Watering From Bottom Up Not Working

[Decado]

So I planted my seeds, have the flat in a drip tray and the holes are not covered, I added a half inch of water and 2 hours later the soil is still dry. Why is this not working?

[applestar]

Did you pre-moisten the seed starting mix before filling your seed flats/containers.

Here's is the consistency you're looking for: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63048

As several folks reported recently, some seed starting mixes, especially soilless ones are difficult to moisten initially. Usually they're sold bone dry and are made of hydrophobic ingredients like peat and compressed vermiculite.

[Decado]

Hmm, I didn't do that, will it hurt to water them from the top now?

[Decado]

Also am I going to have problems watering from the bottom up in the future? How dry should it be before I water? Or do I just always leave water in the tray?

[applestar]

Ouch! I hate to tell you this, but DON'T WATER FROM ABOVE!!!!
The water will not be absorbed, the dry soil mix will float up in the container and the seeds will get washed away.

OK. what kind of seed did you plant? At this point, larger seeds or distinctively colored/shaped ones (like tomatoes, say, or cabbage, usually, even lettuce) can be dug back up if you carefully rake the top of the soil with something like plastic forks (my favorite indoor gardening tool).

I would ordinarily say try soaking with warm~hot water from the bottom, but in the recent threads, people were saying that didn't work. If the top of your soil is not wet, it'll be in fact easier to recover your seeds and start over.

The general consensus seems to be to mix the dry unco-operative seed starting mix 1/2 and 1/2 with potting soil or composted cow manure (I think -- personally, 1/2 and 1/2 with composted manure sounds a little too rich to me...)

[TZ -OH6]

I alway raise the water level as high as possible, often floating the pots initially. Even though most potting mixes have a wetting agent you can't count them to wick like a paper towel.

[Decado]

Well I redid it since it's brussels sprouts. So from here on forth, after the initial wettening do I just leave like a 1/4" of water in the drip tray at all times or what?

[rainbowgardener]

Once you have moistened soil mix, I just put like 1/4" or so of water in the tray each morning, just enough to be sure the pot is well in contact with it and can soak it up. Let it soak all the water up and then leave it alone to dry out just a little until the next AM.

DON'T OVER WATER!

[Decado]

My drip trays have raised rows in it, about 1/8" from the bottom. Would you say I should go 1/4" from the tops of those (which is where the seed flat bottom is)? Or 1/4" from the bottom rows?

[Halfway]

Hmm, I didn't do that, will it hurt to water them from the top now?

I had to dump all the pots out and use a sprayer to moisten the mix while I agitated it with my hands. It was saturated but not dripping when I re-packed into the pots and from that point had no problems bottom watering.

Also as noted in another thread...........use WARM water. works much better.

[Decado]

How do you go about warming your water? In a pot on the stove?

[elementfiftyfour]

The hot water from your faucet should be plenty sufficient.

[cynthia_h]

I'd take a watering can indoors and fill it partway with hot water. Then, when it's still mostly empty (and doesn't weigh as much as it will when full), take it back outdoors and fill it the rest of the way with cold water. Swirl the water around with your hand to mix the hot and cold.

It should feel a little warm to the touch: put your whole hand in it to check.

Don't ask me how many poor little seedlings I 1) drowned, 2) dehydrated, 3) molded to death Spring 2008 by watering from the top *before* I remembered to water them from the bottom, or watering them from the bottom too much, or forgetting to drain off the standing water. The failure of so many seedlings is only one of the factors which drove me to look for forums like this one and then, eventually, to stay with this one.

Believe me: I had never started seeds before--I had sown them all directly into the ground--and it had been 10 years or so since I'd been able to garden at all. I wasn't used to gardening failure on such a LARGE scale. (Nearly 100%.)

Sounds like you're getting off to a decent start ; certainly better than my seed-starting adventure 2 years ago...

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[Decado]

The hot water from your faucet should be plenty sufficient.

I sure am an idiot, duh. What a stupid question.

[a0c8c]

I don't seem to get why watering from the top is bad. I use a spray bottle and wet them through and I get seeds sprouted with ease.

[rainbowgardener]

If it works for you, it works for you. But watering from the top, it is so easy to over water and then misting/sprinkling/whatever, leaves water standing on the baby seedling leaves. Little seedlings are very vulnerable to damping off and other fungal conditions related to too much humidity. Initially when the seeds haven't sprouted or have barely sprouted and aren't very rooted in, it's also easy to wash them loose, watering from the top.

Watering gently from the top isn't so bad before seeds have sprouted. When I plant things that need light to germinate, like petunia seeds, and so are not covered, I do sprinkle them lightly a little, to be sure the seeds sitting on the surface don't dry out. It is the seedlings that are so vulnerable to damping off.

I put so little water in, because I don't want to have standing water to drain off (that seems like a hassle trying to get water back out of a tray full of seedlings). So I only give them what they can soak up pretty quickly.

That's like about 1/4" up from the bottom of the pot, like I said just enough so you are sure the pot is well in contact with it and can soak it up.

No idiocy, we're just all getting a teeny tad obsessive about this while we wait for spring!

[applestar]

TURKEY BASTER! You don't have one in your seed starting station?

Misting from above seems like a nice gentle way to water the little tiny seedlings, and it can be -- barring the damping off problem. But a lot, and I mean A LOT, of folks use the $1 store spray bottle (or recycled cleaning spray bottle hope you washed that well) and go pump, pump, pump, see that the top of the soil has turned dark, and *think* they've WATERED.

So if you're a beginner, I say TRY watering from the bottom. Better yet, try watering from the bottom using a measuring cup so you know how much water you've given them. THATS how much water you need to give. Now try spraying out that much water with the misting bottle -- I can almost guarantee, your hands (yes both of them -- you'll be alternating hands) are going to cramp up before you're done, and you'll probably have to refill the bottle.

I mist the seedlings every morning -- as I said elsewhere, I believe "morning dew" to be the proper breakfast for plants, but I WATER from the bottom. For mass seedling starts under the lights, I use a 1/2 gal pressure sprayer with a long wand.

[garden5]

Does bottom-watering work if you are using dirt? Well, OK, it is dirt that has a little bit of organic material in it, kind of like "backwards compost" .

Do you think it will still draw, or do you think that a potting soil or commercial seed starting material would be better?

[a0c8c]

I only mist until the seeds sprout, then it's all bottom watering. Always worked well for me, if I bottom watered before they sprouted, the seeds all rotted(and I never gave them that much).

[rainbowgardener]

Does bottom-watering work if you are using dirt? Well, OK, it is dirt that has a little bit of organic material in it, kind of like "backwards compost" .

Do you think it will still draw, or do you think that a potting soil or commercial seed starting material would be better?

It will work, the dirt will suck the water up. But potting soil is better. Garden dirt is heavy, tends to compact and not have enough air channels. Potting soil is better at staying a little bit damp but not wet or soggy, the garden dirt tends to be either too wet or too dry.

[garden5]

Does bottom-watering work if you are using dirt? Well, OK, it is dirt that has a little bit of organic material in it, kind of like "backwards compost" .

Do you think it will still draw, or do you think that a potting soil or commercial seed starting material would be better?

It will work, the dirt will suck the water up. But potting soil is better. Garden dirt is heavy, tends to compact and not have enough air channels. Potting soil is better at staying a little bit damp but not wet or soggy, the garden dirt tends to be either too wet or too dry.

That is very true. I have been noticing that when comparing my seed dirt to the soil in the potted plants. There does not seem to be a happy medium with the soil.

[Toil]

I've been told to look into pyrolyzed rice hulls to fix the drainage thing. It's biochar at the same time. I haven't tried this, as I'm still using up my perlite.

I believe the wetting agent in pro-mix and other such mixes is just soap. I've never found wetting to be an issue, but I've heard of wetting with a very very mild soap solution as a remedy. I like to bottom water as well, but I mist the surface a bit as well.

All my starts, when I do them, go into a mix with fresh wormcastings mixed in, with a layer of wormcastings on the bottom, and put on the surface, then covered in wormcastings to the recommended depth. I started doing this after I noticed how well the volunteers from food seeds do in my bins, despite being in total darkness. The heat from rapid decomposition in the bin is a factor, but these are great looking seedlings. As are the one that sprout in my houseplants.

[garden5]

I've been told to look into pyrolyzed rice hulls to fix the drainage thing. It's biochar at the same time. I haven't tried this, as I'm still using up my perlite.

I believe the wetting agent in pro-mix and other such mixes is just soap. I've never found wetting to be an issue, but I've heard of wetting with a very very mild soap solution as a remedy. I like to bottom water as well, but I mist the surface a bit as well.

All my starts, when I do them, go into a mix with fresh wormcastings mixed in, with a layer of wormcastings on the bottom, and put on the surface, then covered in wormcastings to the recommended depth. I started doing this after I noticed how well the volunteers from food seeds do in my bins, despite being in total darkness. The heat from rapid decomposition in the bin is a factor, but these are great looking seedlings. As are the one that sprout in my houseplants.

Worm castings are an excellent addition to the seedling soil. A member here, I belive DV, did an experiment with different seed-soil mixes and found the worm casting mix to out perform all the others. Since seedlings usually live off of their cotyledons (seed leaves), it might be a better idea to add them to the new soil when you pot-up.

[seagullplayer]

In years past I have had a bit of trouble keeping my bottom watering working. But this year I am using home made newspaper pots and they make it idiot proof!

[Decado]

I've been told to look into pyrolyzed rice hulls to fix the drainage thing. It's biochar at the same time. I haven't tried this, as I'm still using up my perlite.

I believe the wetting agent in pro-mix and other such mixes is just soap. I've never found wetting to be an issue, but I've heard of wetting with a very very mild soap solution as a remedy. I like to bottom water as well, but I mist the surface a bit as well.

All my starts, when I do them, go into a mix with fresh wormcastings mixed in, with a layer of wormcastings on the bottom, and put on the surface, then covered in wormcastings to the recommended depth. I started doing this after I noticed how well the volunteers from food seeds do in my bins, despite being in total darkness. The heat from rapid decomposition in the bin is a factor, but these are great looking seedlings. As are the one that sprout in my houseplants.

Worm castings are an excellent addition to the seedling soil. A member here, I belive DV, did an experiment with different seed-soil mixes and found the worm casting mix to out perform all the others. Since seedlings usually live off of their cotyledons (seed leaves), it might be a better idea to add them to the new soil when you pot-up.

Worm castings along with bat guano are a big part of the make-up of this organic potting soil I'm using.

[Ozark Lady]

Okay, here we go..

I can't water from the bottom, at least not exclusively. I tried that last year.

I had this horrible build up of... lime? white gunk that covered the entire surface, and it wicked up taller and taller. I assume it is lime, because the water company determined that the local water, is liquid rock.. joking, but very hard water, lots of dissolved limestone in it.

I know my water is lousy. But, as long as, I water from the top occasionally, I can keep that build up from happening, and the plants grow fine.

Have you ever taken a piece of coal, and set it in a bowl of salt water, and watched the crystals go to the top of the coal? You can use food coloring and make pretty creations...

Well, it isn't pretty when my plants are trying to grow with that going on.

I even have to top water my African Violets, to clear the white gunk out.

If I only bottom water, plants die... I do have to top water to clear it out.

I know a rainbarrel would help me immensely. But, I thought that I would mention the build up that can happen from only bottom watering.
It does not have to be a death sentence to plants.

[seagullplayer]

Okay, here we go..

I can't water from the bottom, at least not exclusively. I tried that last year.

I had this horrible build up of... lime? white gunk that covered the entire surface, and it wicked up taller and taller. I assume it is lime, because the water company determined that the local water, is liquid rock.. joking, but very hard water, lots of dissolved limestone in it.

I know my water is lousy. But, as long as, I water from the top occasionally, I can keep that build up from happening, and the plants grow fine.

Have you ever taken a piece of coal, and set it in a bowl of salt water, and watched the crystals go to the top of the coal? You can use food coloring and make pretty creations...

Well, it isn't pretty when my plants are trying to grow with that going on.

I even have to top water my African Violets, to clear the white gunk out.

If I only bottom water, plants die... I do have to top water to clear it out.

I know a rainbarrel would help me immensely. But, I thought that I would mention the build up that can happen from only bottom watering.
It does not have to be a death sentence to plants.

I hope you are not drinking your tap water! That is the stuff of kidney stones!

[Ozark Lady]

This is city water. So the entire city is drinking it, and most of the rural residents, like us.

The trick is to eat enough acidic foods to keep the lime dissolved.
I can't think of a day that I don't eat oranges, grapefruit, apples, something acidic.

My son just had a well dug, great tasting water, and the limestone makes it liquid rock also... but it is clear and tasty.

Sulphur water is the norm for most rural wells around here, so limestone is much better than sulphur. And the water testers say it is good.

[Decado]

I hope I don't end up having this problem, I get a pink buildup in my shower from the city water.

[Ozark Lady]

Not a big issue for me, just, I do have to top water like every 4-5th watering, or it starts getting gunky.

Yes, all water vessels have white lime deposits on them..

Pink? Sounds like lime, and/or calcium and possibly iron?

It could be good for your plants, just be sure to not panic, if you get a buildup from bottom watering.