Cabbage and Broccoli - starting indoors?

[Duh_Vinci]

Ok, last year I planted all of my cabbage, broccoli and cauliflower as 3"-4" seedlings from the local nursery.

This year - I'm determined to grow them from seeds, starting indoors. To time it correctly, and considering that our last frost date would be around April 15th, when would be a good time for me to start these guys indoors?

I guess I'm looking for rough estimate on time from seeding to seedlings at 4"-5" tall with true leafs? I have the following to grow out:

Bok Choy (40-50 days)
Broccoli Raab (40 days)
Cabbage "Copenhagen Market Early" (66 days)
Cabbage "Charmant" (66 days)
Cabbage "Red Acre" (75 days)
Cauliflower "Sicilian Violet" (68 days)
Cauliflower "Farmers Extra Early" (40 days)
Cauliflower "Early Snowball" (55 days)

And would appreciate any suggestions for an early varieties of Broccoli you could offer!

Regards,
D

[gixxerific]

[url=https://www.tinkersgardens.com/vegetables/broccoli.asp]Here[/url] is a great reference for what you are looking for.

I printed out a calender that I put seed starting dates and transplanting dates so everything is more organized for me. I use several references but mainly my local Ext agency at Mo University. Looking at my calender I have Cauliflower seeding on 3/01 and Broccoli on 3/06 My planned transplanting date is 4/10 but looking at this it might be better on 4/17. The earliness I believe is because they can be planted a few weeks before the last frost.

My last frost that I using as a guide is around 5/01 though the 50% last frost is mid April.

Looking at one of my garden books it says broccoli by seed 6 weeks before last frost and by transplant 4-6 week before, and cauliflower by seed 4 weeks before.

Don't take this as the gospel I'm at new at seed starting so take with a grain of salt.

[Duh_Vinci]

Dono - that is MONEY!!!

Soil prep, seed starting, dates - perfect! Now - have to follow what you've done, time to continue being organized this year! Got to put one of those free calendars from Chinese buffet to a good use

Regards,
D

[Toil]

Same family, different species - rapini. Aka broccoli raab. Brassica rapa. Chinese variation is called gai lan.

It's a turnip, but there are 30 day varieties. Also, regular turnips, but for greens.

Blanch, drain, chop, and sauté with garlic. Salt it after you cook it, and don't heat the oil before adding the garlic. You can top with vinegar or olive oil.

For turnip greens, after you blanch and put on ice, make snowballs and squeeze out water. Chop it up small. Mixed with bacon and Parmesan, and tossed with well oiled pasta like farfalle or rotini, you will be in spring heaven. Anche chiamato il paradiso primaverale. Mangiare bene è vivere.

[Duh_Vinci]

Toil- you making me hungry!!! Italian? Lived in Italy for few years, near Roma (Ladispoli) Simple and delicious foods, and morning espresso at local tabaccheria... Good times!

Question about the fertilizers. I know Brassica Family species are considered to be heavy feeders. And most sources (including the one from Dono's link) called for non-organic fertilizers with values as 20-20-20 or some even higher for "P". While not going to be able to match those number with organics, high "P" number would be something coming from a bone meal? Any other suggestions on what works well for those heavy feeders (organically)?

My crop did ok, but was a little on the slow side...

Regards,
D

[gixxerific]

I swear by blood bone meal.

Remember the only reason those chemical ferts are so high is because they leach out and are NOT long lasting. I can't explain it super well HG were are you?

[Tater]

In my unheated greenhouse I am averaging 30 days from seeding to transplantable (cell plugs to 4" pot) with more stable conditions you should be quicker.
Raab loves growing in the g'house. It is the most vigorous then-reg broc. then pac choi,then cauliflower
I have a thousand variables though

[Toil]

I never really understood the "rank feeders" thing. I used to be lazy, now I'm lazy and organic. They just never gave me trouble. Not like garlic (impossible!) or potatoes or Brussels sprouts (same species).

Straight up high quality compost. Spray some EM now as the thaw comes and last years growth breaks down. Throw compost on top of that, water, and lay the seeds in situ.

I never thought of these as being nute hungry, just sun hungry. In spring they don't produce in the shade. Spacing is important too. We ruined last years crop of broccoli because nobody had the heart to cull. They all looked so precious. We were rewarded with plants that bolted in less than a season.

I like to clip the top shoot. I find the side shoots much nicer, and you can harvest just what you need for your bacon, onion, and raw broccoli salad. And no chopping!

[gixxerific]

You had me at Bacon.

[rainbowgardener]

Re the original question about timing. I have cabbage and broccoli in my basement that is sprouted now (just tiny, but there). My av. last frost date is the same (4/15). But the cabbage and broccoli are cold tolerant, I usually put them out sometime in March and cover them for frosts. They don't like hot weather, so they need a good head start.

[Duh_Vinci]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and suggestions, appreciate it very much!

Rainbow - you do like to start your season early! Sprouted already

Looks like some work cut out for me for the next week! If I keep going at this rate, I will have to get me another 24x48 T8 light fixture for the basement! Oh well, beats paying to someone else for the seedlings, and would know, that these are mine and what's in them!

Regards,
D

[!potatoes!]

along with rainbow, I'm not sure how much you really need to start them indoors. all those brassicas are fairly frost-tolerant, even as little seedlings. I've had kale, turnip, and broccoli seedlings (at just-cotyledon stage) survive happily to 29 or so, uncovered.

[jal_ut]

Hmmmm, why start them indoors and go to all that work, when they do just fine direct seeded in the garden? You can plant early. Cabbage and broccoli have good frost resistance. My date is early April. Depends on the weather and soil conditions.

I put 3 or 4 seeds in a bunch with bunches spaced a foot or 16 inches apart. When the seedlings get about two inches tall I thin the bunch to one. I sometimes transplant the ones I take out to another row.

[applestar]

Ah, but I think the problem we have around here is that there is usually no SPRING to speak of... hence the early start indoors.

Something else that I ran into, when trying to figure out the proper time to set them out (I started my cabbage/cauliflower/broccoli seeds March 1 last year) was the reference to "buttoning" -- small head/no head due to temp that is too low for budding.... Any thoughts/advice on that? I DID use floating covers last year for good part of April --- then we had a sudden 90º heat wave for about 4 days at the end of April, then temps plummeted and I believe we had an ultra late frost in May.

[Toil]

I'm telling you, forget the main head. That's for resale. Clip it off early and discover the joys of side shoots, bacon, and onions. You can use vegan bacon.

[applestar]

The kind I grew last year is an heirloom variety called DiCiccio -- often available as organic seeds, not a commercial heading variety at all. I let a couple of them go to seed -- I want to see if they'll re-seed on their own.... Oddly enough, there seem to be very, very few heirloom or even open pollinated cauliflower varieties.

[Toil]

Are you sure it's not meant to be overwintered?

Heirloom brassicas do seem rare. I have these purple sprouts I'm hoping to get seeds from. But it's a slow version of an already slow plant. Sown in march you have a chance.

I think even the one you got, pruning or crushing the main shoot might help. Maybe just try it one one or two?

[Gerrie]

I'm starting my broccoli next month in the garage. I have trouble knowing what dates to follow. My extension service book says seeds can be planted mid Jan- therough March. (for transplanting). Two computer sites recommend sowing seeds mid Mar. and put out two weeks before last frost (May 15th). What is everyones take on this? I've put in Parsley seed and cabbage seed now (in the garage) but I'm not sure what to do about the broccoli and cauliflower. I've never done them before, though I tried planting broc. directly into the ground last yr. and somehow got one plant, but it never created heads.

[Toil]

Here's what I would do to get local anting advice: ask!

Gardening clubs, farmers growing spec crops, your wise neighbor who always has the best veggies, or even go to a supermarket, pit your question on a sign, and ask the reader to call with the advice.


You can't do it alone! Well you can, but you won't have as much fun. This community is great, but it isn't local for anyone. So connect to your local community too.


Hope that helps.

[rainbowgardener]

I was surprised your last frost date is Mid May. If you are on the coast you are likely zone 8. If on the eastern side of the mountains, zone 5 or 6. I'm in zone 6 and my last frost date is mid April. But I looked:

https://www.victoryseeds.com/frost/or.html

I guess it's combination ocean and mountains... Klamath Falls has only 2 frost free months!

Anyway if you can plant cabbage seeds, you can plant broccoli and cauliflower. They are all brassica family and have similar requirements (you will be surprised how much the cabbage and broccoli seedlings look alike in early stages, since we think of the finished product as being quite different). The brassicas are all pretty cold hardy and can be planted out while there still will be frosts, just cover them.

[pepper4]

I too started growing cabbage and cauliflower indoors from seed. No sprouts yet. Just did it yesterday. Have some seed left so may try like jul_ut said and plant some in the ground also and see which way has more success rate. With any luck both

[gixxerific]

I too started growing cabbage and cauliflower indoors from seed. No sprouts yet. Just did it yesterday. Have some seed left so may try like jul_ut said and plant some in the ground also and see which way has more success rate. With any luck both

That is pretty much how I do it. I will put in plants and than seed at the same time whichever does better, well doesn't get culled. But I'm crazy and a bit unorthodox in my gardening (read: not an expert). And like you said they may both do good, not to mention it is succession planting which is a good idea.

[Gerrie]

I'm in the Applegate Valley, just west of Medford about 25 miles. We get a hot summer but it seems to start late on go into fall more like the SF bay area. It's USDA zone 8 because we don't get severe cold, but it is a short growing season, 138 days. It's confusing to go to some online sites and see one seeding date and then look in the extension service book and see another. Medford, where the extension service is has quite a longer growing season and Grant's Pass to the north of us also has a longer season, while Ashland to the south has only a few days longer than us.

I have a neighbor who gets tomatoes at least two weeks before I do (same variety, same direction, different slope elevation). go figure. The climate is especially suited to wine grapes since we are at about the same latitude as the Tuscany region and have some of the same features.

[Duh_Vinci]

jal_ut - I have to echo what Apple said, In VA - we too don't really have a solid spring, specially in the past years... It goes from the frost, to 90F in no time, maybe a month and a half where the weather stays in the 70's and 80's and the night temperatures in the 40's and 50's

So with that in mind, I figured is I have mature seedlings, I can buy myself some time, and have the Brassica crops just in time before the weather turns hot...

Thank you all for suggestions! Much appreciated!

Regards,
D

[wolfie]

D-V, how many weeks did you let your broccoli grow inside before transplanting?