What lights do you use for your seedlings?

[Joyfirst]

I never did my own seedlings before, but I am really itching to do it this year. I don't have south facing windows. I am not looking for huge amount, because I just have 10 by 20 community garden plot. I would love it to be plug in lights as I don't have much space to devote just to them.
Also, I have a cat, but I could keep seedlings in the bedroom and not let her in there.
Can you write me with specific detaisl since I don't know much about the lights. I am tempted by the option of compact grow lights which you can use in regular table lamp, but are they good enough for the seedlings?

[rainbowgardener]

Yup, compact fluorescents in a clamp on light fixture would be fine for a small amount of seedlings. If you are doing more a couple regular fluorescent tubes in a shop light fixture works great. Just be sure you have it set up so that you can have the light just a few inches above the seeds/ seedlings and have a way to raise it as the seedlings get bigger.
Then leave it on 16 hrs a day!

Good luck, it is awe inspiring to watch seedlings sprout and grow!

[Joyfirst]

Thank you, Rainbowgardener!

[seagullplayer]

Because we are just talking seedling here and plan to transplant them soon enough out doors, would it hurt to just turn the lights on and leave them on?

[rainbowgardener]

I have tried that. I know there are people that do, but in my experience, my seedlings tended to get a little spindly and weak, growing too fast, without a rest period.

[Joyfirst]

Do we need the heating pad or not, if we raise them in a living room?

[gixxerific]

Check out [url=https://www.jasons-indoor-guide-to-organic-and-hydroponics-gardening.com/garden-grow-lights.html]Jason Guide To Indoor Growing[/url]. This is the most in depth site I have seen. the link I gave explains the different lights and their benefits. But check out the rest of the site as well, especially the "life cycle" section which explains what to do and when to do it from starting seedlings to harvesting fruit step by step, and very in depth as well.

Please bookmark this it is a great reference for everything indoors. I could tell you I use Florescent but would like to have Metal Halide but read this site and you will be able to make up your own mind on what fit's your needs best, we all have different desires.

Good luck, but if you have any more ?'s the Helpful Gardener is always here.

Dono

[rainbowgardener]

Do we need the heating pad or not, if we raise them in a living room?

Depends on how cold your living room gets! Seriously. We have a programmable thermostat that turns our heat down to 58 every night. Even if my seedlings were in the living room not the basement, they would still need the heat pad.

All the warm weather crops like tomatoes and peppers like soil that stays around 70 -72 degrees. That's soil temp, not air temp, but for seedlings, there's such a small amount of soil, that it's basically the same thing; not enough soil to hold much heat.

So if you don't keep your living room heated to at least 70 degrees night and day, then yes they would benefit from the heat pad. But note "benefit" that doesn't mean they won't survive without it. And it especially makes the difference for GERMINATING the seeds. Once they are well sprouted, they can handle a little cooler. I only run two heating pads, for germinating seeds. Once the seedlings get transplanted out of the little cells, they are on their own.

The warmth helps germinate the seeds a lot quicker and that can be a survival issue for them -- if they stay in cold damp soil too long without germinating, they will just rot.

[Joyfirst]

Then I guess I'll better get some. We don't even heat our place unless it gets very cold a few times a year. Gixxerific, thank you for the link- I will check it out.

[garden5]

Check out [url=https://www.jasons-indoor-guide-to-organic-and-hydroponics-gardening.com/garden-grow-lights.html]Jason Guide To Indoor Growing[/url]. This is the most in depth site I have seen. the link I gave explains the different lights and their benefits. But check out the rest of the site as well, especially the "life cycle" section which explains what to do and when to do it from starting seedlings to harvesting fruit step by step, and very in depth as well.

Please bookmark this it is a great reference for everything indoors. I could tell you I use Florescent but would like to have Metal Halide but read this site and you will be able to make up your own mind on what fit's your needs best, we all have different desires.

Good luck, but if you have any more ?'s the Helpful Gardener is always here.

Dono

That's a great site, Gix. Thanks for the link.

I Had no idea that there were multiple kinds of grow lights, or even that you can grow plants to flowering and fruiting indoors . Man, I haven't even made my first batch of ACT yet and I'm already dreaming of fresh tomatoes in December .

Happy gardening.

[gixxerific]

You are very welcome joyfirst, G5, I told you it was good. I don't lie

[GardenGeek]

Hey friend!
Your choice of plant lights depends on how many seedlings you're starting & the area you need to light. Choices range from single lamp bulbs on up to 1000 watt high intensity lights. You can set up a simple shop light system or purchase a ready-made, movable set-up easily.

Whatever system you choose, you should put your plant lights on a timer. Indoor lighting is less intense than sunlight & needs to be left on for 14-16 per day.

If you are asking what I use, my answer will be 1000 watts HPS sun system. I got an area of 8 x 9 and it is just perfect for that. This is what I have been using for about the past 2 years.

[resolutejc]

Incandescent Lights
-This type doesn't provide enough useable energy for the plant and they can get expensive with multiple bulbs running many hours a day. Avoid incandescents.
Shop Light Fluorescents
-Outdated and cheap. You will need more than a couple for adequate results. Good for sustaining seedlings, but not much more.
High Output Fluorescents
-The best for the money hands down. Buy multiple units. Make sure you buy one red spectrum bulb. The rest can be blue spectrum. Two 4 ft. units would be best.
High Pressure Sodium Grow Lights
-Great units for fruiting and flowering plants but can be very expensive. They are usually associated with Red Spectrum bulbs and can give off a lot of heat. If you use this light in a small room, expect the temperature to rise. Many professional greenhouses supplement true sunlight with HPS units during the blooming stage.
Metal Halide Grow Lights
-Very similar to HPS units, but these are usually associated with Blue Spectrum bulbs. Many professional greenhouses supplement true sunlight with MH units during the green growth stages.
LED Lighting
-The only LED units that provide adequate grow results are about $2,000. The readily available retail units are completely different than the professional units. These lights can also make your grow area look like a 1970s disco since they emit a purplish hue. Avoid LED unless you have thousands to waste and a very reliable contact that sells them.

[rainbowgardener]

Depends on what you want. The shop lights are super cheap, relatively energy efficient and work just fine for growing seedlings to transplant size. I have nice sturdy little plants any where up to about 10" tall by the time I take them out from under the shop lights, and some (like impatiens and petunia) are usually flowering by then.

Everything else is A LOT more expensive, but would be important if you want to grow plants to maturity and fruiting indoors-- that's a whole different endeavor than starting seedlings. The LED lights are expensive, but even more energy efficient than fluorescent. If I were going to upgrade, that's probably what I would do.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Well said RBG...

S

[Tom the Elder]

Where are the best places to buy 6500K bulbs? The only ones I can find on line require a T5 fixture, not a regular shop light fixture, and cost about $16 for a 4 ft bulb. Thanks

[garden5]

Where are the best places to buy 6500K bulbs? The only ones I can find on line require a T5 fixture, not a regular shop light fixture, and cost about $16 for a 4 ft bulb. Thanks

WalMart, Lowes, and HomeDepo all have them in 2-packs for about $10-$15 for the whole pack.

[resolutejc]

Everything else is A LOT more expensive, but would be important if you want to grow plants to maturity and fruiting indoors-- that's a whole different endeavor than starting seedlings. The LED lights are expensive, but even more energy efficient than fluorescent. If I were going to upgrade, that's probably what I would do.

It's true that everything else is a lot more expensive. Though LED units are the most energy efficient, they are also very expensive to purchase. They also won't save you as much as you think - my electric bill increased by $6/month with my HO Fluorescent fixture. With an LED fixture, I would expect only a $2 increase.

More importantly, the LED units available in Walmart, Target or even a reputable Online Garden Stores are good for nothing. They are far inferior to those used by professional growers and won't be able to sustain plants to maturity. Not to mention your grow room will look like a 1970's Disco with all the purple light emissions.

[resolutejc]

Where are the best places to buy 6500K bulbs? The only ones I can find on line require a T5 fixture, not a regular shop light fixture, and cost about $16 for a 4 ft bulb. Thanks

WalMart, Lowes, and HomeDepo all have them in 2-packs for about $10-$15 for the whole pack.

Do yourself a favor and get good-quality bulbs that last for an entire year and have 100% efficiency. Get familiar with some of the names out there because wholesale budget stores probably carry the cheapo bulbs that burn out quickly.

[Halfway]

Where are the best places to buy 6500K bulbs? The only ones I can find on line require a T5 fixture, not a regular shop light fixture, and cost about $16 for a 4 ft bulb. Thanks

Menards, Lowes, Home Depot, Ace.

Look for the T8 Sylvania 6500k "daylight" bulbs. 2.97 each. Label says life expectancy 9 years, but for the price, I think changing them out each year is worth it.

Also, insure your shoplights accomodate both T12 and T8 bulbs. T8 are more efficient (32 watts vs. 40 watts = same lumens.

[resolutejc]

Menards, Lowes, Home Depot, Ace.

Look for the T8 Sylvania 6500k "daylight" bulbs. 2.97 each. Label says life expectancy 9 years, but for the price, I think changing them out each year is worth it.

Also, insure your shoplights accomodate both T12 and T8 bulbs. T8 are more efficient (32 watts vs. 40 watts = same lumens.

T5/HO bulbs save even more energy and produce almost twice the light output than the original energy saving fluorescent bulbs, which are known as T8 bulbs. You can tell the difference between a T5/HO and a T8 by measuring the diameter of the bulb. A T5/HO bulb will be 5/8-inch in diameter, compared to 1 inch for the T8 bulb. The T5/HO are more energy efficient and operate on an internal electronic ballast usually configured to run several variances of lamps (red spectrum/blue spectrum). Lastly, T5/HO run at 52 watts each, producing 92 lumens per bulb. T8's don't come close to this level of efficiency. T8's and T12's are meant for office lighting, not plant growth. You also want 1 red spectrum bulb to boost flowering; the rest of your bulbs should be blue spectrum.

These bulbs cannot be found at ordinary department stores. You will have to order them online or find a really good local aquarium, hydroponics or gardening store.

[garden5]

Menards, Lowes, Home Depot, Ace.

Look for the T8 Sylvania 6500k "daylight" bulbs. 2.97 each. Label says life expectancy 9 years, but for the price, I think changing them out each year is worth it.

Also, insure your shoplights accomodate both T12 and T8 bulbs. T8 are more efficient (32 watts vs. 40 watts = same lumens.

T5/HO bulbs save even more energy and produce almost twice the light output than the original energy saving fluorescent bulbs, which are known as T8 bulbs. You can tell the difference between a T5/HO and a T8 by measuring the diameter of the bulb. A T5/HO bulb will be 5/8-inch in diameter, compared to 1 inch for the T8 bulb. The T5/HO are more energy efficient and operate on an internal electronic ballast usually configured to run several variances of lamps (red spectrum/blue spectrum). Lastly, T5/HO run at 52 watts each, producing 92 lumens per bulb. T8's don't come close to this level of efficiency. T8's and T12's are meant for office lighting, not plant growth. You also want 1 red spectrum bulb to boost flowering; the rest of your bulbs should be blue spectrum.

These bulbs cannot be found at ordinary department stores. You will have to order them online or find a really good local aquarium, hydroponics or gardening store.

You are quite the light expert, Resolutejc. That is some really interesting information.

One thing that concerns me is the internal ballast. I've heard that these can crate a more heat than an external one. Although, I could be wrong on this particular type of light.

Also, if you are just growing for transplants, you might not need the warm bulbs for flowering since the plants will be fruiting and flowering once they are transplanted outside.

[resolutejc]

You are quite the light expert, Resolutejc. That is some really interesting information.

One thing that concerns me is the internal ballast. I've heard that these can crate a more heat than an external one. Although, I could be wrong on this particular type of light.

Also, if you are just growing for transplants, you might not need the warm bulbs for flowering since the plants will be fruiting and flowering once they are transplanted outside.

@garden5: Thank you. I just read a lot on the subject and experimented with many of these lights to know what's best for each case.

Internal ballasts are only a cause for concern with the powerful HPS or MH units which emit tons of heat. These extreme levels of heat cannot be contained internally for extended periods of time without sacrificing bulb life and the unit itself. However, internal ballasts in fluorescent units are preferred since they do not heat up.

It's true that you may not need the warm, red spectrum bulbs for flowering if transplanting outside, however the OP is planning on starting 50-70 plants from seed. I find it highly unlikely that the weather of Northern Maine, North Dakota, Montana, etc. is suitable for this array of seedlings. They might be sustainable for a month or so, but it would be wiser to keep this project 100% indoors.


@Garden5: I believe your reply as well as mine were intended for this thread:

"Grow Lights, Where To Find Seeds, and When To Start Them" in Vegetable Gardening

[gixxerific]

Where are the best places to buy 6500K bulbs? The only ones I can find on line require a T5 fixture, not a regular shop light fixture, and cost about $16 for a 4 ft bulb. Thanks

Menards, Lowes, Home Depot, Ace.

Look for the T8 Sylvania 6500k "daylight" bulbs. 2.97 each. Label says life expectancy 9 years, but for the price, I think changing them out each year is worth it.

Also, insure your shoplights accomodate both T12 and T8 bulbs. T8 are more efficient (32 watts vs. 40 watts = same lumens.

I didn't see the Sylvania's at Lowes today but that is pretty cheap. I picked up some GE 6500K the 2 pk. 4 ft T12 was $15.10 with tax. I might have to hunt those Sylvania's down.

I don't know about the Sylvanias but the GE's T8 and T12's have different lumens, with the T12's having a bit more 350 to be precise. But it seems the the T8's have a 3 point lead on the CRI which if I remember right is a rating of how close to sunlight they are. But I will tell you this the T12's are quite a bit brighter than the T8's.

My two cents.



:EDIT:I'm down here planting things and it dawned on my the price above for the GE's was for two 2 packs. They are 6.98 for a 2 pack I bought two of them a total of 4 lights that came to $15.10 with tax. Whoops sorry. I was looking at my receipt when I posted earlier and wasn't thinking about about the separate 2 packs on there.

[Tom the Elder]

It looks to me like resolutejk is right. I have tried Home Depot and Ace - no 6500K bulbs. I will try Lowes but suspect I will have to carry everything outdoors in the morning an back in at night. The good news for me is that here in Zone 9 there is a good chance the ground will soon be warm enough that I will be able to plant directly in the beds.

[gixxerific]

It looks to me like resolutejk is right. I have tried Home Depot and Ace - no 6500K bulbs. I will try Lowes but suspect I will have to carry everything outdoors in the morning an back in at night. The good news for me is that here in Zone 9 there is a good chance the ground will soon be warm enough that I will be able to plant directly in the beds.

I'm pretty sure HD has 6500k bulbs and I know Lowe's does. Look at the post above your's.

[Tigerlilylynn]

I finally got to the store Sunday for my lights and both HD and Lowes had 6500K. There are a lot of different nicknames on the lights but at both shops I found T12 4ft 6500K "Daylight" bulbs in 2 packs. I actually found that the fixtures were more difficult to get. Check over the bulbs carefully, the brand might not be labeled as clearly as it should be.

[rainbowgardener]

The newest addition to my set up, I bought 2 more shop light fixtures and 4 more bulbs. Mostly I've been using T12s, but the only fixtures HD had were for T8's, so that's what these are. I will say they are noticeably brighter than the T12's!

[Gary350]

I don't use lights. I plant the seeds and keep the plant trays in plastic garbage bags to hold the moisture until the plants come up. Keep the trays on a heat pad they come up quick. Then when they start coming up remove the plastic bag and move them outside in the sun light during the day then move them back into the house at night. I keep a window fan on low speed blowing on the plant when they are in the house.

I planted herbs last week. I will probably plant my tomato seeds in about 2 or 3 more weeks. All the other seeds get planted directly in the garden soil.

When I plant extremely small seeds like herbs I sprinkle lots of seeds on the surface of the soil then cover them with sand. I water the plants with an ice cube it melts so slow it does not disturb the microscopic size small seeds in the soil.

[rainbowgardener]

If you don't start seeds until it's warm enough out side not to kill them, that works. I started my first seeds in January when we had below zero temps! Besides if you are doing lots of seeds it's a lot of moving in and out. I currently have 13 trays of seedlings under my lights and I don't really have time before work to carry them all outdoors! I do plenty of that anyway just hardening up the plants that are getting ready to go out.

[Gary350]

28 years ago when I lived in the other house I planted about 60 or 70 trays of seeds for the very large garden every year. I had all the plant trays on a flat bed trailer. I kept the trailer in the garage at night to protect the plant for freezing. Every morning before work I rolled the trailer out of the garage so the plants would get some sun light. As long as the temperature was above freezing the plants were fine. It is a hard job to move trays in and out but the trailer made the job easy. My tomato plants use to turn purple they did not like the 34 deg temperature outside at 7 am when I went to work but they still grew fine anyway. The color turned nice and green when the weather got warmer. The plants were all ready to transplant in the garden in about 30 days. It is suprising how much better and faster plants grow in real sun light. When I was using grow lights I had to start seeds a lot sooner and grow lights used a lot of electricity. The money saved on planting my own seeds was lost in the cost of electricity for the grow lights and the cost of the lights.

[Eric Woodmansee]

Because we are just talking seedling here and plan to transplant them soon enough out doors, would it hurt to just turn the lights on and leave them on?

Plants will actually stop reach a "light limit" after ~16 hours the plants will stop the processes initiated by the light. That being said its more or less a waste of money to power the lights after that point.

In my south facing windows with large shelves, I let the normal daylight run its course and simply run the lights to make up for the difference of 16 hours. This lets the plants grow at a more normal rate and will require less hardening off before moving them outdoors. I find it good practice to open the windows on nicer days starting normally about the 3rd week of march (here in Southern NH).

My end goal is to try to simulate as natural of a growing environment, while still keeping longer light.

Hope this helps.