I searched and couldn't find a thread devoted to this stuff. I realize that it is not really necessary, is amateurish, and can decrease flavor.. but what really is wrong with it? It certainly make everything grow HUGE and fast.
Follow up question: what's the better alternative for veggies?
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webmaster
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We have had [url=https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLJ_en___US353&q=miracle+gro+site:www.helpfulgardener.com]many discussions[/url] about Miracle-gro. Not sure how you searched but if you click on the [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/search.php]Search The Forum[/url] link you can type in Miracle-gro or Miracle Grow and find many discussions about it.
As far as alternatives, there are plenty. It basically starts with feeding the soil. There are some good discussions in the [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=35]Compost Forum[/url] about that.
As far as alternatives, there are plenty. It basically starts with feeding the soil. There are some good discussions in the [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=35]Compost Forum[/url] about that.
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rainbowgardener
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What's really wrong with it, depends on what you are doing with it. If you are growing in containers, not as much, because that is an artificial environment anyway, where you can't really use regular soil and the fertilizer is pretty contained, not so likely to escape into the environment.
HOWEVER, if you are talking about growing in the ground, it's a whole different story. In the ground, synthetic fertilizers are harmful to micro-organisms that help maintain soil and plant fertility, they break down soil structure ("tilth") that helps the soil hold air and moisture, they imbalance the available nutrients (by providing a sudden rapid infusion of NPK with nothing else, none of the trace elements plants need), and they runoff into the water system, becoming a major source of pollution (read about eutrophication, how lakes and rivers are killed by excess fertilizer).
That's to start with, but as noted there's more, do the searches noted.
HOWEVER, if you are talking about growing in the ground, it's a whole different story. In the ground, synthetic fertilizers are harmful to micro-organisms that help maintain soil and plant fertility, they break down soil structure ("tilth") that helps the soil hold air and moisture, they imbalance the available nutrients (by providing a sudden rapid infusion of NPK with nothing else, none of the trace elements plants need), and they runoff into the water system, becoming a major source of pollution (read about eutrophication, how lakes and rivers are killed by excess fertilizer).
That's to start with, but as noted there's more, do the searches noted.
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pharmerphil
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kinda sorta answered your own question...MacLeod wrote:I searched and couldn't find a thread devoted to this stuff. I realize that it is not really necessary, is amateurish, and can decrease flavor.. but what really is wrong with it? It certainly make everything grow HUGE and fast.
Follow up question: what's the better alternative for veggies?
Huge is good, but getting there FAST is the problem with the "lack" of taste and quality...grow slow like mother nature intended, grow ORGANIC
Synthetic fertilizers are not necessarily harmful to the soil community. For instance I add synthetic fertilizer to help my wood chip piles compost. This stimulates the microbial community and I end up with mushrooms all over the place. I also use synthetic fertilizer in the garden soil and because of the compost and mulch I add to the soil, the soil is full of fungal hyphae, and mushrooms pop up all the time. I started with more or less sterile clay/sandstone soil, and after two years of compost, synthetic fertilizer and repeated tilling to break up clods I now have the best living soil in the area. If I had gone notill- with only organic fertilizer I would still be looking at a clay hardpan, a pile of uncomposted woodchips, and an empty freezer.
The reason some people believe that synthetic fertilizers are evil across the board is because when used for decades on cropland to boost productivity in the absence of the input of additional organic matter (other than tilled in crop residue) the soil structure breaks down (tilth is reduced). The microbes feed off of the fertilizer and break down the soil organic matter faster than it can be replaced by the crop residues.
If you are adding compost (and mulching) in addition to using synthetic fertilizers (properly) there is no reason for the quality of your garden soil to decline. But if you simply dig up a peice of ground and dump synthetic fertilizer on it year after year the microbes will eventually run out of organic food and the soil structure be harmed. I suspect that if you use organic fertilizer from a bag, box or bottle, without adding bulk organic matter to the soil the same thing will happen.
If you dump concentrated fertilizer on microbes will it kill them? Yes, but microbes have a doubling time on the order of a few hours so when the fertilizer is diluted enough by soil water the microbial growth rate will increase and quickly replace that portion of the population that was killed on contact (as long as there is also organic matter in the soil to feed the microbes). Stunting the microbial growth might actually benfit the plants because it give their roots a chance to take up the nutrients while the microbes are inactivated. Otherwise it is a free for all for the nutrients. Microbial populations die off twice a year anyway, mid summer when the soil dries out, and winter. They produce and leave behind exudates that bind the soil particles so it is important that their populations build up and stay high for part of the year, but killing off a portion of the population for a couple of days by dumping blue juice on them is not the end of the world.
As for taste and quality...recent studies have shown that the nutritional difference between organic and traditional commercial produce is insignificant. Handling and storage of commercial produce has a great deal to do with flavor, and growth characteristics/flavor (big plants low flavor) have to do with the NPK ratios of the fertilizer. Miracle Grow has many different formulations. You will not get huge sprawling plants using a bloom booster formula, but if you over do it with organic bloodmeal (high nitrogen) you might. If there is enough organic matter in the soil much of the synthetic fertilizer will be quickly taken up by microbes and then re released as "organic" fertilizer over time. Using synthetic fertilizer in the garden is not like using it for hydroponics.
I am not against organic gardening. The situation is not black or white. It consists of shades of gray both for organic and inorganic gardening.
The reason some people believe that synthetic fertilizers are evil across the board is because when used for decades on cropland to boost productivity in the absence of the input of additional organic matter (other than tilled in crop residue) the soil structure breaks down (tilth is reduced). The microbes feed off of the fertilizer and break down the soil organic matter faster than it can be replaced by the crop residues.
If you are adding compost (and mulching) in addition to using synthetic fertilizers (properly) there is no reason for the quality of your garden soil to decline. But if you simply dig up a peice of ground and dump synthetic fertilizer on it year after year the microbes will eventually run out of organic food and the soil structure be harmed. I suspect that if you use organic fertilizer from a bag, box or bottle, without adding bulk organic matter to the soil the same thing will happen.
If you dump concentrated fertilizer on microbes will it kill them? Yes, but microbes have a doubling time on the order of a few hours so when the fertilizer is diluted enough by soil water the microbial growth rate will increase and quickly replace that portion of the population that was killed on contact (as long as there is also organic matter in the soil to feed the microbes). Stunting the microbial growth might actually benfit the plants because it give their roots a chance to take up the nutrients while the microbes are inactivated. Otherwise it is a free for all for the nutrients. Microbial populations die off twice a year anyway, mid summer when the soil dries out, and winter. They produce and leave behind exudates that bind the soil particles so it is important that their populations build up and stay high for part of the year, but killing off a portion of the population for a couple of days by dumping blue juice on them is not the end of the world.
As for taste and quality...recent studies have shown that the nutritional difference between organic and traditional commercial produce is insignificant. Handling and storage of commercial produce has a great deal to do with flavor, and growth characteristics/flavor (big plants low flavor) have to do with the NPK ratios of the fertilizer. Miracle Grow has many different formulations. You will not get huge sprawling plants using a bloom booster formula, but if you over do it with organic bloodmeal (high nitrogen) you might. If there is enough organic matter in the soil much of the synthetic fertilizer will be quickly taken up by microbes and then re released as "organic" fertilizer over time. Using synthetic fertilizer in the garden is not like using it for hydroponics.
I am not against organic gardening. The situation is not black or white. It consists of shades of gray both for organic and inorganic gardening.
My bottom line is, the miracle gro I used stunted the growth of my sunflowers(the flower itself) and prevented my dad's tomatos from producing but a few tomatos per plant(in order to feed the leaves). My other flowers, which I grew after I stopped using miracle gro, didn't have these problems, and everyone I know who grew tomatos organically had larger producing plants. That's enough for me not to use synthetic chemicals ever again.
Besides, do you really think your plant is asking for a man made chemical? Or for natural food it expects?
Besides, do you really think your plant is asking for a man made chemical? Or for natural food it expects?
I think that the plant is going to take in the "inorganic" ions that its physiology is designed to use and it can't tell what the origin of those ions are. It can't tell if the nitrate ion it needs came from lightening striking atmospheric nitrogen and oxygen molecules to bond them, or from a man made machine that creates nitrate more or less the same way, or if the nitrate came from a succession of bacterial species changing ammonia into nitrite then into nitrate. Its still a nitrate ion.
Miracle Grow fertilizers have been on the market for over fifty years. I suspect that if they were as harmful to plant growth/vegetable productivity and soil health as many organic gardeners seem to think that the company/fertilizer formulas would not have lasted this long (and 90% of all gardens in America would be sterile dirt). But the truth of the matter is that during those fifty years Miracle Grow and similar fertilizers have been responsible for most if not all of the state fair blue ribbon and world record vegetables, award winning orchids and roses etc. Scientists at universities and in the private sector concentrate on these methods not because they are inherently evil people but because the methods are state of the art in enhancing plant growth and productivity. Organic technology is fighting tooth and nail to come up to that level. And now that organic farms have been around a while they are seeing their own long term soil/environmental problems such as phosphorus and potassium approaching toxic levels due to manure applications needed to supply nitrogen year after year.
About the only clear cut reason organic fertilizers are theoretically better than mineral fertilizers is that they do not directly require fossil fuels in their manufacture (but commercial organic fertilizers do require fossil fuels for processing, packaging, and transportation). Any other arguements boil down to how responsibly/irresponsibly mineral fertilizers are used.
Miracle Grow fertilizers have been on the market for over fifty years. I suspect that if they were as harmful to plant growth/vegetable productivity and soil health as many organic gardeners seem to think that the company/fertilizer formulas would not have lasted this long (and 90% of all gardens in America would be sterile dirt). But the truth of the matter is that during those fifty years Miracle Grow and similar fertilizers have been responsible for most if not all of the state fair blue ribbon and world record vegetables, award winning orchids and roses etc. Scientists at universities and in the private sector concentrate on these methods not because they are inherently evil people but because the methods are state of the art in enhancing plant growth and productivity. Organic technology is fighting tooth and nail to come up to that level. And now that organic farms have been around a while they are seeing their own long term soil/environmental problems such as phosphorus and potassium approaching toxic levels due to manure applications needed to supply nitrogen year after year.
About the only clear cut reason organic fertilizers are theoretically better than mineral fertilizers is that they do not directly require fossil fuels in their manufacture (but commercial organic fertilizers do require fossil fuels for processing, packaging, and transportation). Any other arguements boil down to how responsibly/irresponsibly mineral fertilizers are used.
Not to nit pick or anything, but 50 years ago we didn't have the medical knowledge to even notice these things. We didn't hunt for cancer as much as we do now, we didn't know the links between chemicals and ilness, and we just assumed things were fine. Remember, it was only in the 90's that we took lead out of our gas(which poisoned millions of Americans). They survived for over fifty years because people just didn't know any better. We didn't know then that it was destroying our lakes and rivers, that took time to find out.TZ -OH6 wrote: Miracle Grow fertilizers have been on the market for over fifty years. I suspect that if they were as harmful to plant growth/vegetable productivity and soil health as many organic gardeners seem to think that the company/fertilizer formulas would not have lasted this long
I for one have no problem with MG It seems to work for a lot of gardeners. Don't get me wrong here I don't think it does damage. I have used it in a pinch when it is obvious a plant is in need like part way through fruiting and is running low on fertilizer . That being said I have went to vermicomposting. Now there is Miracle Grow. I tried them side by side in the garden. Worm castings seemed superior of coarse I am some prejudicial (My worm poo) and it was not a real test. certainly no control LOL.
Curt
Curt
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MysticGardener67
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LOL This is taking on a nearly political bent, the liberal organic purists vs. the conservative better-living-through-chemistry types. 
I guess I am a garden libritarian... Most ofthe time using organic techniques (nothing ferts longterm like good compost, veggie or manure) but then there are times when nothing gets the job done as effectavly as chemicals.
Miracle gro and other similar products aren't really meant to improve already good soil. they are meant to provide a quick fix in poor soil conditions or in situations where there is a limited supply of soil nutrients, such as containers or as a stopgap measure until other methods to improve soil conditions are in place.
I do use Miracle grow type products with good results when growing in containers, such as tomatos and with my roses because they are such heavy feeders and at a reduced strength to feed my seedlings after thier first 'bump up' from flats to pots. I have likewise not found any product better at keeping my houseplants happy, again at a less than reccomended dose.
I have also found mircale grow products at a VERY reduced dose to be an effective hydro food. And so very much less expensive than tha hydro ferts branded especially for hydroponics.
@TZ, I suspect what happenned was an accidental nitrogen overdose with the sunflowers and tomatos. I am making the assumtion that you are a very good gardener and that your soil nutritional properties are close to ideal. So when you applied the miracle grow, you caused a nitrogen overdose. I wouldn't be supprised either if there weren't signs of other nutrient OD's as well.
Typical amature or n00b gardeners generally have not had the time or experience to know how to improve their soil in the better organic way. They want that quiick and easy fix so the soluble chemical ferts have a nice solid niche.
I guess I am a garden libritarian... Most ofthe time using organic techniques (nothing ferts longterm like good compost, veggie or manure) but then there are times when nothing gets the job done as effectavly as chemicals.
Miracle gro and other similar products aren't really meant to improve already good soil. they are meant to provide a quick fix in poor soil conditions or in situations where there is a limited supply of soil nutrients, such as containers or as a stopgap measure until other methods to improve soil conditions are in place.
I do use Miracle grow type products with good results when growing in containers, such as tomatos and with my roses because they are such heavy feeders and at a reduced strength to feed my seedlings after thier first 'bump up' from flats to pots. I have likewise not found any product better at keeping my houseplants happy, again at a less than reccomended dose.
I have also found mircale grow products at a VERY reduced dose to be an effective hydro food. And so very much less expensive than tha hydro ferts branded especially for hydroponics.
@TZ, I suspect what happenned was an accidental nitrogen overdose with the sunflowers and tomatos. I am making the assumtion that you are a very good gardener and that your soil nutritional properties are close to ideal. So when you applied the miracle grow, you caused a nitrogen overdose. I wouldn't be supprised either if there weren't signs of other nutrient OD's as well.
Typical amature or n00b gardeners generally have not had the time or experience to know how to improve their soil in the better organic way. They want that quiick and easy fix so the soluble chemical ferts have a nice solid niche.