Which of these is better for starting seeds?

[garden5]

Johnny's seeds sells some pretty nice multi-cell flats, which are exactly what I have been wanting for starting my peppers and tomatos. I will also be starting some onions and, possibly some squash.

They sell a variety of flats, from 288 to 50 cells per flat. I would assume that that outside dimensions of the flats remains the same and the cells just increase or decrease in size. You can check them out here [url]https://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/subcategory.aspx?category=292&subcategory=325&source=googlee_seed_starting&ct=cg&gclid=CJ6Bu5-0j50CFVRM5QodwDgT8A&scommand=page&qstateid=5a25ff8c-b38d-46e9-9cce-4ec23a6d7782&rbc=categorystring&rbv=Tools%2c+Equipment+%26+Supplies%3a+Seed+Starting+Supplies%3a+Cell+Flats&sp=1[/url]

My problem is this: I am low on space and want to have as many cell to a flat as possible, but they recommend the 78 cell flat for peppers, the 50 cell for tomatos/squash/melons.

I only want to by one set of flats. Do you think their ratings are accurate?

What are the most cells per flat do you think I can use for my starting ( I can do with out the squash starts if need be)?

I think my tomatos will be my limiting factor in this case. I know that I should get another set of flats for my onions, but as I said, I am short on space and don't need that many flats (the quantity is 5 per pack)

Thanks for any advice and for helping me decide.

[nes]

The size of the cell they suggest depends on how large you want your transplants before setting them out. There is nothing wrong with going a size up (or less cells) except it's a 'waste of space' (as in if you're growing commercially you could fit more into a smaller area)

Just remember you don't actually need an entire 50-cell flat for tomatoes unless you WANT 50 tomato plants, which is a WHOLE LOT OF TOMAOTES!!

If you germinate your seeds first, or just sow heavily in the cells then thin that will work better.

I'm not sure how big your family/garden/vegetable needs are but I go with 2 50 cell flats, should give you lots of room to work with! IF you want to start all those guys indoors. From my research it is un-necessary to start peppers, squash & melons indoors because you won't get an extra growth then you would if you started outdoors.

[hendi_alex]

"IF you want to start all those guys indoors. From my research it is un-necessary to start peppers, squash & melons indoors because you won't get an extra growth then you would if you started outdoors."

I used to believe that, until I experimented with cucumbers and squash this year. My cucumbers and squash came off a full month before my direct seeded plants. Now I did start those seeds in relatively large, deep containers. Also moved the containers out in the sunlight on any sunny, warm days. I'll definitely start early cukes and squash again this year, but will start about twice as many as last year.

I always follow the transplants with a batch of direct seeded, as soon as the soil temperature gets warm enough. That provides for a succession of plants hitting full production at different times.

[applestar]

It's all very well to say you want to use these cell seed starters because you don't have room, but don't forget that you'll have to start tomatoes and peppers 6~8 weeks ahead of planting time, and that during that time, these seedlings are going to GROW. You'll need to up-pot as they grow so as not to stress the root system and grow good transplants. You'll need at least 4X the growing space by the time the seedlings are ready to plant in the ground, and although towards the last 2 or 3 weeks, you''ll be taking them outside to harden off, depending on the weather conditions, you'll need to bring them back inside.

Like Alex implied, curcurbits don't like their roots cramped and best transplants will be grown with plenty of root room. If you can't do that, you might as well direct sow when the weather and soil are ideal. Also, they only need 3~4 weeks to grow to transplant size.

One of the hardest things when growing seedlings/transplants under lights, I found, is to maintain the tops of the foliage at uniform level so the lights can be hung as close (1~3 inches) to the tops as possible. It's even harder to do this when plants at various stages of growth are in the same flat.

[hendi_alex]

In general seed flats don't suit my needs. I'm a greedy gardener, trying to extend the season at most every opportunity. Those baby cells in seed starter trays are fine for starting seeds 4-6 weeks before the last frost. But if you want to really jump the season, then starting seeds two to three months early gives large often blooming or fuiting sized plants before they even go into the ground.

I start many of my seeds (tomatoes, bell pepper, egg plant for ex.) in community pots. When the plants develop their first true leaves, they are moved into individual three inch pots, and eventually moved into one gallon nursery pots. My larges tomato transplants that are started from seed in December or January make it all the way up to 3 gal or 5 gal nursery pots. Cukes and squash are started six to eight weeks early and are direct seeded into the one gallon sized nursery pots. All of this takes a good bit of space and lots of logistics as they are moved back and forth from sun to house or greenhouse on sunny days. But for me, it is worth the effort. We have had a contuous supply of tomatoes since mid April, when most folks in this zone eight location don't harvest before late June or early July.

I do have a greenhouse and a large sun room, so space is not too much of a problem except in the early spring when transplants take up so much room in their large pots. In later spring, plants often spend the night outside in our two portable cold frames, when the night temperature is staying above 40 degrees. Later, the tomatoes outgrow those frames however, and then it back and forth between outdoors and inside the house once again.

What the heck, maybe I'll just go ahead and plant a few of next year's tomato transplants this week. They will be really large by the time next spring rolls around!

[gixxerific]

I'm not the greatest at growing seedling but I prefer to start out in at least 3 in. pots. Those little cells are too small for me they need to be transplanted shortly after germination. So why not start them out big to begin with. I have enough room for that. My main problem with seedling is my own neglect. I have kids and a life that sometimes helps me to not have time for them.

Whatever you do I would not use peat pots, I had big problems with them this year. They started growing mold on them and they dry out WAY too fast. Plus they are not reusable.

[hendi_alex]

I neglected to menition that I do recycle the trays from my annual plant purchases to start flowers and other plants that we are not in such a hurry to jump the season with. We generally start those plants in flats with somewhat large cells however.

[rainbowgardener]

Well I start a ton of stuff from seed every winter and I do start everything in the cells, planted thickly, several seeds per little cells, just to save space, especially for ones that need to be started with bottom heat. I only run heat pads under a couple of trays and I don't want to do more, re the electricity use. So I start them in the cells. As soon as they get 1-2 pair of true leaves, I transplant them to be one per cell (often meaning moving them off the heat pad). As soon as they get to be a few inches tall I move them into 3 inch pots.

So my answer is, you can start anything in the little cells, if you are willing to move it into a bigger space as soon as it outgrows the little one. Everything I grow from seed is transplanted at least three times, the two above and into its finally growing space. I do it carefully and they always seem grateful for the extra space (spread right out into it) and not set back by the transplanting at all.

And I agree, do NOT use peat pots. I have a collection of plastic ones that I reuse year after year. Lots fewer problems with damping off, mold, mildew etc.

[garden5]

Thanks for all your input, some pretty good points.

nes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:26 am Post subject:
The size of the cell they suggest depends on how large you want your transplants before setting them out. There is nothing wrong with going a size up (or less cells) except it's a 'waste of space' (as in if you're growing commercially you could fit more into a smaller area)

Just remember you don't actually need an entire 50-cell flat for tomatoes unless you WANT 50 tomato plants, which is a WHOLE LOT OF TOMAOTES!! Very Happy

If you germinate your seeds first, or just sow heavily in the cells then thin that will work better.

I'm not sure how big your family/garden/vegetable needs are but I go with 2 50 cell flats, should give you lots of room to work with! Smile IF you want to start all those guys indoors. From my research it is un-necessary to start peppers, squash & melons indoors because you won't get an extra growth then you would if you started outdoors.

I started about that many this year actually.

I stared them in potato-salad containers with holes in the bottom. I had quite a few in each container, so I began to put some into individual cells in flower 6-packs as the packs became available. Unfortunately, some never made it into their own cells. These plants remained smaller than the plant that were transplanted.

When the plants were planted, they were about 2in. to 4in. tall and did quite well with about a 70% survival ratio. The stronger plants had about a 100% survival ratio.

I plan on starting tomatos about 8 weeks before the plant time and keeping them in their cells the whole time. I figure that they probably will be stronger that they were this year. Some seedlings barely had their first true leaves when they were planted!

As for transplants not getting that much of a head start, from my experiences in my gardening zone, I have to disagree. I started peppers from seed (later than I should have), and I planted some plants from the store. The seedlings were small when planted, but the plants were about 1ft. tall. The result? I got peppers from both, but I got many many more from the larger transplants than from my seeds. I attribute my small transplants to late starting and crowding (something I hope the cells will prevent to some degree). Also, onions, when started from seed, must be started about mid-February in my area to be planted sometime in April.

When you order from Johnny's, you get 5 flats to a pack. I'd like to get a set of smaller celled packs and a set of larger celled packs. One for onions, one for tomatos,peppers, etc. But since I have neither the need nor the space for 10 flats, I am going to compromise and get a set of flats with cell size I can use with all my starts. I would like to go with the 78 cell pack (which is rated for peppers) because it would suit my needs better than a 50 cell pack (which is rated for tomatos). I am just concerned that the cells might be too small for tomatos. It is hard to determine the cell size from the pictures on the site, and they give no dimensions.

I admire your set-up, hendi_alex, but I currently do not have the space to re-pot or pot-up anything, though in the future I would like to.

Thanks again, everyone for your advice. Great gardening.

[promethean_spark]

I bought a large box of 3.5" pots and use them for most everything. In early spring I start tomatoes, basil and peppers at 5, 9 or 16 to a pot and divide them into their own individual pots when their leaves start touching. Then they're okay until they are about 9" tall. For the squash, one pot is good for one seedling.

This is nice because you can separate the plants easily - a single tray with many types/species will invariably have conflicts in water, light and temperature requirements.

I have plastic trays that each hold 18 pots to make them convenient to handle.

[garden5]

I bought a large box of 3.5" pots and use them for most everything. In early spring I start tomatoes, basil and peppers at 5, 9 or 16 to a pot and divide them into their own individual pots when their leaves start touching. Then they're okay until they are about 9" tall. For the squash, one pot is good for one seedling.

This is nice because you can separate the plants easily - a single tray with many types/species will invariably have conflicts in water, light and temperature requirements.

I have plastic trays that each hold 18 pots to make them convenient to handle.

That is a pretty nice method. It is similar to what I did last year with my plastic deli containers.

The reason I want to go with flats is each plant will be able to grow in its own individual cell from the very beginning. I know that the plants should be potted-up to something the size of what you are using, but I feel they will do better than last year's starts even if I do not pot them up. Last year my starts (most of them) stayed in groups in containers and were only about 2-3in. tall when they were planted.

As for water competition, I plan to have different plants in each flat.

Here is something I just thought of: Do you think that a greenhouse would have old or surplus flats they would give away free?! This would be a pretty nice thing for those who had their garden budgets cut by the economy.

[gixxerific]

Here is something I just thought of: Do you think that a greenhouse would have old or surplus flats they would give away free?! This would be a pretty nice thing for those who had their garden budgets cut by the economy.

It doesn't hurt to call around. I would like to do the same.

[applestar]

My county has a recycling program for hard plastics used for nursery pots. If you go to the drop-off location, you'll find people dropping off, as well as picking up.