Seed Starting......

[garden5]

Fineas, you don't really need to worry about cooling them down. In fact, if the humidity is too high, the seeds can get "damping-off," which is a collection of fungal diseases that kills seeds at their base. The only time you really need to be worried about the soil temperature is when the seeds are sprouting; warmer soil, especially with peppers, will cause the seeds to germinate earlier. In fact, seedlings will oftentimes benefit from being grown in slightly cooler conditions.

It might not be a bad idea to throw a small, battery-operated fan in there once the seedlings get growing to provide good circulation. Have it on a few hours each day.

What kind of light is that? If it's not a metal halide or high-pressure sodium light, it's too far away. Fluorescent lights are usually kept 2 to 4 inches from the plants. If that is an incandescent light, pitch it and get some 6500k fluorescents. An incandescent lamp will fry the seedling if it is placed that close to them.

I'm sorry to be ripping on your set up so much, these are just my observations. On a positive note, the floral-cart with humidity-regulating jacket is really nice. I guess I really have no room to talk. My seed starting unit is not even set up yet. When it is, it will be just a cardboard box, lined with foil, with a shoplight lowered in (and maybe a cheap, little fan) .

If I'm wrong on any of this, someone please correct me.

Get some good lights, keep 'em close, and you will have an a awsome seed-starting set up.

Happy growing!

Garden 5

[gixxerific]

Yeah I meant no offense either I love your cart. I saw them at Lowe's the other day. You got the cart I have the light.

Here is my mess
[img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/gixxerific/Gardening/DSC03302.jpg[/img]

[Fineas_Ranch]

No offense taken. I'm here to learn and you guys are teaching me lots!

I know the set up isn't perfect, not anywhere close to it, but the light was what we had. We definitely plan on adding more/new lights. We just need to make a trip to Lowes again. It's the beginnings of what will someday be great! A lot of the stuff that was planted were things that had been sitting around the apartment for at least a year, some longer than that. We started them mostly to get them out of the way. If they didn't sprout *shrug* oh well. Of course some of the stuff we had sitting around had started to mold-yuck!

Hopefully this weekend we'll make it to Lowes

I did want to add that I have no idea what kind of light that is. My husband had a great idea last year (before we were married) to grow a blueberry bush in a pot, so he bought the light. It didn't work out too well.

[seagullplayer]

F Ranch, I have a setup much like yours, only mine is the two shelf greenhouse! It sets infront of my living room widows that face west.

I just got my seeds planted last night, I will take pictures next week if things go my way.

For my lights I used a six hole power strip and hung it upside down over the top shelf. Then bought three adapters that let you screw in a light bulb to a plug in outlet.

Like this:

[img]https://cache1.bigcartel.com/product_images/2265817/adapter_1.jpg[/img][img]https://main.goecoreno.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/power_strip.jpg[/img]

Then just used two compact fluoresents from the dollar store.

And one standard 75 Watt bulb between them for heat, last night it kept a constant temp of about 86 inside the green house on the top shelf.

[applestar]

Seagullplayer, what are you using for light reflector? Can you post a photo of your set up?

[Fineas_Ranch]

seagull, thanks for that tip. Hopefully I can talk him into going today since we'll be only a few blocks away, it'll depend on how the roads are though. I like how your set up sounds and I think we could make that work, especially since we currently only use one shelf. Thanks for that tip.

[seagullplayer]

Seagullplayer, what are you using for light reflector? Can you post a photo of your set up?

Because I only planted the seeds last night, I really only need the "heat bulb" for now, I do have all three on. Once they sprout and I take the cover off my plants, I have a sheet of aluminum foil I am putting above the power strip support.

I will try and get a picture up in a few days. I would like to wait so it will have some green in it! At least that is my hope.

By placing a book under my tray I can get the lights within an inch of the plants. I may move the "heat bulb" to the bottom shelf at that point, or try a lower wattage, it might be to hot that close...

[Ridiculous]

ok, for those of you who have been watching this!

I'm gonna start my seeds this weekend , real excited about that!!

but I wanna/need to know something. one easy questions that I'm confused about...

can I have my lights on from the day I plant the seed or do I wait for them to sprout?

I'm concerned about them stretching for light while I'm off at work...

[rainbowgardener]

depends on what you are planting ... some plants need light to germinate, so you need to have the lights on from day 1. Some plants don't need/ want light to germinate, so I just cover them with enough soil to block the light. So yes I leave the lights on from day 1. If you aren't growing things that need light to germinate (it should say on the seed packet), you can wait to turn them on til the plants break the soil. Even if that happens while you are at work, one day in the dark won't hurt them that much.

[applestar]

What rainbowgardener said. I recommend peeking (and breathing CO2 on them) twice a day, in the morning after the lights turn on, and before the lights turn off at night. Sometimes, the soil driies out more than you think. I always mist in the morning, regardless but that's me.

The temp requirement is a little different too. So I have some seeds waiting to sprout/just starting to germinate on a seedling heating mat in lower 60's room (heating mat supplies +10º) but no lights, and some cool weather seedlings that sprouted already (from which I TOOK that heating mat after germination) but which are under lights. I'll be transferring the germinated seedlings under the lights out to the main Grow Light Area in the cold (we're talking upper 20's to 30's) no-window garage tomorrow after I set the area up with extra heat (40's to 50's) and new tubes of light, moving the just barely sprouted seedlings under the light, and setting out another tray of seeds on the heating mat.

I like johnnysseeds.com for looking up optimum germination temps.

Warm weather crops like tomatoes and peppers would need 70's+ to germinate quickly/well and 50's or better to grow well, and peppers would need 60's or better.

[Ridiculous]

thanks guys! I'll just set the timer and have em come on from day one then!

[garden5]

thanks guys! I'll just set the timer and have em come on from day one then!

Congratulations! Exiting, isn't it?

One thing I would suggest is that you get a timer to keep the lights on for 16 hr. cycles.

Fineas, the compact fluorescents would work out fine, but I recall that you said you were not sure on what kind of light to use. Here is a standard setup:

1. 4 ft. fluorescent shop-light Cost: 10$ to 15$ dollars at WalMart.

2. 2 4 ft. 40watt or 32watt (depending on what your light fixture requires) Cost: 10$ at WallMart Make sure the lights are rated around 6500K.

There are as many different grow light set ups as there are different gardening methods in general. This is this a basic set up. You can modify it as you like to suit your needs.

Happy growing.

[Fineas_Ranch]

I ended up purchasing a bulb instead of the tube lights, because I have no idea what to do with the tubes. I also got a clamp to put the bulb in. The bulb is 6500K. I'll try to get a picture of it Sunday or Monday. I think the lights are a little far away still, so I'm going to have to do some tweaking to get it right.

[seagullplayer]

Pictures from this morning:

[img]https://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/tomato2.jpg[/img]

[img]https://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/tomato1.jpg[/img]

The light setup I was talking about:

[img]https://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/CFsetup.jpg[/img]

Overall look as it sets in my living room floor. I put a blanket over it during the night to help with temp. Been staying about 78 F. The bottom bulb is a 75 Watt regular bulb just used for heat. I can add another "grow light" to the power strip if it needs it.

[img]https://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/insideGH1.jpg[/img]

Hope to get the plants into puts later this week. Just took the plastic dome off the plants yesterday. Also plan to add a small fan this week.

Sorry it took so long to get pictures up, but I wanted to make sure the setup was going to work and that my seeds where good.

Still have the 72 cell tray for my later main starts next month.

[donworden]

As for me, I am starting my goodies down in my basement...

I have planted Delicious toms, and am planting beefsteaks, early girls, bonnie bell green peppers, a pepper mix, etc. I did the Delicious Toms as an experiment.. no bottom heat, jiffy peat plugs... I do have the domes for the plugs but opted not to use them... The toms were planted exactly seven days ago, and are just now breaking the top of the peat. For heat, I have been using a KEROheat Kerosene heater, and manage to keep the temps in this cold basement roughly between 70 and 80 degrees. I am spritzing water on the peat plugs 2 x daily, to keep them from totally drying out. So far things seem to be successful.

[Ozark Lady]

A word of caution on the peat plugs.
I used them last year. And I also only spritzed them, I kept the surface soil damp... and at first true leaves or soon after... I would spritz and the next spritz...find them dead...beyond recovery.

I finally realized, I needed to actually soak the peat plugs at least occasionally... the surface spritz made me feel good, but the plants were simply not getting enough moisture at the roots.

So, be careful... check below the surface... You may be good to go... I wasn't and I killed alot of seedlings learning this.

[gixxerific]

Bottom water only on those as far as I'm concerned. As Applestar and Rainbowgardener say over and over put 1/4 - 1/2 inch of water in bottom and let it soak. I put that much or more in when they are FULLY wet I take out the tray and dump off the extra water. Than put a fan on them for a bit to ward of damping off fungus.

But if what you are doing is working for you than by all means keep doing it.

my 2 penny's

[Ridiculous]

well, I've been totally slacking on updating this thread. it doesn't seem that I have much time to be on the net lately anyways.

but today I took some pics for ya'll and just thought I'd show em off!

I've got a lot of seedlings...some are doing great and some not so much. keep in mind this is my first year starting seeds and planting this large of a garden...

any comments welcome!
[img]https://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/Ridiculous02/IMG00295.jpg[/img]


[img]https://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/Ridiculous02/IMG00291.jpg[/img]


[img]https://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/Ridiculous02/IMG00292.jpg[/img]


[img]https://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/Ridiculous02/IMG00293.jpg[/img]


[img]https://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/Ridiculous02/IMG00294.jpg[/img]


[img]https://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/Ridiculous02/IMG00296.jpg[/img]

[gixxerific]

Looking good there Ridiculous.

Only comment I have would be to take the cover off that light. The lenses is stopping a lot of available light. Other than that not a bad setup you got. Good luck "THAT" time is right around the corner for a lot of us to be planting outdoors. I myself can't wait.

[Ridiculous]

thanks gixxer!

it's funny cause when I got those lights I was debating whether or not to remove that cover. I guess I'll do it now...I was just bein lazy about it I guess.



and yes, I can't wait for spring either!!!

[Ozark Lady]

I am running out of room, and out of time...
Gee whiz, May is only 7 weeks away.
I filled up 3 flats of tobacco today... And will fill more tomorrow.
I didn't even scratch the surface of the varieties that I have on hand.
And haven't even started the "preferred ones".
Oh time, where did it go?
I see our 10 day is calling for 60's and up for the next 10 days...
Always, no spring... straight dive from freezing to oops should be planted already!!!
Tomorrow, the onion sets, and early direct sow crops will be going into the garden! The tulips and daffodils are popping out everywhere, up about 6 inches now. Not fully up, but getting there.
The fruit trees are still dormant, I really need to prune that peach tree.

But, I need to make growing room for these guys, so I can keep rotating from germinating, to infant nursery, to toddler day care! ha ha

And the crunch is on! Here we go folks, ready or not!

[seagullplayer]

Those plants are looking great!

How long have the ones in the cups been planted? Is that the first transplant for them?

[Ridiculous]

Those plants are looking great!

How long have the ones in the cups been planted? Is that the first transplant for them?

the ones in the cups were planted real early. I wanna say in feburary. and now that I think of it, those never got transplanted, I was just testing some seeds left over from last year to see if they'd germ.

maybe I'll do that tomorrow!


one of those tomatos in the cups is having a problem though and I just can't figure it out! I almost wanna say it's got root rot or something but not sure...maybe I'll get some pics up of it or somethin

[toxicburn1]

hi guys! you have some nice gear with lights and stuff. I think I know my problem withought posting it here. but lets start from beggining:
this is my first year planting. I got some tomatoes, cucambers, peppers and mellon.
Cucs don't seem to have problem...yet Mellons look good too, as far as I can judge. Peppers took a wile to get sprouted (must be just luck of knowledge) And lastly - tomatoes, darn em
I have used little compost sells for planting, and "Suppersoil" potting soil (it looks like wood chips though) with enreached plant food and blah, blah, blah. Tomatoes are few kinds - Beefstake, big boy and some others. I have planted 'em around Feb 10. 4-5 seeds per cell. once they brocke through, I cut some down leaving 2 max / cell.
please, tell me thaty they look ok, cause I think that they are about to die. I keep soil wet, even fed them today with weak mix of some plant food.
I also don't have any lights around it, I keep em in my garden window (I live in California, SF area)
Please tell me what if they look okay and if I need to put some lights over it.
[img]https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/xdEc6QN1eiX8AEE6MKT2xQ?feat=directlink[/img] [/img]
[img]https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lZn3Scqy9rn0Gq-E_CkkuA?feat=directlink[/img]
[img]https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/101vjtsP12IvncCcbbCeCA?feat=directlink[/img]

[toxicburn1]

great images are not coming up

[rainbowgardener]

toxicburn -- I can see your pictures. You are right they are looking a little bit spindly and pale. Definitely need more light! Sorry but you just cannot grow tomato seedlings in front of a window, without supplemental light.

DON"T feed them any more.... it will just make them more spindly. What you have are just sprouts with seed leaves. The baby sprouts like that have the food they need from the seed. Usually we don't fertilize at least until it has the first true leaves, and then gently, half strength. You want it to be building roots at this stage not stems and leaves.

And be careful about watering... you want the soil damp NOT wet. If you can press it and water oozes out, you are overwatering and will start losing seedlings to damping off.

[live2garden]

Wow, everyone has such nice set ups for starting their plants.

My husband built me a large "garden" window a few years ago for starting my plants.

I also used to use those peat pellets, but I lost a lot of plants due to them drying out so fast. Now, I start my plants in a flat that contains a mix of play sand and peat moss. I have much better luck with them that way.

Once they get their second set of leaves I transplant them into pots with regular potting soil. They seem to grow great that way. Here is a picture of my set up this year.

[img]https://live-2-garden.com/tomatoes_2010.JPG[/img]

[toxicburn1]

toxicburn -- I can see your pictures.

Thanks a LOT! Already put em under light!!! Will let you guys know the progress

You are awesome !

[garden5]

Also, I don't think that you would want to keep them growing 2 to a "point" in the soil...that might cause some root damage when the time comes to separate them.

Welcome to the Helpful Gardener!

[wjcmpbll]

I made some changes to my setup as recommended by rainbowgardener. First I bough a shoplight and installed it above my china cabinet, which actually sits between the 2 windows I was using for light. I consolidated my plants (both new seedlings and those recovering from feline assault), removed them from the windows and placed them under light. Some of the peat pellets were stuck in place and I had to use a little bit of force to move them so I hope I didn't hurt them. Hopefully they will respond favorably to the new lighting. It's the bottom 5 photos after clicking link.

[url]https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=7790&id=100000645081027&l=17d17f216d[/url]

Do yall think I should just keep them under the light all the time or just use the light to supplement the natural light - which would mean moving them to and from the window every day? I believe I read that they need about 16 hrs/day or so. I'll double-check that. Thanks for the help!

[gixxerific]

Only thing I would say is to lower that light a few inches. Your plants may get "leggy" where it is at. Normally with florescent lights the height is about 4 inches or so. But if you have an external light source (the window) maybe it won't be as important.

[wjcmpbll]

The lightbulbs are about 3 or 4 inches from the tops of the plants. I think it looks farther in the photos.

[toxicburn1]

Darn IT !!! We had a nice warm and sunny day today - why not to bring my "garden" out? WRONG! I guess direct sunlight is not so god for lil' plants either... Tomatoes' and peppers' leafs turned from light green to almost dirty white and few of my cucumbers that use to stay strong and high (about 5'') fell down.
But on the other hand I already can see some of the first true leafs coming out (about 1-2 mm) on tomatoes and about 2-3 mm on cucs. IN ONE DAY !!! WOW sorry, my excitement

Fallowing your suggestions, I have build a little incubator... out of stroller's box, 4'' double light bulbed shop light (40W; T12 type) + 40W UV party light. Put food foil on the inside to increase reflection of the light and to redirect the UV light that I decided not to put directly over plants.
so... keeping my fingers crossed
Also, you have inspired me on not to throwing any extra sprouts when thinning... so, I got one whole new tray of Jalapenos

[wjcmpbll]

Just got home from work and first thing I did was check the plants. After 12 hours under the fluorescents all the new seedlings are straight as a board just reaching for that light! I love it. The cat-affected ones not so much, but that's ok. Still debating whether or not to move them back and forth from window to light... I guess it doesn't really serve a purpose to do so? After all, they should be fine under the light until it's time to transplant them... I guess?

Sorry if I'm over-posting. I'm just excited it's working!

[rainbowgardener]

Yup, skip the window. Just leave them under the lights! 16 hrs a day!

[toxicburn1]

took some pix of my "incubator's guts". About 5 hours total time inside, and plants already turning to the light
[img]https://lh6.ggpht.com/_8deVzOVFZMk/S5PcOa_1XoI/AAAAAAAAE3Q/E9JP0CsWiOk/s400/IMG_1703.JPG[/img]
[img]https://lh4.ggpht.com/_8deVzOVFZMk/S5PcOon2ZRI/AAAAAAAAE3U/7qvR0ZqhI9M/s400/IMG_1704.JPG[/img]
[img]https://lh5.ggpht.com/_8deVzOVFZMk/S5PcO4k622I/AAAAAAAAE3Y/TI1Tc1xqUpo/s400/IMG_1705.JPG[/img]

[toxicburn1]

I'm getting a little disappointed with my gardening skills
1. Yesterday, I took a tray (3X6 cells) of tomatoes out on the sun and watered the soil... at the end of the day they all had a sign "KILL US!" Baby leafs (not the true leafs) turned dirty white, and they all sag. Hmm... looks like direct sun is bad. Point taken
2. I also had thinned ALL of my plants. I was surprised to discover that when you snip the top of the sprout, root still lives and lives pretty darn good! Most of the plants that I snipped the tops off (stupid) had healthier and thicker roots than those that had tops on. Now I know: Never snip the top - plant it somewhere
3. My cucumbers... I thought I had luck there... Some of my cucs started falling. I know that Cucs are vine and they grow long. I have em about 5-6" inches tall and almost all started developing first true leafs. but no good without bad in my beginners luck: some started getting soft right in the middle of the vine and fall. HELP!!! I have put them on a supports already, will take a picture tonight.
...So, first thing in the morning I turned on the light in my incubator , but decided to hold on UV light... don't know why, I have a feeling that too much of UV will kill em.
P.S. Please, let me know if I'm boring you to death with my newbie's ups and downs, I can handle the truth

[rainbowgardener]

Don't get discouraged! Like everything else worth doing, it takes practice and learning and it sounds like you are doing a good job of learning the lessons.

Re the little tomatoes, you are right, the white leaves means it got burned up in the sun. Direct sun is great for tomatoes -- AFTER they get used to it. Coming from indoors to direct outdoor sun is too much. The transition from indoors to outdoors is hard and it's where I lose the most seedlings. They need to get hardened off (adapted to the sun, wind etc outdoors) gradually.

I put things out on my deck, which gets only morning sun. To start with I don't put them out until late morning, so they are only going to be in the sun a few hours. If possible don't leave things outdoors all day the first few day, or if you have to, find a very protected spot.

Right, again-- I plant thickly and then I transplant everything, I don't throw perfectly good little plants out, unless I just have way too many of them. But I also find that the process of separating them out for transplant lets you inspect the roots and pick the plants to save based on what has the best root system -- a much better gauge of how well it is going to do.

Apparently you didn't believe me when I told you before that UV is harmful to plants ( https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=115685&highlight=light#115685 ). Go back and look at the link I posted.

I'm not sure what happened with the cukes, the picture might help. They are vines, they don't grow upright. But you said they were 5-6" tall and started developing first true leaves. In that order? That sounds like maybe leggy and not getting enough light (in wavelengths they can use). They should get the true leaves a lot sooner than 5-6". The soft in the middle might be over watering or holding too much water (I'm guessing now). If the soft spot is close to the soil line it might be damping off, a fungal condition.

Those are peat pots in the picture? Is everything in them? Peat pots are notorious seedling killers. When the soil is wet, they hold the water in and keep everything too wet. If the peat finally starts to dry out, then it wicks all the water away from the soil and makes it too dry. And despite what they say, they are NOT biodegradable (in any reasonable amount of time). Never plant anything in the ground still in the peat pot. In the future, plastic works much better and can be reused, year after year.

[Halfway]

That is good advice on the peat pots. This will be my last year using them and I only have about a half dozen still in use. Between the mold and the problems with them drying out, they are more trouble than worth.

[RyanDe680]

Peat pots are notorious seedling killers. When the soil is wet, they hold the water in and keep everything too wet. If the peat finally starts to dry out, then it wicks all the water away from the soil and makes it too dry. And despite what they say, they are NOT biodegradable (in any reasonable amount of time). Never plant anything in the ground still in the peat pot. In the future, plastic works much better and can be reused, year after year.

+1 for this advice.

Plastic/foam cups are great and can be reused. You can then control the amount of draining, which in this stage, is a big factor.