streetskaterln91
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Companion Planting Questions

Hi everyone.. I'm new to the site and new to the gardening world as well.. so I'm hoping I can get some straight answers from this site. Ive read a lot on the internet, but some information is inconcistent, or doesnt make sense... you guys know how the internet is. So what I planned to do, is list the veggies and stuff I planned on planting in the garden, and I was hoping someone could tell me the best companion planting method based on what I have.

To start off, my garden will overall be about ten feet by 20 ft, and I was thinking of starting off with 6 raised garden boxes measuring either 4 feet by 4 feet or 4 feet by 6 feet, depending on the advice I get here and the space I will need.

I have 6 cucumber plants, and 9 tomato plants inside that are about 6 weeks old, as well as 6 bell peppers that are about 4 weeks old, and only 2 green beans that are about 3 weeks. I also have 4 banana pepper plants that are only about a week old. Also, I have 2 watermelon plants about 4 weeks old, I know they are not supposed to be easy to grow but I just figured I'd give it a try.
Now, for seeds, I have broccoli, carrot, peas, lettuce (romaine), and some other varieties of garden beans.
I have read a lot about companion planting as I was planning on getting some basil to put with tomatoes and peppers.. maybe some onions as well, and I have heard that nasturtium is supposed to be good for many veggies.

my questions to all of you, are as follows... first of all, how close or far away should companion plants be in order for them to benefit each other?
what would be the best to border my beds with to prevent bugs, insects, etc, especially for my tomatoes and cucumbers?
also, any other herbs or veggies that are suggested to help the garden overall I will also consider planting. I'm basically just having trouble planning this out becuase it is my first time and like I said I have gotten so much inconsistent imformation off random websites that I have kinda overloaded my brain and lost track of what is good to do and what is bad..

so hopefully I remembered everything I wanted to ask... I'm sure once I start getting some answers then I will only have more questions, but I appreciate ANY help in advance.. so thank you all and I look forward to discussing this with you all.
I'm the type of person that wants to get this done right the first time, or at least done right in theory. I realize this takes a lot of experience and observation, but I'm basically looking for a good basic layout that should work best. By the way, I live in western NC and I plan on moving my plants outside and starting the seeds in mid-may..

DoubleDogFarm
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Welcome :D

I will touch on the box layout and leave the companion planting to someone else.

I would layout (4) 3ft wide by 10ft long boxes in your 10 x20 space. Run them North - South if possible. 3ft wide box, 2ft path, 3ft wide box, 2ft path, so on and so on.

streetskaterln91
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problem is, the 10 foot side is the one that runs north and south, the 20 ft runs east and west. I kinda wanted to sort out the companion planting before the boxes so I know the best way to do it like I said. but thanks for the ideas

thats anothe thing I forgot to mention, is that I want to plan it out the best so that the proper plants are on the north and south sides, etc..

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rainbowgardener
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That's a lot of questions.... it is hard to just give some one years of experience. But I will make a stab at getting started and maybe other people can keep moving it forward.

To start with one thing beginners often don't think about is timing. Here's the list of plants you gave:

"I have 6 cucumber plants, and 9 tomato plants inside that are about 6 weeks old, as well as 6 bell peppers that are about 4 weeks old, and only 2 green beans that are about 3 weeks. I also have 4 banana pepper plants that are only about a week old. Also, I have 2 watermelon plants about 4 weeks old, I know they are not supposed to be easy to grow but I just figured I'd give it a try.
Now, for seeds, I have broccoli, carrot, peas, lettuce (romaine), and some other varieties of garden beans. "


All the seeds except for the beans are cool weather crops that started early and tend to fizzle out when it gets hot. I started my broccoli seeds about mid Jan and transplanted them into the garden mid march. They have little heads on them now. And I am north of you. If it were me I would skip all of those (except maybe the carrots, which don't fade out in the heat as much and do take awhile) for now, save the seeds and plant them near the end of summer for a fall crop.

Here's a planting schedule for zone 7-8 (looks like you are zone 7):
https://www.thevegetablegarden.info/resources/planting-schedules/zones-7-8-planting-schedule. It's just to give some general guidelines to get you started. It is about when to plant the seeds.

In deciding when to move things into the garden, it is based on two things -- is the weather/ soil temp outside right for it and are the plants big enough? Saying it is 2 or 4 weeks old doesn't give me much hint about that, because I don't know how fast your seedlings grew or what conditions you were growing them under.

So you have cucumber, beans (2 bean plants is hardly any!), tomatoes, peppers, watermelon. The cucumber and watermelon are the last to get planted. They are warm weather plants, that like the soil all nice and warmed up. The watermelon isn't particularly hard to grow, it just takes up a LOT of space.

If the tomatoes and peppers are big enough (I.e minimum about 4" tall and at least two sets of true leaves, preferably a little more), they could be planted in the ground now. Be sure you harden them off well first - gradually get them adapted to outdoor conditions.

Companions for the tomatoes are as you mentioned, basil, onions, garlic, and nasturtium, also marigold. The title of a book I have on companion planting is carrots love tomatoes. So plant a row of your carrot seeds down the outside edge of the tomato bed. Onions garlic and marigold are good companion plants for most veggies, help keep pests away. I scatter them all through my garden.

The cucumbers grow well with beans, one being horizontal and one vertical. Plant some more beans directly in the ground (after soaking them for 24 hrs). They are fast sprouting and growing and don't need to be started indoors. Later in the summer you can plant some lettuce for fall crop in with the cucumbers. It will give the lettuce some shade while it is still hot.

The onions garlic marigold are good around the peppers too (don't plant peppers with tomatoes) as well as anything aromatic, ie marjoram, tansy, etc.

The watermelon is going to get huge and probably should just have a bed all its own.

Hopefully this will help you get started.

streetskaterln91
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rainbowgardener, thanks for all that information. I realized I left out some details as I was waiting to see how many replies I would get. first off, my tomatoes and cucumbers are more than big enough to go outside, and the peppers I am going to wait a few more weeks for. when the weather is warmer, I will plant the cucumbers outside. the tomatoes I will probably consider putting them out sometime this week if I have the chance, after hardening them off some more of course.

the indoor conditions, they have a fan on them, it is a small room, but I have been hardening them off about a few hours a day the past few days to get them ready. I will probably put them out next week if you think all dangers of frost are past by now.. I just moved up here too so I'm not familiar with all that..

I realize 2 bean plants are hardly any, but as I said I have other varieties of seeds left still, and at the moment I am only one person..

so you are suggesting I wait to plant the lettuce until mid summer? I guess that would be easiest for me as a beginer too to wait until the cukes are bigger and the leaves shade the ground, as you mentioned.

also, here is an example of what I was having some trouble with.. tomatoes are supposed to be about a foot apart, and as I said I want to put some basil with them.. even tho the tomato plants are supposed to be further apart, can I still plant them a foot apart with basil inbetween them? or will they still benefit the tomatoes from the other end of the bed?

I'm sorry if this seems a bit inconsistent and may not make much sense... my mind is kind of burnt out from working on this and thinking about it the past few days. but again, thank you for the advice..

by the way, how is this for an idea: after putting the cucumbers outside, I will run them up a trellis that surrounds the box basically, and then plant the beans and peas in the same box so they kinda grow together.. or is that a bad plan?

I hope I covered everything.. I'm still having a bit of trouble planning the layout (so far I have a 4x6 box for tomatoes, etc, and another 4x6 box that will be for the cucumbers, etc.. the remaining space in the garden will probably be flled with smaller boxes, and one for the watermelon by itself as u said. by the way, do you know of good companions for broccoli? I may start those this week as well if I can get the boxes ready, but I need to plan on how big of a box to build..

this is enough ramble for now.. I look forward to talking again. PM me if it would be an easier form of communication for you. thanks again!

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applestar
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Basil should be planted IN FRONT of tomatoes, not between them. In a North-South bed, the "front" would be the long edges and along the center of the bed would the the "back" with taller plants. In East-West bed, the "front" would be the South side and "back" would be the North side.

Lettuce and Peas -- I really have to agree with rainbowgardener that you are probably better off waiting until FALL -- like September -- unless you're talking about Southern peas, which are planted and grown like beans.

Broccoli for fall planting, I'm supposed to start seeds in mid-June to plant out by mid-July or direct sow by mid-July. You would probably do this a little bit later -- maybe 2 weeks. I'm telling you this, but I'm still trying to get fall planting to work. It's another dimension in space planning and timing when you still have productive plants in the ground. :roll:

Watermelons and cukes -- I realize you have transplants started, but you could direct sow seeds in the ground now.

SaulsX
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Can't help with the raised beds, but I'm doing the companion planting thing.

I use marigolds, nasturtium, zinnia and sunflowers throughout my container garden and the raised bed I pieced together. Marigold is said to deter nematodes and aphids, and I've yet to see aphids around anything planted near marigolds. I have marigolds with all of my tomato plants and a border of marigolds and zinnia in the raised bed. Zinnias, aside from adding color to the garden, attract beneficial insects, like bees and small wasps. Nasturtium is supposed to add to flavor and growth, but I use it as a potential trap crop for aphids. Plus, I just like them.

I use sunflowers as support for a couple of cucumbers. Sunflowers do attract aphids, though, but I got rid of an infestation by putting some ladybugs on the plants. They almost immediately went to work on getting rid of them. I also have some chives that I use as a barrier for some carrots, and scattered some radish seeds with the carrot seeds (read that the radish will germinate quickly and loosen the soil for the small carrot seeds). I planted corn, cucumber and beans (Blue lake pole stringless) together. The corn provides support for the beans and cucumber, the beans fix nitrogen in the soil.

The spacing of the plants depends on the root system of each plant. I have a large container with a tomato plant (Brandywine), a few marigolds, and a zinnia plant (tomato in the middle, marigolds around the "front" of the tomato, zinnia in the "rear"). Even though the plants are within inches of each other, everything seems to be healthy. In another large container, I have a tomato plant (Carolina gold), along with marigolds, zinnia and basil. The tomato has gotten huge and appears healthy, the basil leaves are huge (already using the leaves in pasta sauces), I haven't seen aphids anywhere near the tomato plant, and I've seen bees attracted to the zinnia, so all must be well. I would just find out the root needs of each plant and space accordingly.

Yes, the broccoli, peas and lettuce are all cool season plants, best for spring and fall, so save the broccoli and lettuce seeds for cooler weather. I'd consider doing a fall garden (I'd probably plant August or September here) with broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, lettuce, spinach and peas. Peas will fix nitrogen in the soil and provide shade for the spinach and lettuce, and we regularly eat broccoli, cauliflower and carrots. I'd also plant some petunias, calendula (pot marigold), and maybe some nasturtium in the fall garden.

The peppers should do well doubling as ornamentals, adding some color to your garden. There seems to be contradictory info about planting peppers and tomatoes together, but I'd probably want to keep them away from each other since they're both susceptible to early and late blight.

Hope that helps.

streetskaterln91
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yeah thanks you guys.. that does help. I designed a layout for my beds the other day.. I'm thinking of putting the tomatoes in the back as mentioned, but in 2 or 3 rows, but more like a pyramid so they are kinda in between each other you know... then put the basil (depending on how much space they require) in the middle of the tomato plants.. I'm pretty sure ive seen it done and although ive heard to keep them farther apart I think I will try some closer together. in the front of the bed I will scatter carrots and onions, and on the outside border of the bed I will put nasturtium. Question about that though.. does it have to be INSIDE the bed to benefit the tomatoes, or will a border on the outside of the bed have the same effect?

considering this is my first garden.. I think I will take the advice and save the cold weather plants for a fall garden.. that way I can at least get a little experience with the plants I have now before overloading myself at first..

I am in the process of growing sunflowers as well, and I was hoping to put them in the cucumber bed in order to provide them support so I can save money/space on extra trellis... I'm just hoping the sunflowers grow large enough in the next few weeks to be able to support the cucumber plants, which are significantly bigger at this point.

I also have a packet of marigold seeds... do you all think it is a decent idea to mix in the marigold with the nasturtium as the bed borders around both boxes? I figured it would deter aphids from the suflowers/cucumbers, and improve growth at the same time..

I suppose thats all for now.. thanks again and as always I look forward to anyone who would like to add some input. Thanks everyone

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jal_ut
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I'm basically just having trouble planning this out becuase it is my first time and like I said I have gotten so much inconsistent imformation off random websites that I have kinda overloaded my brain and lost track of what is good to do and what is bad..
Amen to that! You can get all sorts of conflicting infromation and lots of stuff that is more folk lore than fact. Here is my take on it.

DoubleDogFarm gave you good advice on the layout of your beds. Which direction they run is not important. In summer the sun is high overhead and will reach all your plants regardless of the direction your beds run.

Yes, it is too late for the cool crops in your area. Good advice to plant them for a fall crop.

Lots has been written about companions. For the most part you can ignore all of it. What is important to the plants is to have space to grow. Room for leaves to gather sunshine and room for root development. A determinate tomato for example will have vines up to 3 feet long and several of them. If you train them up with a cage or stake, they will need a space 2 feet x 2 feet. So planting them 2 feet apart works. However if you don't train them up and just let them sprawl, they will need to be planted at least 3 feet apart. Indeterminate tomatoes get even bigger and need more space. They will continue to grow until they get frozen and in your climate can get 12 feet tall if trained up.

If you can get information on how large each variety gets, then you will know how much space to leave per plant. Seed packets often have guidelines on how far to space, and planting times etc.

If you want to grow green beans, here is what I would suggest. Plant two rows in one of your 3 foot wide beds and put the seeds 4 inches apart in the rows. You can plant bush types so you don't need trellising.

For cucumbers, plant one row down the center of your 3 foot wide bed and put a seed every 4 inches. It may be a little late for cukes, even though they are a warm weather plant, they don't do well if the temp gets to 100 degrees. How hot does it get there in July? Any way, this planting of cukes will give you plenty for pickles and fresh eating. the vines will come out both sides of the bed and cover the walk way too. If you want to make a trellis on one side of a bed, you can plant the cukes to one side and train them up the trellis leaving room on the other side of the bed for a row of bush beans. This is an example of a companion planting where the legume may provide some additional nitrogen for the cukes.

The possibilities are endless, but just remember that each plant needs its own space if it is to perform well for you. My idea of companion planting is 3 rows of corn next to 3 rows of beans. Not beans intermingled with, and in competition with, corn.

Just relax and enjoy your garden Don't get all stressed out over the endless amount of information you can find on the internet, and remember, "The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow."

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jal_ut
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BTW, sunflowers are allelopathic to other broad leaved plants. In other words, they emit chemicals that discourage the growth of other broad leaved plants. They do not inhibit grasses or corn. This is why farmers follow sunflowers with corn, to inhibit the growth of weeds.

DoubleDogFarm
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Jal-ut,

I was waiting to see if plant health was brought up and you kind of touch on it.

I don't do the companion planting, not deliberately anyway. I feel soil health is far more important. Healthy soil = Healthy plants. It's the sickly plants that are more accessible to insects and diseases.

SaulsX
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Just trying to make sense of what you said, Jal_ut, and save needless confusion. You said ignore everything that's been written about companion planting, then gave advice on companion planting, like beans can help cukes by fixing nitrogen in the soil, or sunflowers can inhibit the growth of weeds. Sounds like companion planting to me, but should I and the original poster ignore what you just wrote?

Yes, there is a lot of info about companion planting, and some of it's contradictory and questionable. I practice techniques, for the most part, that I've had success with so far. Other times, it's a big experiment. That's part of the joy of gardening for me, is experimenting. How will I know if my ideas, based on info I've researched and tried to verify, will work if I don't try anything new? Go with what you want to grow, what you'll use in the kitchen, what you'll enjoy growing, harvesting, and/or smelling and seeing, then maybe try some containers or a smaller bed for testing out some of your companion planting ideas if you're not sure about what's going to work or not.

Otherwise, good tips all around.

DoubleDogFarm
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BTW, sunflowers are allelopathic to other broad leaved plants. In other words, they emit chemicals that discourage the growth of other broad leaved plants. They do not inhibit grasses or corn. This is why farmers follow sunflowers with corn, to inhibit the growth of weeds
I believe jal-ut, (James is it :?: ) is talking crop rotation here, not companion planting. Sunflowers follow corn, not planted together.

I do the nitrogen fixing in my orchard. A healthy orchard should have about 10% nitrogen fixers planted through out. I also broadcast about 10lbs of clover every year.

SaulsX
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jal_ut wrote:Lots has been written about companions. For the most part you can ignore all of it.

If you want to grow green beans, here is what I would suggest. Plant two rows in one of your 3 foot wide beds and put the seeds 4 inches apart in the rows. You can plant bush types so you don't need trellising.

If you want to make a trellis on one side of a bed, you can plant the cukes to one side and train them up the trellis leaving room on the other side of the bed for a row of bush beans. This is an example of a companion planting where the legume may provide some additional nitrogen for the cukes.
Beans fix nitrogen in the soil, which can help the cukes. Companion planting... streetskater was also talking about planting sunflowers and using them to support cukes. Sounds like another form of companion planting to me. If the two can grow well together in those conditions, I don't see anything wrong with using that method, instead of using a trellis, cage, spiral, etc.

I see what you're saying about following corn w/sunflowers. Just sounded like he meant that you plant corn, then plant sunflowers so the two grow together and the sunflower keeps weeds from coming up around the corn, which also sounds like companion planting to me.

DoubleDogFarm
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If you want to make a trellis on one side of a bed, you can plant the cukes to one side and train them up the trellis leaving room on the other side of the bed for a row of bush beans. This is an example of a companion planting where the legume may provide some additional nitrogen for the cukes.
Again talking for jal_ut, I hope he chimes back in soon. I think he was talking more on orientation then companion planting. I also believe that most of the nitrogen is not released until death of the bean-pea plants.

SaulsX
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I'm going to bow out of this topic since that's all the input I can offer on streetskater's original questions. Everybody provided some good info and suggestions, and even gave me some ideas.

Just sounded confusing, especially if you're new to gardening, want to experiment and are unsure of where/how to start. Jal-ut did say, though, to forget everything you've ever read about companion planting, but gave advice on what to plant together. Beans can help cucumbers, sunflowers can help corn - that's companion planting.

Thanks.

streetskaterln91
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yeah ive pretty much made a decision.. like I said, I have 2 beds made now, each 4 ft by 6ft. for one, I plan on putting a row of tomatoes in the back, and another row in front of that one, but in between the placing of the back row's plants. then possible another row in front of this one if I need to use more space.

with the remaining foot in the front of the bed as well as the few feet I may have on the sides, I will plant onions, basil, and possibly carrots. on the outside of the bed I have bordered with nasturtium seeds. I'm hoping this bed will be successful if I keep it simple and allow the plants to have enough room to grow roots/make sure leaves get sun, ect.

with the other 4x6 box, I am still debating on (this will be the one with the cucumbers). I think I will do this: erect a trellis, about 5 1/2 feet long, a foot away from the back of the bed. this will leave room for me to plant a row or 2 of lettuce/carrots.. depending on how much shade that area gets and when I plant them. I may start out with carrots if it gets psoper sun, and wait till fall for the lettuce.
anyway, now I will have a trellis stretching across most of the box, closer to the back of the box. I will plant my 6 cucumber plants along this trellis. I was also thinking of possibly putting another trellis, about 2 1/2 - 3 ft long, perpendicular to the larger trellis, and plant beans on both sides of this trellis. with the remaining space, I will plant carrots around the edge of the bed, as well as maybe 2 or 3 sunflowers, in the bed but maybe not actually supporting any vines.. I will also border the outside of this bed with nasturtium and oregano, based on what I have read regarding pest repellents.

I believe thats everything for now... if anybody has any thoughts on these plans, please let me know. thank you all for your suggestions and support and I hope to see even more so I can continue to improve.

thanks everyone!

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jal_ut
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Just trying to make sense of what you said, Jal_ut, and save needless confusion. You said ignore everything that's been written about companion planting, then gave advice on companion planting, like beans can help cukes by fixing nitrogen in the soil, or sunflowers can inhibit the growth of weeds. Sounds like companion planting to me, but should I and the original poster ignore what you just wrote?
I could have elaborated a bit more on this I guess. My point is that you can entirely ignore the companion planting thing and have a fantastic garden. Experiment with these things if you wish, but don't go into a tizzy about it until you have some experience. Right now it is nothing to worry about.
I see what you're saying about following corn w/sunflowers. Just sounded like he meant that you plant corn, then plant sunflowers so the two grow together and the sunflower keeps weeds from coming up around the corn, which also sounds like companion planting to me.
When I said follow sunflowers with corn, I meant sunflowers this year, corn next year. Not planted together the same year. You can google "sunflower allelopathy" for more reading on this subject if you thirst for information.

As has been said, feed the soil. This is the one most important thing we as gardeners can do. To that I like to add: "Give your plants space to do their thing."

The best fertilizer is the gardeners shadow.

Joyfirst
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"Straight"answers in gardening don't exist, because a lot things come in play in a live situation like garden. And there are many ways to do it, even if all other conditions are the same. Life is not something you can predict 100 percent.
I personally love companion gardening, I think it does keep bug population in check and looks beautiful too!

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applestar
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What kind of sunflowers were you thinking, because taller varieties like Russian Gray Striped grows an enormous root system spreading in all directions (I doubt the carrots will be able to grow). That's how they try to keep from falling over. At the same time, they DO fall over and need to be staked. If you have the room, I would put the sunflowers in the gap BETWEEN the bed and that long trellis you're thinking of putting up, so you can tie the sunflowers to the trellis as necessary. At 6 feet, you can plant 3 giant sunflowers or 4 medium ones.

Can't visualize the first bed of tomatoes.

Make sure to take lots of pictures through the growing season. :D



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