Soil. Problematic soil

[JimL]

After years doing no gardening at all, this summer I bought "landscaping soil" for my newly built 4 x 10 box. I've mentioned issues with it here.

I just ran a set of soil tests using the Ace Hardware kit. Even after adding fertilizer during the growing season so far, it seems every element, N, P and K, come out very low.

Now my problem is: what do I do next? I have no clue how to quantify a build up. (I have neither the energy, the time nor the inclination to go organic.)

Any suggestions on how to calculate the fertilizer needed?

[rainbowgardener]

I am an organic gardener, so can't help with the question you asked. Maybe one of the farmer types that's used to dealing with synthetic fertilizers will come by and answer it.

Just thought I'd mention that until a few weeks ago I was working 45-50 hrs a week in my office (I finally saw the light and cut down my hours! ) So all my gardening on my 1/3 of an acre was done in the time left after that, family responsibilities, church and community responsibilities. You will see that in my posts I talk about the "lazy" (ie low time commitment) way to do things. IMHO organic IS the low time commitment/ low energy way to do things. Get the processes going and let nature do the work! You may have to put a little thought and time into getting started, but then the organic gardener can sit back, while the chemical gardener keeps working and working, adding more of this and more of that, over and over again to compensate for all the natural processes that aren't working any more.

[stella1751]

Rainbowgardener wrote: IMHO organic IS the low time commitment/ low energy way to do things.

I wanted to say that. I'm glad Rainbowgardener did. With organic gardening, you don't HAVE to fertilize; the compost will slowly release what your plants require. All you really have to do is water.

Some of us organic gardeners like to make our own compost and our own fertilizers, but others don't. It's probably a matter of growing a tomato that is 1/8" wider in diameter than the one you would grow with just compost, but it's our version of a good time. If you are looking for an inexpensive time-saver, buy four to five bags of compost, spread them on top of your 4' x 10' bed, work them in to the depth of, say, 10", set out your plants, top-dress (mulch) with another nice layer of bagged compost, and sit back and watch the plants prosper

Synthetic gardening is considerably more work, I think. With synthetic gardening, you HAVE to fertilize regularly. You have no other option. Worse, you lose control over the little things, like how much N, P, or K you choose to use. You are given a set ratio predetermined by the chemical fertilizer manufacturers, and you can't vary it based upon your soil's individual needs.

IMHO, synthetic gardening weakens the soil. The synthetic gardeners of my acquaintance encounter disease more frequently than I do. I can't cite any sources, just personal experience, but I think organic plants are more resistant to disease and fungi. My next door neighbor, same identical environment as mine, has bugs (!) and powdery mildew and unhappy, low-producing plants. (She's growing squash, but last week she asked me for some of mine.)

I asked her the other day ago what she used for fertilizer. She said Miracle Gro Organic.

Anyway, back to Rainbowgardener's statement:

IMHO organic IS the low time commitment/ low energy way to do things.

Ditto

[freedhardwoods]

I would probably be one of the farmer types that rainbow gardener suggested. For a 4x10 area I would agree with adding compost although I would add some fertilizer also.

Worse, you lose control over the little things, like how much N, P, or K you choose to use. You are given a set ratio predetermined by the chemical fertilizer manufacturers, and you can't vary it based upon your soil's individual needs.

I disagree with what NPK ratios you can use. I buy my fertilizer in 50 lb bags and mix my own ratios to suit what I am feeding. I have never tried to buy a small amount of fertilizer before so I don't know what is available on a small scale.

[JimL]

Rainbowgardener wrote: IMHO organic IS the low time commitment/ low energy way to do things.

I wanted to say that. I'm glad Rainbowgardener did. With organic gardening, you don't HAVE to fertilize; the compost will slowly release what your plants require. All you really have to do is water.

Some of us organic gardeners like to make our own compost and our own fertilizers, but others don't. It's probably a matter of growing a tomato that is 1/8" wider in diameter than the one you would grow with just compost, but it's our version of a good time. If you are looking for an inexpensive time-saver, buy four to five bags of compost, spread them on top of your 4' x 10' bed, work them in to the depth of, say, 10", set out your plants, top-dress (mulch) with another nice layer of bagged compost, and sit back and watch the plants prosper

Synthetic gardening is considerably more work, I think. With synthetic gardening, you HAVE to fertilize regularly. You have no other option. Worse, you lose control over the little things, like how much N, P, or K you choose to use. You are given a set ratio predetermined by the chemical fertilizer manufacturers, and you can't vary it based upon your soil's individual needs.

IMHO, synthetic gardening weakens the soil. The synthetic gardeners of my acquaintance encounter disease more frequently than I do. I can't cite any sources, just personal experience, but I think organic plants are more resistant to disease and fungi. My next door neighbor, same identical environment as mine, has bugs (!) and powdery mildew and unhappy, low-producing plants. (She's growing squash, but last week she asked me for some of mine.)

I asked her the other day ago what she used for fertilizer. She said Miracle Gro Organic.

Anyway, back to Rainbowgardener's statement:

IMHO organic IS the low time commitment/ low energy way to do things.

Ditto

LOL!

LOL!!

WHEE!

In the computer world with which I am familiar, one can find forums where the members prefer this or that software or hardware and are absolutely certain that their way is better than anybody else's way. If you ask a question outside their software/hardware best/way realm you will see a surprising array of ways of telling you, _in essence_, that you shouldn't have asked that question - that you don't really want what you said you want or that you should go figure it out for yourself or go do something else.

This worthless dirt I bought was touted as wonderful, organic, composted whiz bang. I don't have years for monkey business, regardless of how wonderful it is and how much you can sit and watch it bless itself.

[stella1751]

Jiml wrote:

In the computer world with which I am familiar, one can find forums where the members prefer this or that software or hardware and are absolutely certain that their way is better than anybody else's way. If you ask a question outside their software/hardware best/way realm you will see a surprising array of ways of telling you, _in essence_, that you shouldn't have asked that question - that you don't really want what you said you want or that you should go figure it out for yourself or go do something else.

In the post-secondary teaching world with which I am familiar, one can always find students who, no matter how clearly you express a concept, are so determined their way is the right way, they lack the ability to listen. If you deliver a precept that goes against their predetermined notion of how things should be or how Mrs. Binky taught them in the fifth grade, they close their minds and their ears to the material being conveyed. These students invariably fail. I feel sorry for them. There is no greater block to personal growth than a closed, narrow mind.

Generally, I tell them not to ask a question if they aren't prepared to accept the answer. The second time it happens, I just ignore them.

LOL!
LOL!!
WHEE!

[freedhardwoods]

Any suggestions on how to calculate the fertilizer needed?

Nobody can answer that question with the info you provided. The only way to calculate how much fertilizer you need is to have a reputable company do a complete soil analysis. You have to know how much is lacking before you can know how much to add.

I don't know how far I would trust the dimestore kit you bought. Your "worthless" soil might not be as bad as that cheap kit is telling you, especially since you said you have already added fertilizer. Adding only 1 lb each of actual N, P, and K to your tiny plot would work out to over 1000 lbs per acre. That is an extremely high rate and is 4 or 5 times more than most farmers use.

I've mentioned issues with it here.

I don't remember reading about the issues you mention, but farming and gardening does not have cut and dried answers. Many times when a farmer buys a new plot of ground it will take them a few years of experimenting before they settle on a certain way of fertilizing. If you don't have time to figure out what your plot is going to need why did you start it?

[cynthia_h]

Just an observation that "landscaping soil"--depending on where you bought it and who packaged/labelled it--may not have been meant for "gardening soil."

I know; sounds weird. But stranger things have happened in the...ah...home improvement business.

Good luck getting it all sorted out.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9