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jal_ut
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applestar, Not enough time for the beans. I plant squash and beans the same day. My beans are still producing, and you can see the squash has completely taken over every available inch of territory.
Also, there's a nagging question in my mind that perhaps the "weeds" you hoe and mulch with might be putting entirely different set of nutrients back in the soil that the squash/pumpkins need, that replacing them with bush bean "hay" -- so to speak -- may, in fact, be not as beneficial....
About all I can say about this is that I feel all organic matter is beneficial to the soil. Be it beans or weeds, I don't think it makes any difference. Any weeds can be considered mulch, and it is going to take a while for it to be converted to plant food. It will be of more benefit to next years crops after the microbes have their way with it.

I like to do soil amendments in the fall. Add leaves and manure then till it all in along with what is left of the garden plants. My philosophy is to put more on than I take off. Some call this sheet composting.

garden5
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So, I'm assuming that you don't trellis your cukes at all. Also, from you pic, it looks like your rows (melons) are about 3 ft. apart. Is this right?

From the size of that melon, It looks as if you'll be enjoying some watermelons this year :0.

When you till in leaves in the fall, are they aged, composted, or just fresh after they fell off the trees?

However you amend your soil, it sure seems like it's working :).

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jal_ut
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So, I'm assuming that you don't trellis your cukes at all. Also, from you pic, it looks like your rows (melons) are about 3 ft. apart. Is this right?
I don't trellis cukes. Let them run on the ground.

That is one row of melons. There was about a 9 foot wide space left so I planted the melons up the middle of it. Now they are over into the beans and out into the grass. I hope I get a melon. There is maybe a month left before frost.
When you till in leaves in the fall, are they aged, composted, or just fresh after they fell off the trees?
Fresh off the trees. By spring they are mostly decomposed.

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applestar
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My father makes supports like the ones you make for beans (tripods connected at the top by cross pieces) out of sturdy branches for cukes.

I always "trellis them" in the sense that I plant them near a fence. I do have string trellises hung on the picket fence. This year, some of the cuke vines have decided that they don't want to climb up and are sprawling on the ground. I tend to forget to look on the ground so I keep finding overgrown cukes nestled in the mulch. So far, they have been discovered just in time. This morning's find is a bit close. I won't know for sure until I cut it up. But overgrown cukes past their prime are still delicious cooked. I usually put them in pasta sauce. My mom likes them in soup.

As you may know, the HGGF Book Club is currently reading about "natural farming" in One Straw Revolution. In the intro, the Editor Larry Korn talks about "kicking something hard" in the apparently overgrown undergrowth in the open spaces in the citrus orchard and finding a large cucumber.... 8)

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gixxerific
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A bit OT but than again. I do trellis my cukes as I don't have enough room to not.

Talking about finding the hidden ones. My neighbor tells me I have a cuke in his wood pile. :shock: I'm like what? SO I go out there and an errant vine has gone through the fence, they do that you know. But there is a cucumber (a big one) that has grown into and through the wood pile. Half outside the pile half inside. They kind of go where they want. :lol:

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jal_ut
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[img]https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/garden_2010.jpg[/img]

I got up on the shed for this shot showing the whole veggie garden. On the left, you can see one strawberry bed and some asparagus ferns.

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lakngulf
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What a beautiful picture jal. Looks like a postcard. You will have to start a bed, bread and breakfast so we can all come visit, at a reduced rate of course.

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gixxerific
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Very amazing James. Everything is so lush and green. I don't know how you do it. :lol:

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Ozark Lady
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I am still reeling from the comment on August 15th, about a month until frost?
Yikes! Short season!
I am still planting, transplanting and amending the beds!
In about a month I will begin construction of new cold frames.
And I will have lots of time to get them going before I need to use them.
I notice less bugs already, so soon, I will be able to get this garden going, now if it would only remember how to rain!

It rained the other day, for about 10 seconds, there were splatters on the topmost leaves, but not enough to hit the ground! :cry: You had to look fast or you wouldn't have seen it.

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applestar
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lakngulf wrote:What a beautiful picture jal. Looks like a postcard. You will have to start a bed, bread and breakfast so we can all come visit, at a reduced rate of course.
:lol: I was thinking a bus tour across North America, picking up members along the way -- stop at jal's, maybe marlingardeners' too, tomf's, take a ferry over to DoubleDog's.... :wink: Oh, DEFINITELY stop at Ozark Lady's so we can help her out with all that milk.... :lol:

One of these days, we'll have to do a group tour to Ecuador to visit Lorax. :wink: :wink:

LindsayArthurRTR
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I am SO IN!!! :!: :!: :!: :()

garden5
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Wow, really like the whole garden pic. Any blueberries?

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jal_ut
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Sorry no blueberries. They don't like our alkaline soil.

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Ozark Lady
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Some days, it would surely be nice to be able to fly, or like on Star Trek, just beam over here or there. That way we could all meet here or there.

Jal, you have gorgeous scenery. Do you ever take it for granted, or do you each time you look at it, go... awww!

Speaking of milk, it is too hot outside, so I guess I will go make some cheese, and get the pressure canner going with a load of milk. There is cheese to slice and freeze (frying cheese), and a cream cheese to flavor and mold, hmmm... what do you guys like for flavoring cream cheese?

The Kefir culture looks done, I have never before tried Kefir, I have Kefir grains enroute, but for now I have a culture only.

BP
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I belong to various hunting/fishing forums and then we have a few private ones too. Last winter we had a member travel from upstate NY to Michigan to ice fish Saginaw Bay and a couple other lakes. A few of us may be going to see him this winter. Last summer a couple from Wyoming made it for an event too. So I don't see why there couldn't be a gardeners meeting.

BP
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Hey Jal, I've read somewhere here that you keep bees. How far from the garden do you keep them? Just the latest of my researching.

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jal_ut
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Jal, you have gorgeous scenery. Do you ever take it for granted, or do you each time you look at it, go... awww!
I am constantly in awe of the beauty of our area. "Nature is awesome in its majesty, and marvelous in its detail." JAL

I lug my camera around everywhere I go. I have lots of pictures of this area. Some are on facebook. search for jaloft at hotmail dot com.

The bees are not far from the garden. 100 feet at most. I never need to worry about the zucchini getting pollinated. :D

SECRETGARDEN
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To: Greener Thumb -- You've done a fantastic job on your garden! (...and so nice and neat too! I love to see gardens well taken care of.) This may sound a bit naive...but is the drip irrigation just too cost prohibitive for 1.5 acres? I have been doing some planning for the future (possible purchase or rental of acreage) and was wondering about the drip irrigation issue with between 1 to 3 acres. (I live in n.e. Wisconsin also with a growing season from mid-May to sometimes early October.) Thanking in advance for your comments.

garden5
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jal_ut wrote:Sorry no blueberries. They don't like our alkaline soil.

Aww, too bad :(. Although, I'm wondering if heavy additions of compost and some sulfur couldn't fix that :wink:.

SECRETGARDEN
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Sorry I didn't read all of your other posts before I wrote mine. That makes a lot of sense why you're watering the way you are (instead of the drip irrigation). (2 yrs. ago I planted a garden on the so. side of a home where I was temporarily housesitting. (Now I just plant tons of pots on my large patio.) I only used a water hose at the house & watered about every other day or so. The plants produced like crazy in Sept. but then got hit with blight in October. (My local extension has ways of preventing that so it was a learning lesson.) Anyway, I keep reading about watering tomato plants only below their foliage so that's what I do for my plants in the pots. I have no disease and no pests so far. (I DO, however, have earwigs living in my tomato pots & in my bell pepper pots. They were only eating the bell pepper plant leaves (& not too much damage) but now they're working on the peppers which are growing beautifully ...boring their way inside the pepper (with a perfect cylindrical hole) (only 1 baby pepper got damaged like that so far but I'm afraid there will be more). (I have not used any treatments on my plants so far. Any suggestions 2.5 mos. into the growing season?) I've heard that "Garlic Barrier" (Gempelers sells it online) -applied right in the beginning when plants are small is a great natural preventative for many pests but that it couldn't hurt if applied now when plants are 2-3 ft. high. Any opinion on that? (I've also tried putting clean metal tuna cans into the soil with veg. oil in them to trap the ugly little buggers but no luck so far w/that. The oil killed lge. dark moths & a few wasps but that's it.) Even though this isn't the "pest" part of the forum, I just thought I'd throw this part in there since I like your approach to gardening! Back to your garden, I TOTALLY agree...that since you have a garden that is SO healthy, don't change a thing!
I have been having a hard time understanding all this marketing hype in recent yrs. about packing more into less space. Your post hit the nail on the head. Plants need room for multiple reasons! I'm with you 100%! Keep on...keeping on! :D

garden5
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Jal, do you plant any winter crops or cover-crops? How about any garlic?

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jal_ut
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No winter crops here. We get hard frost about mid September and nothing grows after that except icicles. My fall crop was planted first week of July. Corn. It should make it about October 1, even after the laeves get frozen.

Garlic yes, and also shallots and Egyptian onions. I didn't plant any cover crops this season. I haven't had much space free up yet and we are only 2 or 3 weeks from frost. Right now I am just hoping my tomatoes will get ripe. I will probably have to cover them as usual and ripen them under wraps.

Tonight's Full Moon
[img]https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/moon_aug_23_10.jpg[/img]

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jal_ut
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Diatomaceous Earth will get the earwigs.

I also hunt them with a spray bottle filled with soapy water. It doesn't take a lot of soap. Maybe a tablespoonful in a kitchen spray bottle. Go out at night with a flashlight. They are night creatures and hide up in the daytime.

garden5
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Garlic, shallots, and top-set onions are kind of what I meant by "winter crops." They grow through the winter and you can harvest in the summer.

I know how you feel with the cover crops. I leave most of my plants in right up until frost, so by the time I get space...it's almost too late.

One of the ideas I've read of is to plant 2 gardens, and alternate between them each year, growing veg in one and cover crops in another.....something I'd do if I had the land.

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jal_ut
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[img]https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/medley.jpg[/img]

lily51
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Great garden! Whatever you're doing, keep on keepin' on. You obviously love to garden and do it well.
As for the size, it may be large by today's city standards, but here in the country where we live, large gardens are not unusual.
By the way, what beautiful sunsets you have.

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jal_ut
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One of the ideas I've read of is to plant 2 gardens, and alternate between them each year, growing veg in one and cover crops in another.....something I'd do if I had the land.
That would work great. A cover crop is a great way to get loads of organic matter.

I have plenty of space to do that, but have found I can keep the soil fertrility up by adding lots of organic matter each season. I like to do my deep tilling in the fall and till in the organic matter then. I don't like to deep till in the spring. The soil is too wet and if tilled it turns to clods.

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lakngulf
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Beautiful picture of your harvest, Jal, what beautiful colors. Not only do you do a great job with your garden, you also document it well to share with the rest of us. We can almost taste it!

I have a second (and third) crop of straight neck squash---2nd is producing and 3rd has just sprouted. Still hot in Alabama so I have to make sure they have water, and some plants do that make it.

garden5
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jal_ut wrote:
One of the ideas I've read of is to plant 2 gardens, and alternate between them each year, growing veg in one and cover crops in another.....something I'd do if I had the land.
That would work great. A cover crop is a great way to get loads of organic matter.

I have plenty of space to do that, but have found I can keep the soil fertrility up by adding lots of organic matter each season. I like to do my deep tilling in the fall and till in the organic matter then. I don't like to deep till in the spring. The soil is too wet and if tilled it turns to clods.
I guess as long as you're adding organic matter, be it grown in the garden (cover crops) or elsewhere (leaves, grass, hay, etc.) you're on the right track.

Oh, and great harvest pic. Must have taken you pretty long to arrange it.

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jal_ut
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Sorry, since Photobucket dumped us on our heads, none of my pics are visible.

Image

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jal_ut
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I do have some pictures on this site if you are interested? Also a cookbook.

https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/

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jal_ut
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Photobucket is a goner. I do have some things on another site if you are interested: https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/

Be sure to check out the Lofthouse Family Cookbook

pow wow
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I hear you about Photobucket. Holding my pictures for ransom, I sent them a nasty email and told them there's no way I'm paying them hundreds of dollars a year. I also told them to enjoy my pictures.
So I've gone to flickr, I wish I had never gone with photobucket in the first place.

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jal_ut
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pow wow, I deleted all my photos on Photobucket. I am not leaving them there for them to do as they will with them. I have some stuff with flickr too, but they seem a bit cranky about using them for 3rd party hosting. What other options are out there?



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