60 each just for the lumber, and that is just for the basic box with no partitions for added strength. I've also seen stacked landscape timbers used and secured by drilling holes in the ends and driving pipe in the ground to secure them-------but they are treated too.
I've seen others use cinder blocks and they will put them 1 or 2 blocks high (about 8" each) fill the 3 holes in the blocks with soil and plant flowers or small plants like leaf lettuce, fill the interior and grow larger crops. That too can be pretty costly unless you know of a demo source.
Then there's the issue with how you're going to fill them once built. Are you going to take existing soil and leave a low spot somewhere or are you going to bring in topsoil to fill them. Or do you have that much composted material. The above mentioned 16 x 4 x 1 will take over 2 cubic yards of soil to fill, and where I live, a cubic yard of topsoil is $25 each. That would make the cost close to $125 to make that size raised bed before a single plant goes in.
Talk about food for thought.
To build a 16' x 4' x 1' deep box using treated lumber at today's prices will run you about $60 each just for the lumber, and that is just for the basic box with no partitions for added strength. I've also seen stacked landscape timbers used and secured by drilling holes in the ends and driving pipe in the ground to secure them-------but they are treated too.
I've seen others use cinder blocks and they will put them 1 or 2 blocks high (about 8" each) fill the 3 holes in the blocks with soil and plant flowers or small plants like leaf lettuce, fill the interior and grow larger crops. That too can be pretty costly unless you know of a demo source.
Then there's the issue with how you're going to fill them once built. Are you going to take existing soil and leave a low spot somewhere or are you going to bring in topsoil to fill them. Or do you have that much composted material. The above mentioned 16 x 4 x 1 will take over 2 cubic yards of soil to fill, and where I live, a cubic yard of topsoil is $25 each. That would make the cost close to $125 to make that size raised bed before a single plant goes in.
Talk about food for thought.
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stella1751
- Greener Thumb
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:40 am
- Location: Wyoming
TomF, I have constructed two different types of beds.
The simplest and least expensive to construct are the ones in the back yard, which I make from landscaping timbers. Here's a photo of one, taken last year. I have managed to fill it halfway this year, but at the time this photo was taken, the soil was probably only 4" high. (It takes me longer to fill them than it does to construct them
)
[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/cukes_07_26_09.jpg[/img]
To construct this one, you cut 1/3 of your timbers in half for the ends. Then you drill 3/4" holes in one end of all of the timbers. You lay out the first section of the bed in a 4' x 8' rectangle, making sure the corners are squared, and pound in 3' rebars at each corner of it. Then you slide the timbers on, making certain you overlap the hole ends with the non-hole ends, if that makes sense. I think you can see what I mean in the picture.
The other type of bed is in my front yard, running along the sidewalk. Because I had odd shapes to work with in the front yard, thanks to the utility lines, sidewalk, and driveway, I used 2x4's or 2x6's in the front yard.
[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/front_yard.jpg[/img]
This is a closer view. Each of these beds is cornered with a 4x4 that is roughly 3" extended at the base so they don't shift. I used deck screws to attach the boards to the 4x4's, constructing them where I planned to secure them. I then braced the bed up with a rock so I could dig holes for the 4x4 extension so the bed set level with the ground.
[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/40600015.jpg[/img]
The front yard beds can be inexpensive if you have access to used lumber. The first two beds I built out front were made with a friend's old wood, and they cost me, total, about $100. I am told that in my town the construction companies sell demolished buildings by the truckload. I guess you bid on them or something; I'm not sure how it works.
The important thing to remember with both types of beds is to work with a level. If you don't use a level, the front ones look odd, and the back ones won't fit over the rebars. That's probably no news to you, but I think the most frustrating part for me on both type beds is making certain they are level. You dig one side down to level it with the other, and then you find that you have messed up the levelness on a third side. Very annoying. Sometimes it takes a half hour to construct one; sometimes it takes two hours.
As for height, I built these roughly 2' tall, probably a little less. My purpose is to keep dogs out. It is taking me a long time to fill the raised beds in the back, but at least the dogs aren't tearing through the garden like they used to
I do have a friend who has a bad back. She built all her raised beds waist high, and she really likes them that way. I think they would be difficult to prepare the soil in each year, but she says she has no problem and that it's worth the effort in terms of painfree gardening.
I hope this helps!
The simplest and least expensive to construct are the ones in the back yard, which I make from landscaping timbers. Here's a photo of one, taken last year. I have managed to fill it halfway this year, but at the time this photo was taken, the soil was probably only 4" high. (It takes me longer to fill them than it does to construct them
)[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/cukes_07_26_09.jpg[/img]
To construct this one, you cut 1/3 of your timbers in half for the ends. Then you drill 3/4" holes in one end of all of the timbers. You lay out the first section of the bed in a 4' x 8' rectangle, making sure the corners are squared, and pound in 3' rebars at each corner of it. Then you slide the timbers on, making certain you overlap the hole ends with the non-hole ends, if that makes sense. I think you can see what I mean in the picture.
The other type of bed is in my front yard, running along the sidewalk. Because I had odd shapes to work with in the front yard, thanks to the utility lines, sidewalk, and driveway, I used 2x4's or 2x6's in the front yard.
[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/front_yard.jpg[/img]
This is a closer view. Each of these beds is cornered with a 4x4 that is roughly 3" extended at the base so they don't shift. I used deck screws to attach the boards to the 4x4's, constructing them where I planned to secure them. I then braced the bed up with a rock so I could dig holes for the 4x4 extension so the bed set level with the ground.
[img]https://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy292/mitbah/40600015.jpg[/img]
The front yard beds can be inexpensive if you have access to used lumber. The first two beds I built out front were made with a friend's old wood, and they cost me, total, about $100. I am told that in my town the construction companies sell demolished buildings by the truckload. I guess you bid on them or something; I'm not sure how it works.
The important thing to remember with both types of beds is to work with a level. If you don't use a level, the front ones look odd, and the back ones won't fit over the rebars. That's probably no news to you, but I think the most frustrating part for me on both type beds is making certain they are level. You dig one side down to level it with the other, and then you find that you have messed up the levelness on a third side. Very annoying. Sometimes it takes a half hour to construct one; sometimes it takes two hours.
As for height, I built these roughly 2' tall, probably a little less. My purpose is to keep dogs out. It is taking me a long time to fill the raised beds in the back, but at least the dogs aren't tearing through the garden like they used to
I do have a friend who has a bad back. She built all her raised beds waist high, and she really likes them that way. I think they would be difficult to prepare the soil in each year, but she says she has no problem and that it's worth the effort in terms of painfree gardening.
I hope this helps!
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rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 25279
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
I garden mostly in raised beds and I really like them - they divide the work into really manageable tasks, keep your soil amendments in place, keep you from walking on the soil and compacting it, are convenient for putting hoops over for row cover, plastic etc or for wrapping with deer netting to keep critters out. Mine are deeper than you are talking about and 4" wide posts so you can even sit on them to work...
But I doubt I would do so if I had as much land as you do. As noted it will take a lot of materials.
I built raised bed boxes out of 4x4 pine fence posts, which are considerably cheaper than other kinds of lumber, pictured here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=105961&highlight=raised+beds#105961
I stacked them first, then drilled a hole down through the stack with a very long drill bit, then pounded steel rebar in the hole. But mine are stacked with overlapping corners and rebar down through the corners as well as the sides. I did not use corner brackets or anything else besides the rebar. They are now 9 years old and still VERY solid.
And given that there is no actual soil anywhere on my property, I had topsoil trucked in to fill them, 1 cu yard per box.
You could look around for free materials (concrete blocks?) and perhaps you have somewhere you can dig topsoil on your property. But at the very least it will be a very big work project.
If it were me, with that much land, I would think about something probably pretty similar to your mounds. Wide raised rows, taking the top soil from between the rows and piling it on the row. You can plant the sides of the row/ mound to help keep it from eroding away.
But I doubt I would do so if I had as much land as you do. As noted it will take a lot of materials.
I built raised bed boxes out of 4x4 pine fence posts, which are considerably cheaper than other kinds of lumber, pictured here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=105961&highlight=raised+beds#105961
I stacked them first, then drilled a hole down through the stack with a very long drill bit, then pounded steel rebar in the hole. But mine are stacked with overlapping corners and rebar down through the corners as well as the sides. I did not use corner brackets or anything else besides the rebar. They are now 9 years old and still VERY solid.
And given that there is no actual soil anywhere on my property, I had topsoil trucked in to fill them, 1 cu yard per box.
You could look around for free materials (concrete blocks?) and perhaps you have somewhere you can dig topsoil on your property. But at the very least it will be a very big work project.
If it were me, with that much land, I would think about something probably pretty similar to your mounds. Wide raised rows, taking the top soil from between the rows and piling it on the row. You can plant the sides of the row/ mound to help keep it from eroding away.
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applestar
- Mod
- Posts: 30541
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
- Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)
I recommend you also check out the [url=https://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=2865701754864235132]Elimia Hazelip video[/url] and Ruth Stout videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ReIotPNVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyyVVdg_1Z0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQv6KX7h0QM
We talked about them a lot here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21761
and also here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=111340#111340
If I had the space, I would definitely experiment more in these directions. As it is, I've tried smaller scale beds adapted to my small garden space and posted photos here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22797
and more in this thread as well:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24892
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ReIotPNVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyyVVdg_1Z0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQv6KX7h0QM
We talked about them a lot here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21761
and also here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=111340#111340
If I had the space, I would definitely experiment more in these directions. As it is, I've tried smaller scale beds adapted to my small garden space and posted photos here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22797
and more in this thread as well:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24892
I think that with the size of your garden, raised beds may be impractical....at least in line of converting the whole garden.
I think that, like others have said, the "raised row" method would better suit you. One of the pluses about this method is it gives you more planting area (the sides of the hills).
Of course, you could always just put in a few smaller raised beds to supplement your existing garden.....it's hard to have too many gardens!
.
I think that, like others have said, the "raised row" method would better suit you. One of the pluses about this method is it gives you more planting area (the sides of the hills).
Of course, you could always just put in a few smaller raised beds to supplement your existing garden.....it's hard to have too many gardens!
.I used some spare 3x4 I had and constructed small elavated beds with those. I also had some 2x2 material that I made stakes with and cut those into about 16 inch stakes.
I measured and cut my 3x4's to the desired bed size I wanted and then toenailed them together with 10 penny framing nails. I pounded one stake on the inside corners of my box and then fastened the stake to the box with some 3 inch screws. Also I added stakes in the middle of the sections (also inside the box) that exceeded 3 feet in length so that at any point there was no linear section that didnt have a stake at a minimum of three feet.
The soil under the boxes was decent and I tilled it up before placing the boxes. After placement of the boxes I used some top soil that I dug up from a wooded area and mixed it with some peat and manure.
Its not a deep box by any meens but it leaves a nice clean edge as it in a lawn area.
It was a nice clean edge to the lawn until I stopped by the garden market in early summer and decided to buy some more pepper plants and I planted them "outside the box" lol. as well as one watermelon plant on each side
[img]https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t69/jimsporty/100_0381.jpg[/img]
There is so many methods and sizes and different material u can use to build yer raised beds.
Another method that can be used is that if you have access to fieldstone in good sized pieces in your area is to construct the raised beds from stone by creating stone walls to the desired height u want. Depending on the size, shape and stackabilty of the stones u may want to use mortar to cement the stones in place. Mortar is fairly cheap, and stone is free if you can forage your own. The monetary price to build these is very low, but labor intensive and takes quite a bit of time.
Me personally, I cannot afford to go out and buy top notch building materials. I'm a use what ya got and improvise kind of guy.
I measured and cut my 3x4's to the desired bed size I wanted and then toenailed them together with 10 penny framing nails. I pounded one stake on the inside corners of my box and then fastened the stake to the box with some 3 inch screws. Also I added stakes in the middle of the sections (also inside the box) that exceeded 3 feet in length so that at any point there was no linear section that didnt have a stake at a minimum of three feet.
The soil under the boxes was decent and I tilled it up before placing the boxes. After placement of the boxes I used some top soil that I dug up from a wooded area and mixed it with some peat and manure.
Its not a deep box by any meens but it leaves a nice clean edge as it in a lawn area.
It was a nice clean edge to the lawn until I stopped by the garden market in early summer and decided to buy some more pepper plants and I planted them "outside the box" lol. as well as one watermelon plant on each side
[img]https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t69/jimsporty/100_0381.jpg[/img]
There is so many methods and sizes and different material u can use to build yer raised beds.
Another method that can be used is that if you have access to fieldstone in good sized pieces in your area is to construct the raised beds from stone by creating stone walls to the desired height u want. Depending on the size, shape and stackabilty of the stones u may want to use mortar to cement the stones in place. Mortar is fairly cheap, and stone is free if you can forage your own. The monetary price to build these is very low, but labor intensive and takes quite a bit of time.
Me personally, I cannot afford to go out and buy top notch building materials. I'm a use what ya got and improvise kind of guy.
You are right, just about anything can be used to make a raised bed as long as it will hold dirt.Shoontok wrote:I used some spare 3x4 I had and constructed small elavated beds with those. I also had some 2x2 material that I made stakes with and cut those into about 16 inch stakes.
I measured and cut my 3x4's to the desired bed size I wanted and then toenailed them together with 10 penny framing nails. I pounded one stake on the inside corners of my box and then fastened the stake to the box with some 3 inch screws. Also I added stakes in the middle of the sections (also inside the box) that exceeded 3 feet in length so that at any point there was no linear section that didnt have a stake at a minimum of three feet.
The soil under the boxes was decent and I tilled it up before placing the boxes. After placement of the boxes I used some top soil that I dug up from a wooded area and mixed it with some peat and manure.
Its not a deep box by any meens but it leaves a nice clean edge as it in a lawn area.
It was a nice clean edge to the lawn until I stopped by the garden market in early summer and decided to buy some more pepper plants and I planted them "outside the box" lol. as well as one watermelon plant on each side
[img]https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t69/jimsporty/100_0381.jpg[/img]
There is so many methods and sizes and different material u can use to build yer raised beds.
Another method that can be used is that if you have access to fieldstone in good sized pieces in your area is to construct the raised beds from stone by creating stone walls to the desired height u want. Depending on the size, shape and stackabilty of the stones u may want to use mortar to cement the stones in place. Mortar is fairly cheap, and stone is free if you can forage your own. The monetary price to build these is very low, but labor intensive and takes quite a bit of time.
Me personally, I cannot afford to go out and buy top notch building materials. I'm a use what ya got and improvise kind of guy.
I've even heard of hay bales being used to make a raised bed, though that would surly not stand the test of time. The bed would fall apart as the hay bales degraded, so you'd have to keep adding new bales each year, certainly not that cheap in the long-run.
So the wood in your beds have not rotted? I see some of you are using cherry tones are they treated? I am a bit afraid of using any thing treated.
You have a good point Garden5, right now I am doing most of my beds as mounds.
I will be looking into this some more so thank you all for your ideas and telling me what you have done.
You have a good point Garden5, right now I am doing most of my beds as mounds.
I will be looking into this some more so thank you all for your ideas and telling me what you have done.
Last edited by tomf on Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
I use a few raised beds in my garden, for certain crops like Strawberries and Carrots. For root crops like carrots, I like the raised bed because it's easier for me to make a deep loamy soil so the carrots have room to grow. For crops like Strawberries, I find the raised bed makes it a lot easier to harvest ... a lot less bending, stooping, and crawling around on the ground at harvest time.
I will not use treated lumber or railroad ties for the beds. I know a lot of folks do, but I am too "chemically paranoid" to do that. I have built several raised beds from leftover (not treated) pine 2x4s that I had. I know those will eventually have to be replaced; but they last a lot longer than most folks think.
There is a cedar mill in my area that has reasonably priced "rough" cedar planks for sale. As soon as I can get by there, I am going to pick up some of those cedar boards to try; I think those will make some nice raised beds that are naturally rot-resistant.
One tip I would give is to "overfill" the beds with soil. As the soil settles, it will get lower in the bed, usually by several inches.
I will not use treated lumber or railroad ties for the beds. I know a lot of folks do, but I am too "chemically paranoid" to do that. I have built several raised beds from leftover (not treated) pine 2x4s that I had. I know those will eventually have to be replaced; but they last a lot longer than most folks think.
There is a cedar mill in my area that has reasonably priced "rough" cedar planks for sale. As soon as I can get by there, I am going to pick up some of those cedar boards to try; I think those will make some nice raised beds that are naturally rot-resistant.
One tip I would give is to "overfill" the beds with soil. As the soil settles, it will get lower in the bed, usually by several inches.
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cherishedtiger
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:10 pm
- Location: Sacramento, California
I used 2"x12" to make my raised bed. So far this has worked out beautifully. Its a little pricey, but I think I spent the majority on dirt and mulch to fill it with! My bed is also 6'x6' which does make reaching the middle a but tough, but for me its doable.
[img]https://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/cherishedtiger/garden1-6-1-10.jpg[/img]
I found that for everything I grew (corn, onions, melon, squash etc) though a bit crowded 12" was plenty deep for me. I will be building probably 2 more beds before spring, not 6x6 though lol! Good luck with what you decide to do, just remember raised beds lose lots of nutrients so make sure you compost or mulch, or well other to ensure that your dirt is nice and healthy!
[img]https://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/cherishedtiger/garden1-6-1-10.jpg[/img]
I found that for everything I grew (corn, onions, melon, squash etc) though a bit crowded 12" was plenty deep for me. I will be building probably 2 more beds before spring, not 6x6 though lol! Good luck with what you decide to do, just remember raised beds lose lots of nutrients so make sure you compost or mulch, or well other to ensure that your dirt is nice and healthy!
When you are building your bed over earth, you don't have to worry about making it super deep. Overtime, the earth under the raised bed will be broken up and the plant's roots will go into the underlying soil.cherishedtiger wrote:I used 2"x12" to make my raised bed. So far this has worked out beautifully. Its a little pricey, but I think I spent the majority on dirt and mulch to fill it with! My bed is also 6'x6' which does make reaching the middle a but tough, but for me its doable.
[img]https://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/cherishedtiger/garden1-6-1-10.jpg[/img]
I found that for everything I grew (corn, onions, melon, squash etc) though a bit crowded 12" was plenty deep for me. I will be building probably 2 more beds before spring, not 6x6 though lol! Good luck with what you decide to do, just remember raised beds lose lots of nutrients so make sure you compost or mulch, or well other to ensure that your dirt is nice and healthy!
Now, if you're making your bed above something impenetrable, like asphalt or cement, depth becomes much more important.