Space needed to grow corn - 4x4 being the smallest?

[Zapatay]

Hey Jal -
Can you elaborate on the post above - Is there a good response on using this method?

I remember another poster refering to plantings of corn in a much larger space - which lead me to think corn is not an option for me - but seeing this diagram makes me think I can definitely afford a 4x4 foot space for some corn.

About starting things in the house, some people like to do it, some don't, so they just buy tomatoes and peppers at the nursery. Most garden seeds can be started right in the garden with good success. Some exceptions are the herbs, since their seed is so small. You may have more luck starting those insdoors.

There is no need to start squash, melons nor cucumbers. They grow well from direct seeding in the garden.

Here is a plan for a corn planting. It takes a plot 4 feet square. The seed is on a grid of one foot squares.

If you want more than this leave 3 feet between and do another 16 plants. Do not make a larger planting close together like this.

[img]https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/corn_planting.jpg[/img]

May I suggest Bodacious or Ambrosia?

[jal_ut]

Corn is a large plant. It gets six feet tall and the leaves are 2 feet long.
It is wind pollinated and needs a fair sized planting or the ears do not fill out well because they don't get fully pollinated.

On the other hand, if you plant a large area with corn too close together you get fewer ears or no ears on the plants because they are starved for sunshine. The plants on the outside of the planting will have ears, those in the middle maybe not. A corn plant usually puts on two ears. One on each side like ears.

Traditionally those wanting a large harvest planted a fair size plot or acres in rows with the rows 3 feet apart and the plants 8 to 12 inches apart. Such a planting works very well for corn and most plants will produce two ears.

Home gardeners, on the other hand, have tried many different planting schemes with mixed results. This scheme in the drawing will give you some corn in little space. You could get up to 32 ears from this planting with 16 plants. Remember corn needs good fertile soil.

[Ozark Lady]

I have seen tall corn plants.

But for some reason, when I grow corn it is maybe 4' tall. Is there a secret to tall corn, an advantage, or is it a variety?

How far apart would you space corn for doing the three sisters, beans, squash and corn... where the corn grows, the beans climb up it, and the squash mulches the ground. I haven't tried that, but it seems interesting.

[jal_ut]

Last season I had some space left on one side of my area so I planted two 33 foot long rows of Ambrosia corn. They were spaced 34 inches apart. This planting turned out very well. The ears were filled out good and most plants had two ears. I usually recommend 3 rows as a minimum so they get pollinated fully, but was surprised how well this two row planting turned out. This was a late planting and no other corn was dropping pollen when this one was, so it didn't get pollen from elsewhere. If you can afford enough space to plant 2 or 3 rows spaced 30 inches apart, you couid do well I think.

[jal_ut]

I think the variety is largely responsible for how tall the corn gets. Soil fertility will also have some influence.

I only tried the three sissters once and was frankly disappointed. My idea of a companion planting is to plant 3 rows of corn, then on one side a row of bush beans, and on the other side a planting of squash. I really believe that plants do better when they have their own space.

Try planting some Bodacious. It is a SE type yellow corn and usually gets six feet tall or a little taller. Excellent flavor.

[jal_ut]

If you wonder why I am sitting around here playing on the computer, it is because it is snowing some more. Arrrrggggghhhh!!! I want some warmer weather. Its time to get out and prune the fruit trees.

[rootsy]

Sweet corn needs copious amounts of nitrogen. A lot of phosphorus is a desirable thing at planting in order to get them up and rooted well. Weed free is also very beneficial... Both for the plant as well as you...

The reason for sweet corn being planted at 34 - 36+ inch row spacing is so that people can walk down them to harvest by hand. Where sweet corn is mechanically harvested you'll find it planted on 30" rows.

If you are seeing 48" tall stalks you have a deficiency occurring. The shortest of sweet corn varieties will still achieve 5 feet if properly fed in a good soil structure. It is important to be able to look at a stalk and see what is going on with it with regard to nutrients and disease. If nothing is obvious grab the shovel and dig a trench along side a stalk or two to see what the root structure is. A hard pan and or severe compaction can really hinder growth as the roots become limited by that pan...

[rainbowgardener]

How far apart would you space corn for doing the three sisters, beans, squash and corn... where the corn grows, the beans climb up it, and the squash mulches the ground. I haven't tried that, but it seems interesting.

Try typing three sisters into the Search the Forum feature. There's been pretty much written here about it already....

Just to start you off here's one thread that has some links to detailed instructions:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=67619&highlight=three+sisters#67619

and here's one with some info re spacing

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=113019&highlight=three+sisters#113019

[Gary350]

I grew up on a farm we use to share crop and plant 2000 acres of corn every summer. The typical field had rows 30" apart and seeds were 6" apart. Corn needs LOTS of SUN to make large ears and good corn. But in a garden you can cheat and get away with it on a small crop but you have to work at it.

Corn grows best in a very large field. The only way to grow corn in a small crop is to plant lots of seeds very close together. A lot of plants close together gives you better pollination in a small crop but it creates other problems like not enough water, not enough fertilizer, not enough sunlight in such a tiny spot.

I plant Silver Queen sweet corn in my garden every summer. I hand place the seeds 4" apart in rows that are 12" apart. I plant a crop 7 feet wide 20 feet long. This gives me 7 rows with 60 plants per row. This will give me 420 plants. Corn usually produces 2 ears but I usually only get 1 good ear planting this close together.

Corn is a stripper crop it will drain the soil of every ounce of nitrogen and want more. Put nitrogen on the soil and don't plant until a few days after a good hard rain. Low nitrogen will grow small plants and small ears. Yellow plants are a sure sign of low nitrogen.

I dissolve 1/2 cup of ammonium nitrate in a 5 gallon bucket of water. I usually put 3 or 4 buckets of fertilizer water on my corn once a week until the weather starts to get hot. Do not feed the corn nitrogen in hot weather it will kill the corn. Continue to water all summer.

[Ozark Lady]

I haven't grown corn in many years. The last time I tried, it was a fairly new garden. Most likely I spaced them too closely, I did block plant them, but I doubt that the nitrogen was up in the range that it needed to be.

Well, I decided to try again this year, so I ordered a variety... surely something will like me... ha ha

I have on hand:
Early Golden Bantam
Lancaster Sure Crop
Black Aztec
Silvermine
Country Gentleman
J Reid Yellow Dent
Hopi Blue
Golden Bantam (apparently not early)
Painted Mountain
Red Strawberry
And a special one that is for high protein stock feed:
Ureka Ensilage
With this large amount, and many of these are in decent quantities... I had better learn to grow corn!
I did get ears from my mini corn but the corn ear worms chewed them alot.

[a0c8c]

My family has grown alot of corn in the past, but my aunt is the only one left (grandfather and uncle have both sold their corn fields) still growing corn. She does three rows of corn, and three rows of beans and rotates every two years. Space was always at a premium for her, but at about 30'' spacing she got two nice ears per plant, and Iowa soil grows some of the best corn around.

[rootsy]

A good "rule of thumb" is 150 lbs of nitrogen (nitrogen containing molecule) / acre. Either granular (applied before a good rain) or liquid dribbled between rows or injected. Thus.. if you apply 46-0-0 granular each volume only contains 46% nitrogen by weight... So 100 lbs of 46-0-0 is only 46 lbs active nitrogen... So to get close to 150 lbs of nitrogen you'd have to apply just over 300 lbs of 46-0-0 granular fertilizer / acre.

Plant spacing for sweet corn... I like 8 inches and wider is better than closer. Doubles are a real killer...

If you wish not to plant in evenly spaced rows do some research on hill dropping and check row planting of corn. This is how corn was planted prior to tractors becoming the norm and when horses were used to plant, cultivate, etc.

Dent corn (the stuff you see in most fields) is a different animal... Especially those that are genetically modified for chemical and insect resistance. They can sustain more stress and much more intrusive planting environments, etc.

Corn (all genetic types) need a lot of water from silk through harvest also. At least an inch a week depending upon soil type. When that plant begins to develop and fill an ear it really is raping the soil of moisture and nutrients.

Purdue Universities trial results page... Sweet corn trials are in there from last year... as well as a lot of other trials

https://www.hort.purdue.edu/fruitveg/reports.shtml

OSU Northern Ohio 2009 Sweet Corn trial results

https://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~vegnet/library/res09/northern%20ohio%20sweet%20corn%20evaluation.pdf

[farmerlon]

Corn grows best in a very large field. The only way to grow corn in a small crop is to plant lots of seeds very close together. A lot of plants close together gives you better pollination in a small crop but it creates other problems like not enough water, not enough fertilizer, not enough sunlight in such a tiny spot.

I plant Silver Queen sweet corn in my garden every summer. I hand place the seeds 4" apart in rows that are 12" apart. I plant a crop 7 feet wide 20 feet long. This gives me 7 rows with 60 plants per row. This will give me 420 plants. Corn usually produces 2 ears but I usually only get 1 good ear planting this close together.

I have to respectfully disagree with advising someone to plant Sweet Corn (garden corn) that way. Planting the seeds 4" apart is fine, but after they germinate, I think you're asking for trouble if you don't thin the plants to about 12" apart.
You already pointed out several problems with growing corn that is crowded in: not enough water, not enough fertility, and 1 ear per plant.

I typically plant corn in "4-row blocks"; with each plant about 12" apart in the rows, and each row about 3' apart. I have not had any problems with pollination, and usually have tall & healthy plants with 2 full ears on each plant.

For most gardeners, I believe that if they give the corn some "room to grow" and see the sun, and give the gardener room to walk between the rows ... both the gardener and the corn will be much happier.

[rootsy]

If you are planting rows... Plant North - South... The plants will receive more sunlight than if rows run E-W...

If you are going to plant successively and you have to run your rows E-W start the first block as far to the North as possible and then plant each succession South of the previous succession...

On a commercial scale, sweet corn is planted at roughly 24,000 seeds / acre (Dent corn more than that approaching 30,000). An acre being 43,560 square feet. Figure 90% of the seed (if good seed & treated) will germinate and survive. By doing the math and determining your square footage you can figure out spacing from there.

[Ozark Lady]

Okay, opinion poll: Sort of, not really.

I have raised beds: 4'x8' and I am opening up some new soil... not rich with humus, no mulch or compost, but this could easily be hills.

I do not own a tiller, nor a tractor, so tilling and plowing is not an option.

I could easily go lasagna here, lots of weeds, manure, etc. Or I could dig hills and simply side dress it with manure.

Hubby wants to buy a tiller, I say no... I remember the advice to throw away the tiller... since we don't own one... we don't need to toss it.

I am also considering letting the ducks and geese weed the corn.. good or bad idea?

[rootsy]

Okay, opinion poll: Sort of, not really.

I have raised beds: 4'x8' and I am opening up some new soil... not rich with humus, no mulch or compost, but this could easily be hills.

I do not own a tiller, nor a tractor, so tilling and plowing is not an option.

I could easily go lasagna here, lots of weeds, manure, etc. Or I could dig hills and simply side dress it with manure.

Hubby wants to buy a tiller, I say no... I remember the advice to throw away the tiller... since we don't own one... we don't need to toss it.

I am also considering letting the ducks and geese weed the corn.. good or bad idea?

Let that corn get to about V6 before you let the winged warriors in there... Or they'll eat the corn also...

As I said before... Do some research on hill dropping and check rowing for planting corn. More or less the planter (mechanical or by hand) would drop 3 or 4 seeds on a hill at given intervals.. usually 42 inches X by Y

[applestar]

Ozark Lady, is this a small space corn question (I see a bit of reference to corn at the end) if not, I'll split it off into a new topic, so pick a subject line.

[Ozark Lady]

I was addressing the issue of growing corn in a small space in a raised bed of 4'x8' versus... the great open area... raw land.
Which would get me better results?
It was simply requesting opinions. Corn is a large crop, heavy feeder, with really small returns for all you put into it. So, I am just sort of seeing what others think... Is it worth trying in a raised bed or better out in the open.

[jal_ut]

Corn is a large crop, heavy feeder, with really small returns for all you put into it.

I do not agree. If this were so do you think we would see many thousands of acres of corn growing in this country? Quite the opposite of your observation is true. Corn returns a bountiful harvest for what you put into it.

Corn is the most widely grown crop in the Americas (332 million metric tons annually in the United States alone).

Corn is easy to grow if a few simple rules are followed. It has been said several times in this thread. Plant in rows 30 to 36 inches apart and plants 8 to 12 inches in the rows. Fertilize, weed, water and harvest. In this way you get two nice large ears from each plant.

Once you have the ears harvested, you have loads of oranic matter to go back into your soil.

What is the mystery?

[cynthia_h]

Corn returns a bountiful harvest for what you put into it.

...

Once you have the ears harvested, you have loads of oranic matter to go back into your soil.

Excellent point, jal_ut: once the food is harvested from the corn plant, there is lots of biomass available for whatever use the gardener wishes. Compost, rotting/mulching in place, what have you.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[rootsy]

I generally run my mower over stalks (I am not talking about your lawn mower). Then the remnants as well as root ball get plowed under in the fall or disked in and left over winter to decompose. Only because I grow the same crop on the same ground year after year and need to get rid of the trash and disease.

Most field corn is either chopped for silage, leaving only a root ball or it is run through the combine with more or less accomplishes the same feat as the mower and puts the debris back on the ground. Depending upon soil type and location most corn remnants is either chisel plowed or no-tilled... Very few farmers still plow and disk.

For a gardener those stalks need to be cut up or you'll be left with difficult to handle mass... Even after wintering they will entangle in a roto-tiller or be difficult to break down by hand to incorporate. A small wood chipper makes quick work of them and creates a nice biomass heap for the compost pile...

Nothing like the sweet smell of fermenting silage too...

[applestar]

In my small, no-till garden, I cut the stalks at ground level with loppers (I have two, one for ground level/root work, the other good one for pruning) and lay them on the ground and bury them with compost and mulch (like hugelkultur). With the stumps/roots, I pile compost and mulch on top and plant around them.

[Ozark Lady]

I recall seeing corn fields, when my husband was stationed in Illinois.
I have seen some gardens with corn in them, not many.
Perhaps it is where I live, just not a good growing area for corn.
When I do see corn, 4' is the norm and only one garden do I know, off hand, that grows larger corn.

But, only two fruits for your efforts. What if a tomato, pepper, squash, potato, berry, or okra only gave you two fruits? See my point?
Compared with vegetables that give more it seems unproductive.
But compared with a turnip or radish... ha ha But they take less space, less time, and less soil amendments.

I do intend to give corn another try in 2010.

[rootsy]

My backyard...

[img]https://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/Farming%20Photos/sweetcorn1.jpg[/img]

[Ozark Lady]

Beautiful photo.

Is that now? What is that growing? Is that your crop?

I know... nosey, aren't I?

My back yard... hmm... is forest. Lots of trees, some with old brown leaves, most bare.. no photos of that!

[rootsy]

Last May... that is 340 acres of corn (you only see 100 acres or so in that photo width)...

[applestar]

The trees in the background must be NORTH!
Why do I get the urge to just run, Run, RUN! between those rows of corn? Must be the vista that I can't see out my back yard.

[tomf]

Is that your farm Rootsy? Nice, this is where you use the cool old tractors?

Corn grows tall so put it where it will not block out the sun on your other plants.

[TZ -OH6]

Corn was at the bottom of the priority list this year so I put it in a tight space that is shaded by trees until about noon. I planted it very close together, about 8" between plants and a foot between rows. Three rows about 8-10 ft long. I didn't hope for much but it has done well with big plants and full sized ears. I think the trick was a side dressing of nitrogen before the tassels showed up, which gave the plants some extra height when some rain finally showed up. I am surprized at the success because of the shade from the trees and the dense planting.

[jal_ut]

I love success stories.

[garden5]

I know of a friend who planted corn in his garden, but left them grow 3 to a spot. Know he's wondering why the ears are small . Some crops you just can't crowd.