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freedhardwoods
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Ozark Lady wrote:I don't own a tiller.

I have never owned a tiller.

Reason
1. I have rocks... rocks would break a tiller.
2. I have tree roots... roots would break a tiller.
3. I don't have the money to buy one.
I take exception to 2 of the 3 above.

1. I can till up a rock driveway with no problem.

2. I have hit more roots and various other solid objects than I could ever remember, usually yanking the 200 lb tiller right out of my hand. It has a kill switch so I don't have to run after it. After hitting something I will dig it out so I won't hit it again.

3. My tiller did cost a lot when I bought it 17 years ago (about $1800), but it was well worth the money. I am on the second set of tines and it still does a fantastic job. It is very easy to use; I guide it with one hand while walking beside it.


I am not going to try to change anyone's thinking or method of gardening, but I am going to continue to garden as I have for many years. I use very large amounts of sawdust to give the soil lots of organic matter, I use synthetic fertilizer, and I till the soil many times per year.

I really don't understand why people say a tiller compacts the soil. The soil in my garden used to be almost like concrete before I bought my tiller and started adding sawdust. Now it is very loose and rich, and my crops grow really well if given halfway decent weather. I have about 6000 sq ft of garden, and my tiller makes it fairly easy to take care of.

garden5
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Hmmm, I have a huge heap of leaves that has been sitting in a heap since fall, I think that I will spread them out over the garden once all the snow melts and "flip" them in, under the soil. I'm leery of mulching solely with whole leaves, since they seem to compact when wet. I'm kind of concerned that it would be detrimental to have something like that on your soil around your plants. It seems like a mulch should "breath," but this is just my thought, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

How do you feel about weeds, everyone? Do you let them grow rampant, someting I think should not be done, or do you just hit them with the hoe when they get to a few inches tall and let them lie. What do you do with your weeds, HG?

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Ozark Lady
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I suppose that as a kid I hit so many rocks, and roots with the lawnmower, that I assumed a tiller would be messed up also.

Since, I have never owned one, obviously I have no idea if they would or not... I did say... I have never owned one... never operated one... never gardened where one was ever used...

I did not post as an expert, but as an opinion and reason for not particularly wanting one.

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freedhardwoods
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Ozark Lady wrote:I suppose that as a kid I hit so many rocks, and roots with the lawnmower, that I assumed a tiller would be messed up also.

Since, I have never owned one, obviously I have no idea if they would or not... I did say... I have never owned one... never operated one... never gardened where one was ever used...

I did not post as an expert, but as an opinion and reason for not particularly wanting one.
You are generally right in your original statement, I just wanted to brag on my tiller :wink:. Most tillers on the market wouldn't be able to take that kind of abuse. Even Troybilt is just a cheap throwaway brand since MTD bought the company and ruined it. I have a Troybilt made when they were guaranteed for life. Ask anyone that owns an original. They don't break. :D

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gixxerific
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I agree with hardwoods I tilled a "grass" section of lawn today for a new bed and "tilled" up quite a few BIG rocks while I was doing it. Nothing to it just stop pick out the rocks and keep going.

Don't be scared it will all be good in the end.

cynthia_h
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garden5 wrote: How do you feel about weeds, everyone? Do you let them grow rampant, someting I think should not be done, or do you just hit them with the hoe when they get to a few inches tall and let them lie. What do you do with your weeds, HG?
Let's keep this thread on-topic re. tilling and its evident near-relatives, rocks and the downfall of Troybilt. :(

There is a mighty thread already in existence on weeds. I have been unregenerate in my treatment of them (as you'll see when/if you read completely through the 6-page thread). I know my enemies by name and I remove them--root, stem, and leaf. :twisted:

There are others who ... well ... want to let the weeds live in their gardens. To which I say, good luck, especially if those gardeners have dogs + weeds that generate burrs, thorns, stickers, and the like. (Indigenous plants are *not* by definition weeds; I'm pretty sure each of my enemies is non-native. They're def. invasive, and a couple are also "noxious.")

The intense (but not hostile; never fear! :D ) discussion is at https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21366

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

garden5
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cynthia_h wrote:
garden5 wrote: How do you feel about weeds, everyone? Do you let them grow rampant, someting I think should not be done, or do you just hit them with the hoe when they get to a few inches tall and let them lie. What do you do with your weeds, HG?
Let's keep this thread on-topic re. tilling and its evident near-relatives, rocks and the downfall of Troybilt. :(

There is a mighty thread already in existence on weeds. I have been unregenerate in my treatment of them (as you'll see when/if you read completely through the 6-page thread). I know my enemies by name and I remove them--root, stem, and leaf. :twisted:

There are others who ... well ... want to let the weeds live in their gardens. To which I say, good luck, especially if those gardeners have dogs + weeds that generate burrs, thorns, stickers, and the like. (Indigenous plants are *not* by definition weeds; I'm pretty sure each of my enemies is non-native. They're def. invasive, and a couple are also "noxious.")

The intense (but not hostile; never fear! :D ) discussion is at https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21366

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
Sorry about that...I just got way ahead of myself :oops:. We can post about mulching, though, right? After all, this thread is about tilling or not tilling. One of the alternatives to tilling is cover-cropping and mulching.

I guess I just started thinking about all the weeds that the mulch suppresses and wanted to deviate to talk abut them :lol:. I'll try to read the thread title before I post :wink:.

vermontkingdom
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Thanks for posting the links to Ruth Stout's videos. I just spent a very enjoyable 25 minutes watching them. What a remarkable person.

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Ozark Lady
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I thought about this thread today, as I planted a bed.

I took the leaf rake and got all the leaves off of it.

It even picked up alot of rocks and moved them right to my hands... ha ha

Then I switched to the garden rake, and raked across the bed... I was uprooting grass growing there from the mulch that I used in the goat bedding last year. It only took a few minutes.

Then I got my hand trowel to make rows... I had to laugh, they were crooked and only 4' long...

But, I had to dig deep enough to bury the onion bulbs up to the little tops... and I thought... hmm..

How deep is tilling?

Even in not tilling, you have to dig.. Is there a break off point?
Like over 6" deep is tilled? :lol:

Or is it the mechanized tilling that we are mostly dealing with?

I felt guilty... saying I don't till, and then digging to plant my onions!

But, I don't know how to grow onions above ground! :oops:

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Ruth threw her stuff on top of the soil and covered with straw...

FHW, you are adding some humus so it looks light and fluffy now, but you pulverize your soil a little more everytime you till it. DO it every year and soon you will have dust for parent material and whatever humus you introduce. But you can't put the grains of minerals back together once you break them...

We have lost 40% of the soil in the US since colonization, mostly from tilling...

HG

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Ozark Lady
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I use alot of leaves.

I have heard that they aren't so good.

But, it is using what I have available. And the soil in forests is not without life, or breathing, or even all clumped down. Not really. Sure, after a rain the leaves are soggy and clumped... but after a rain, so is straw, and so is soil.

So, I will continue to use leaves, (gotta get rid of them somehow, other than landfills!) What I need to know is how best to amend the leaves so that they are giving me the best soil possible.

I love the get a leaf pile, and bunch of kids together... ha now that is my kind of gardening... let the kids do it! I have been thinking of... cloth bags, filled with leaves, and the kids use them as clubs to hit each other with, perhaps knock each other off a 2x4 on the ground, modern day jousting? And I get shredded leaves... And no leaves scattered to rake up again! Would it work?

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gixxerific
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Straw will never get as "clumpy" as leaves or grass. Leaves are not bad they just take along time to break down being so high in carbon. They also make a more fungal humus when broken down.

I redid my bed yesterday some of you will be happy to know I didn't till it.
I did rake it up a bit to break up the horse cookies and mix in that layer with the grass and leave layer. Than I added a bunch of compost than mixed it together a bit than added another layer of compost on top of that. Now for some tea making I save a pile of compost just for that.

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OL leaves are just fine as long as you get lots of nitrogen in with the carbon (10:1 to 13:1 C/N). Manure is a fine way to do that, and between chickens and goats you should do just fine there. I might compost them together first, but you could sheet compost over the winter and be ready for spring anyway...

Gixx is right, straw won't clump; FUkuoka-san said you must be sure to throw it on "in disarray" and not in sheets so it lines up; additionall precaution against it compacting, but it is a fine idea and I will be buying bales this year to do my garden....

HG

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I second that you should mix in some nitrogen-heavy material with your leaves, this will help them break down better. It would probalbly alos be good to break them up smaller so that they can decompose faster,

As for me, I don't plant on mulching with leaves this spring mainly because they have been sitting in a soggy heap all winter, so I can't mow them and make them smaller, and I don't think that they are an ideal stand-alone mulch. They seem to get too compacted with the rain. I could be wrong, but this looks like an invitation for some aerobic microbes and disease.

I think I will go with grass clippings all across the board, this year. I think that the first benefit the mulch will provide is allowing me to not weed so much. I really compacted my soil tight last year by regularly walking through it to do my weeding (but that's another thread). Hey, mulch may even protect you soil a little bit from compacting when you walk on it to prune, harvest, ect. :idea:.

OL, I don't think that there is a real "depth threshold" for what is and in't tilling. Some people use their tillers to till as shallowly as 1 in. to make a light, dust-like covering to plant seeds in.

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gixxerific
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I believe you mean anaerobic G5. Get them leaves turned a bit and add them with your grass. The grass will help the leaves break down and you will have some good soils because of it.

I checked out the area my wood rack was last year, I almost forgot how totally awful this soil is. Or should I say was, the rest of the garden is doing great.

"That time" is right around the corner for me. I simply can't wait. The weatherman said the other day that this coming week will be the first time in 90 something day's we won't be waking up to below freezing temps. :-()

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Ozark Lady
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With acreage for the goats and chickens, I really don't get alot of manure in one place. Sure, their bed time areas, but nothing like what folks with penned up animals would get...
I thought of diapers... (joking)
Can you imagine, walking over about 2-3 acres of pasture with a trowel to scoop up goat berries?

I started on chicken tractors for tilling, and decided it needed it's own thread.



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