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Worst Garden Ever




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41 posts • Page 2 of 3 • 1, 2, 3

Wed May 12, 2010 12:38 pm

jal_ut wrote:
but the majority of the top layer is compost and composted manure.


Manure and compost are great soil amendments. I said soil. Yes, soil is that wonderful layer that covers much of the earth and is what plants grow in. Start with Soil then add a bit of manure or compost. An inch of manure or compost is plenty if mixed in well. If your soil is heavy in clay, add some sand to loosen it up.

Manure and compost are very close to the same thing; partially digested organic matter. Rich in plant nutrients, but too "hot" for good growing by themselves. I have seen garden plots ruined for two years by the application of too much manure. Nothing would grow. ("If a little manure or compost is good, a whole lot is better." is a poor assumption. )

Most soils contain clay, silt, sand, humus, organic matter, chemicals, water, and a host of living organisms: bacteria, yeasts, fungi, worms, and insects. A vital part of soil is the mineral part, sand silt and clay. I think too many gardeners try to make phony soil and forget or ignore this requirement.

Our goal should be to improve our soil, not try to make soil. Have you ever wondered how long it took to make the soil that covers this earth? Have you taken a moment to see the bounty that grows in real soil?

May I suggest that we start with real soil and amend it with the goal of improving its fertility?


Getting back to gardening after a long hiatus, and doing raised bed gardening versus till and row for the first time, I am learning this personally. Thanks for your post.

Kelly
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Wed May 12, 2010 1:26 pm

RBG yes some have tomatoes on them and they are somewhat greening up. Those in the pics are not the same ones I took before when I was wondering what was wrong with them. They still look bad but slightly getting better. Also quite a few of the ones with tomatoes are only about a foot out of the ground. I almost think the tomatoes are slowing the plant down that could be another thing.

Jal I understand I went overboard and that may be the main concerning factor here. If I would have tilled it all in together I believe it would be doing better. That was my goal to till it all in than I decided to try without tilling. There is somewhat virgin soil at the bottom of the holes but since they are being transplanted the roots will grow more laterally than straight down.

BrianS I'm am hoping once thing warm up they will skyrocket. They were planted pretty early.

Jbest I had them in gallon pots, but some were about 2 feet give or take. Yes they were a bit rootbound. Hoping they will figure it out.

All I know right now that this is the worst garden I have ever had and am not liking it. Even last year in some fairly crappy soil I had mammoth tomatoes and other veggies that simply took over the place. I know next year will be good I think, of course I thought this year was going to be great. But as some of you have said it's not over yet.
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Wed May 12, 2010 1:30 pm

It might actually be the manure. Crops have been devastated all over the UK because of residues of chemical herbicides that pass through animal guts unchanged, end up in the manure and go on to kill and maim plants everwhere. It's a huge contamination scandal that is also affecting the US:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... griculture

http://www.rachelcarsoncouncil.org/inde ... rt--update

Possible? :(
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Wed May 12, 2010 1:33 pm

Man, Gix, that really stinks! From reading what everyone else has said, it does sound like it may be the compost. Did you till it or just layer it on top (I think you just layered it)? One thing that's coming to my mind is that it wasn't completely finished. I've read that compost should sit for at least a month after it looks ready to use.

The bacterial may be drawing nutrients (nitrogen) from the soil to continue breaking down the organic material.

You may also need a string of nice weather, too. Some warmth may be what you garden is waiting for.

Just sit tight, I'm sure everything will work out great.
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Wed May 12, 2010 1:38 pm

Possible delilah but unlikely. I have been getting free manure from this same place for 10+ years and have never had a problem.

If it ever stops raining here I will try to rough up the soil a bit.

But I believe this fall I will get a load of topsoil an till in. After mixing the garden real good. The microbiology will just to make a comeback. I know there will be worms because there are so frigging many now. I shouldn't have gone no-till so soon in my newer gardens progress.

Yeah G5 It was basically just layered on. It was pretty well finished. Still warm but nice and crumbly like good compost should be. I did let it sit for a month or so as well before planting.
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Wed May 12, 2010 2:04 pm

Gixx, be careful with hauling in topsoil.

I hauled one load and it is junk, plain and simply, now residing in my compost bin for the bacteria and worms to fix it. The second load is better, but really, not as good as my own garden soil.

I would just use hay to mulch and wait and see.
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Wed May 12, 2010 2:06 pm

gixxerific wrote:Possible delilah but unlikely. I have been getting free manure from this same place for 10+ years and have never had a problem.

If it ever stops raining here I will try to rough up the soil a bit.



W/regard to the manure situation in Britain, that was in 2008. It took several months (from March to perhaps June or July) for the chain of contamination to be figured out, but I haven't read anything since then about a recurrence. Thank goodness.

And, gixx, I think the major clue to your garden's performance is your own words..."If it ever stops raining here..." The soil is water-logged and the plants are cold. Nashville has flooded, middle Tennessee is soaked. The weather patterns are weird (again). Plant roots need air to breathe just like people and animals do.

It could be as basic as this.

Cynthia
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Wed May 12, 2010 2:48 pm

OL thanks for the heads up on topsoil. But I know a few good places around to get stuff and I know a LOT of bad places. :lol: I always check it out first. Last year my neighbor bought some locally, I wish he would have talked to me first I would have told him not to go there. But he ended up with wild onions taking over his flower bed.

Cynthia thanks for your advice but again I don't think it was over watering. It has been weekend rains here and this soil/compost drains rather well. Just this week is a sever thunderstorm every day for a week straight. Some places got over 2 inches in a little over an hour this morning. That will not help but before this it was about right I even had to water a few times.

All in all I think it will be alright eventually I have never had this slow of a start before.

Now on to a thread about possible early blight on my spuds. :lol: Will it ever stop. At least I haven't seen any bad bugs yet, last year was my worst bug year ever.
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Wed May 12, 2010 3:35 pm

Quick question: Have you fractured/forked the underlying soil?
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Wed May 12, 2010 3:55 pm

applestar wrote:Quick question: Have you fractured/forked the underlying soil?


I dug pretty deep into the clay if that is what you mean. I did break it up a bit than threw in some loose soil/compost before putting in the plants. I did mix it up a bit at least the top layer with a shovel and rake.
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Wed May 12, 2010 4:22 pm

Nope. I meant when you were layering on the manure/compost. Plunge the garden fork in as far as it would go, and wiggle. I stand on mine to get the tines into the clay, then sway a bit before stepping off and yanking it out. About every big step in all directions. -- My standard prep before sheet mulching a lawn area. The holes made by the tines as well as the fracturing creates fissures for the worms and other soil organisms to travel -- they make their own cross tunnels. All that fissuring and tunneling creates micro-passageways for the air, water, nutrients, and microbes to penetrate deeper into the clay and begin the conversion into good soil.

In my garden, the moles follow the worms and make even more tunnels that then presumably get flooded with each rain, washing even more good stuff into the clay. The plant roots will follow the fissures and tunnels -- I really don't have to dig around much and by the end of the season, there's nice fluffy soil. Then, of course, I don't pull out the plants but cut them at soil level, leaving all those roots to break down in the soil to whatever depth and root growth pattern they made.
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Wed May 12, 2010 4:31 pm

"Then, of course, I don't pull out the plants but cut them at soil level, leaving all those roots to break down in the soil to whatever depth and root growth pattern they made."

That sounds like a nice idea.. So far when the tomatoes and peppers and stuff are done for the season, I have pulled them out roots and all. Put the soft stuff in the compost pile, let the stuff that is too tough and woody dry out for awhile and then run thru the chipper/shredder, then compost.

When you leave the roots in the ground in the fall, have they mostly broken down by the next spring's planting, or are there still root clumps sitting around under ground? The latter result would deter me a bit, since I just have my few raised beds, I can't just go plant somewhere else while I wait for the roots to finish breaking down.

Thanks! RBG
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Wed May 12, 2010 4:47 pm

rainbowgardener wrote:"Then, of course, I don't pull out the plants but cut them at soil level, leaving all those roots to break down in the soil to whatever depth and root growth pattern they made."

That sounds like a nice idea.. So far when the tomatoes and peppers and stuff are done for the season, I have pulled them out roots and all. Put the soft stuff in the compost pile, let the stuff that is too tough and woody dry out for awhile and then run thru the chipper/shredder, then compost.

When you leave the roots in the ground in the fall, have they mostly broken down by the next spring's planting, or are there still root clumps sitting around under ground? The latter result would deter me a bit, since I just have my few raised beds, I can't just go plant somewhere else while I wait for the roots to finish breaking down.

Thanks! RBG

Its a good idea to leave the roots in place. The Mycorrhizal Fungi colonize on the roots which will stimulate next years roots. The only part that I can find in the spring is the main stem which will pull out easily.
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Wed May 12, 2010 4:49 pm

No i didn't do the fork method I don't own one though I would like to get one if I ever start working again.

I also cut off plants at soil level and leave the roots to rot. Though not tomatoes since they are known to harbor disease plus they take forever to break down.
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Wed May 12, 2010 5:39 pm

gix, I would just give it some time. I think we need some warm weather. I understand you are trying to go the no-till way. May I suggest this fall after frost, you till it deeply one more time and mix some of the underlaying soil/clay with the top material. The addition of a little sand would be good at this time too. By spring things will be fine. Then you can go with no-till and add mulch and a little compost or manure each season. The bio community will work the organic matter into the soil. The roots of plants go quite deep and this also adds organic matter to the underlying layers. You should have a great garden next year. I think things are a little out of balance right now.

Clay is not all bad. A soil with about 1/4 clay is great in fact. The clay holds water well and comes in close contact with the root hairs so the roots can absorb the water and nutrients. Clay, silt and sand work together to eliminate large air pockets which allow roots to dry out. Also the clay, silt and sand provide many minerals that your plants need.

You don't need to worry about disturbing the bio community by tilling to mix your soil ingredients together and incorporate organic matter. The spores of those organisms are everywhere. They will take off and grow if given the oportunity and a favorable environment.
Last edited by jal_ut on Thu May 13, 2010 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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